More AI head bashing stuff...

[Dermmy]

...a dim and distant bell is ringing (might be the bicycle reference) to a problem I have on a session in my Clovis Sub route when for no apparent reason all seems lost. The fix in that situation is Stop > Wait x seconds > Recommence Schedule. I don't have 'Driver' open in front of me, they may not be the exact commands, but they are darn close. The 'Stop' command appears to clear whatever is befuddling the AI in the Clovis situation and might be worth a try....

Andy

 

[builder300544]

Hi,

I.m a bit rusty with 2004 but a couple of things I have found make A1 workings better.

1) I notice from the picture that the 'point indicators' appear to be behind the junction. The sequence should be signal - point indicator (the green/red thing)- junction spline.

2) Have you reduced the trackmarks radii to 0.

Regards, John

 

[Midland]

Noel - I've tried it with all sorts of different locos including a single diesel (see above); same result.

Andy - That's a good idea; I usually place a Wait for... 5 seconds between each command but I'll try your Stop suggestion.

John - Looks can be deceptive; all my points are configured in the required manner (signal, lever, spline). I would dearly love to reduce the marker radius; please tell me how to do this and I'll give it a whirl.




Cheers

Nix

 

[stagecoach]

May have some Good news for you but it is also bad news. Playing around with the route there was only one thing that I had not tried and that was the junctions themselves. I removed the junctions and fixed track you had and just put in the normal basic auran map produced track junction. The Garrat then ran correctly. I dont have all the assets you have on the route but enough to see that the junctions seem to be the problem.
Hope this might help or a least direct you to what I see as the problem area. Not checked out individual bits so it might only be one item like the invisible track or the fixed track.

keith

 

[builder300544]

Hi,

To adjust trigger radius, enter trackmark mode and open advanced at the bottom. You have the choice of Get - Set - Adjust radius.

I apologise if this only applies to 2006.

regards, John

 

[stagecoach]

Further investigation shows that if I delete the object junction it works ok. The invisible track below it then needs to connect it to the MP wood track where the gaps have appeared due to the deletion of the junction. Running the Garrat it will travel in the correct direction after it picks up the brake van. The fault if there is one lies in the connection of the object junction and the track and the way the train sees it somehow. Think this is a problem that might be passed on to the creator of the junction.

Best I can do for you.

 

[Midland]

Keith, that really is good news/unbelievably vile news! :hehe:

I adore Andi06's junctions and they just look so good compared to the simply awful standard spline junctions.

I'm very grateful to you for tracking down this problem. I've been mucking about all evening trying to get the sodding thing to co-operate by changing tiny little details each time and of course nothing works! It truly is head-bashing stuff!

I will contact Andy about this but I guess ultimately I may have to weigh up between getting the AI to work and having it look good. Sigh! Roll on Trainz 2050...

Incidentally thanks to everyone else too for your suggestions, I do appreciate them. In my four years of Trainzing I didn't even realise there was an 'Advanced' tab in Track Markers let alone being able to reset their radius. Now if only points were like that too...





Cheers

Nix

 

[stagecoach]

All is not lost because you could try to use then by placing them under the invisible track but not connected to it. delete the junction, join the track up, put the junction back again. Dont think anyone would spot the difference.

 

[Midland]

Update...

For your information (Keith especially) I built this part of the layout on a new board. I used signals and trackmarks as per the original but used spline junctions instead of the animated ones.

The problem still remains! :'(

It is something to do with the AI not wanting to change direction once the loco is at the other end of the train.

See this thread:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=992&page=3

(Check page 3)

Essentially Andy states that these junctions should not be responsible for this problem I'm having and I agree with him. There is something else at play here and I'm not sure what it is but it is clearly related to getting the AI to settle down to the new direction at the completion of the run around.



Cheers

Nix

 

[TSwenson]

how you "run around"

Hi everyone,

I was skimming through and got intrigued by this thread. I my dealings with our so universally loved AI driver, one of the things I use to get around some of it's (many) deficiencies is to try a different way of arriving at the same solution. Is it possible to change the steps involved in the "run-around" movement?

Hampering my abilities to help with the problem may be the difference in jargon between the UK and the USA. Am I correct in my understanding that a "guard van" is what we would refer to as a "caboose"? If so you may want "Alistair" to take some care in handling this car. Attempting to do so may change how the "run around" maneuver is performed. I suggest that you try the following:

1. Drive almost all the way through the loop so that the Guard van (caboose) is on the loop track inboard of the fouling point. Set the hand brake on the Guard van and uncouple it from the rest of the consist.
2. Pull ahead with the consist to clear the Points (switch). Change said points (throw the switch).
3. Reverse into the parallel track until the front of the locomotive clears the fouling point. Set hand brake(s) on the cars and uncouple the locomotive.
4. Pull the light locomotive forward past the points and change the points for the loop track.
5. Reverse the locomotive into the loop track and couple to the guard van.
6. Pull forward to clear the points and change them to the parallel track.
7. Reverse and couple the guard van to the consist.
8. Uncouple the locomotive from the guard van and run light to the opposite end of the consist.
9. Couple to the consist and proceed from whence the train originated.

If you need to move the consist to the mine "without" the guard van try after step 5 to run around the consist and couple so that the locomotive is between the consist and the guard van.

Have Fun.
TSwenson

 

[leswell]

Thread seems to have gone very quiet!

I still haven't resolved the issue; I've tried shortening the train length; using a different last vehicle (in case there was a problem with the NVGA scripting); splitting the job between two locos; nothing worked. The commands from when the loco attaches to the rear of the train are the ones that are causing the problem; the AI always seems to want to make the movement by going to the wrong end of the yard and of course it can't hence the snarl up.

If anyone would like to look more closely at this problem I'd be happy to send you the layout cdp file.

The situation at present is desperately frustrating.

You need huristics and G. Polya is the man to consult: http://www.math.utah.edu/~pa/math/polya.html
Although written with mathematics in mind it can be generalised to any problem such as the AI and makes a good guide to problem solving in general.

When faced with situations like this I set up experiments (1: understanding the problem) by isolating all apparently unrelated factors.

I have just been having a problem getting a steam train (with carriages) to turn round in a triange of track. It insisted on going the wrong way round the triangle defeating the object of the exercise. I even placed a further 'via' trackmark in the direct leg. It went there then backed out of this leg and got stuck. It then insisted that a junction was missing a lever! Only one junction and it had a lever. So I deleted all the triangle relaid it with levers etc and moved the train to a new start position (eliminating a part of the reverse operation it was happy with) but no a junction was still missing a lever. It turned out that the loco wished to move into an unrelated siding by two junctions before it could go across the correct junction to the trackmark. Since these siding were only 'dummy' I hadn't bothered to put levers in. Armed with this knowledge I was able to get it operating correctly but it took me a whole day of 'pfaffing about'.

I would suggest that you copy your route then eliminate all the track but the track you need for the operation and see what happens. Give the train only one way to go. Also remove aiding trackmarks (go via). If it then works start adding track back to see what happens.

Les