More 'abuse' of the DLS...

[clam1952]

I notice that all of the bad content updates for myself are from User: Trainz2007. Is this the only user that had provided the bad updates, or do I have to look for others?

Also, what is the actual harm that can be done if these updates are installed by accident?

It's just Trainz2007 or someone updating his stuff who is doing this, he or she does have a website which appears to have most of the items that are being rendered useless on the DLS.

The only problem will be for any items that are used as dependencies on routes, can't actually do any damage, in CMP they show as just pink blobs.

I just deleted the few updated items and the originals I had in CM, plenty more stuff about to replace them if needed although there were a couple of nice assets.

 

[magickmaker]

I ran into this problem myself recently. In fact, just earlier today. I was working on that russian route I'm building and updated my content. Without even thinking about it really. When I load back into the route, WHAM I've got a handful of these odd pink blobs where some cars and signs were. Took me forever to track them all down and replace them. I know, I could have used the replace tool, but they weren't all one thing.

I don't know what kinda stunt is being pulled here, but it's quickly turning my girlfriend (who is helping me with the route) and I against whoever is responsible. I don't know if it was a protest or just someone being an arse, but this kinda stuff has GOT to stop.

 

[wholbr]

Hi Everybody.

Err great. Do not release a version of anything that is the same as that made by another creator, that is irrespectfull and if the stuff was copyrighted violates copyright laws.
This is serious.

TorenHynes the argument you make in your posting has been debated numerous times over the last few weeks if not months. Auran/NP3 have decided their policy on the upgrading of assets to the standards required for 2010/09 and placed it into effect.

Therefore, if you feel that the abuse of copyright legislation has been that serious then every democratic country has a civil court system for use in such matters.

With every respect, I would suggest that you make use of those courts to test whether your grievance is valid. That would be a far better approach than re-hashing old arguments on this thread that have already been overuled by the Trainz management team.

If the cost of the above is beyond your own resources then perhaps a group of similar believing content creators could launch a joint action on the grievance.

With thanks
Bill

 

[wholbr]

Hi CaptEngland And Everybody.

@wholbr
Thanks for pointing out that it was meant to be a joke! No hard feelings.

I was more annoyed at what OverloadNZ wrote. Nice two posts from you, by the way. The only thing that I can't forgive you for is that you support M.U :hehe: (Liverpool supporter that I am). :'( (J.O.K.E.)

Back on topic.

I have noticed that not all the updated items seem to appear in the update section of trainz 2010. By this I mean that when I used CM3.3, I had more items that had been obsoleted show up, which did not show in the update section in the game. Is this just me, or have other people noticed this?

Regards.
CaptEngland (Soon to be ignored by all Man. U. fans on trainz).

that's ok CaptEngland regarding the joke as most people think I have a very warped sense of humor anyway. As for being ignored by Man.u. fans I do not think you will be ignored by very many people on this forum as I do not think there are many football fans of any description on the forum ( its a badge of quality to the likes of us)

Back on topic.
Judging by several of the postings it would seem that the " damaged" assets are forthcoming from one source. Therefore I would think that it should be fairly easy for Auran to stop whoever it is from uploading anymore assets to the DLS.

So far I have not found any in my route but I have not downloaded anything for at least the last two weeks. I was planning to have a day of updating when everything was finished.

Bill

 

[Mordin]

This is interesting but a bit confusing. So by the sounds of things someone is sabotaging stuff on the dls by some protest. That is bad but it only seems to be one road sign am I right? ( I did read the whole thread but still a bit confused). Now is it bad that poeple are buying Trainz 2010? seems like TS2010 is public enemy #1 and I hate to feel bad about something I purchased.( I did download it so I saved the planet ).
But still anyway I'm confused. I guess I am always confused but never the less confusing. Confused cause I am confused. Very confusing. Still confused .

 

[RRSignal]

No, TS2010 is far from public enemy #1, and, yeah, so far it looks like one user but several of his assets.

So far.

 

[Mordin]

No, TS2010 is far from public enemy #1, and, yeah, so far it looks like one user but several of his assets.

So far.

ah i see so it is just one person. :wave:

 

[meatloaf747]

This is interesting but a bit confusing. So by the sounds of things someone is sabotaging stuff on the dls by some protest. That is bad but it only seems to be one road sign am I right? ( I did read the whole thread but still a bit confused). Now is it bad that poeple are buying Trainz 2010? seems like TS2010 is public enemy #1 and I hate to feel bad about something I purchased.( I did download it so I saved the planet ).
But still anyway I'm confused. I guess I am always confused but never the less confusing. Confused cause I am confused. Very confusing. Still confused .

I'm confused that your so confused... confusing isn't it ??? :hehe:

Cheers, Mac...

 

[Mordin]

I'm confused that your so confused... confusing isn't it ??? :hehe:

Cheers, Mac...

I'm confused that your confused about me being confused.:hehe: It's all so confusing this confusing bussiness. But I'm getting there by British Rail but getting there.

 

[LadyWind]

This is interesting but a bit confusing. So by the sounds of things someone is sabotaging stuff on the dls by some protest. That is bad but it only seems to be one road sign am I right? ( I did read the whole thread but still a bit confused). Now is it bad that poeple are buying Trainz 2010? seems like TS2010 is public enemy #1 and I hate to feel bad about something I purchased.( I did download it so I saved the planet ).
But still anyway I'm confused. I guess I am always confused but never the less confusing. Confused cause I am confused. Very confusing. Still confused .

I have x22 sabotaged updates by Trainz2007 sitting in my Content Updater right now.

 

[Mordin]

I have x22 sabotaged updates by Trainz2007 sitting in my Content Updater right now.

That is quite bad maybe the Trainz team will see this and do something about it looks like someone may of sabotaged Trainz2007 stuff out of a get back thing. But any I hope it will get resolved.:wave:

 

[wholbr]

Hi Everybody.

I have x22 sabotaged updates by Trainz2007 sitting in my Content Updater right now.

In many ways I find myself feeling sympathy for the "pathetic" action of whoever " Trainz 2007" is. It is in every way akin to the stroke of a young child after not doing very well shouting "I do not like this game anymore" and then trying to run off with the ball.

Unfortunately he very much undermines those who have quite creditably argued the case for continued support for the earlier versions. Argued the case for not allowing others to update content originally created by them and argued against having to have a first class ticket to access content for the earlier versions.

Too many of us I am sure that those arguments have not been valid if only for the reason that we wish to see our hobby move forward with Auran/NP3 unencumbered by having to support so much of the past. It has been sad to see so many of the original content creators give up their creating talents and also leave the forum.

However, "Trainz 2007" and others like him/her are still around the forum and as seen still on the DLS. They are unable to move forward or in any way look to the future as far as Trainz is concerned. They staked everything on believing that they were bigger than Auran/NP3 and our hobby itself. They lost, and with at least one we see the resulting childish action taken as a last resort.

As stated, perhaps such pathetic stupidity is only to be taken pity on.

Bill

 

[johnwhelan]

Just to add my two cents in, I have one or two items that are very old content that I've been tempted to obsolete simply because of quality issues.

I know of another content creator who has obsoleted items to get rid of them however the older versions are still available on the DLS in history.

I'm not certain it is really abuse of the DLS to remove content in this way.

Cheerio John

 

[WindWalkr]

Just to add my two cents in, I have one or two items that are very old content that I've been tempted to obsolete simply because of quality issues.

Our take on this is: it depends on what you mean by 'obsolete'.

If you replace an older asset with an equivalent newer asset, taking care not to break compatibility for routes and sessions which may use the content, then that's completely acceptable.

If you upload an update for the sole purpose of deliberately breaking one or more existing assets, then that's considered an abuse of the system. We will take steps to correct this kind of thing.

cheers,

chris

 

[magickmaker]

Just to add my two cents in, I have one or two items that are very old content that I've been tempted to obsolete simply because of quality issues.

I know of another content creator who has obsoleted items to get rid of them however the older versions are still available on the DLS in history.

I'm not certain it is really abuse of the DLS to remove content in this way.

Cheerio John

John, I don't think the question is whether or not it's abuse to remove content through obsoleting, but more is the question of whether or not it's abuse (or just being a real total jerk) to claim you're updating an item, only to post placeholders or in the case of trainz2007, total junk.

It's kinda a case of bait and switch. In that you're being told you're getting one thing, but when you download it you find that you've got something else entirely. What's more, the way the CMP and other Content Manager systems work, if a player has the old item on their computer and they update it, then they're left with the junk on their route (as I was.)

If something is obsoleted though, from everything I've seen it would just vanish from the route. No real harm done.

Think about it like this. Imagine that one day, a software company decides that they don't like the way Microsoft is doing things. So, in protest they proclaim that they're never going to work with Microsoft again. Anyone with their program already though, should be able to use it fine. However, a couple days down the road, this small company releases an "update." Everyone has to download and install this, through their update server. Problem is once the update is installed, it renders that program they had totally useless. In fact, it not only renders that one program useless, but seven or eight more that the person didn't know the company produced.

In the end, the person who did nothing wrong ends up punished by the software company's actions. Not Microsoft who the protest was targeted at.

In the same sense, for whatever reason trainz2007 chose to make his little protest, the fact is that it's not hurting Auran one single bit. It's hurting the innocent users who have done not a single thing wrong. They're the ones having to fix the problems this user caused, and what's more his silence on the issue points to the probable fact that he very likely could care less about whom he hurts. Either that, or he didn't consider how many people would be affected by it, and now it's too late to turn back.

 

[leeferr]

......It would therefore seem very unsurprising to me that among those whose actions and opinions have been overruled and shown to be incorrect would be some who would still wish to cause disruption and argument......

I've been fairly busy lately and have just now had time to read this thread, so I'm sorry about the tardy post. I really wanted to stay out of this debate, but sometimes things are said that I have a difficult time in not replying. So here goes.

Bill, I agree with you on very little, but basically, I just ignore it; however, opinions being 'overruled' does not mean that they are incorrect, only that N3V doesn't agree with them. Issues begin when valid opinions are ignored and discounted without an open and just debate and discussion. You continue to express your opinions as statements of fact.

I'll probably be on your ignore list now if I'm not already, but that's okay. I wish you the best. I just don't agree with you which is an opinion and not necessarily right or wrong.

I will agree with the train of thought of this thread that whoever engages in such sabatoge of the DLS are demonstrating their immaturity and are not really hurting N3V, but the community as a whole.

Mike

 

[teddytoot]

I see that the offending objects are still there for unsuspecting downloaders. One point I would like to make. Although the originals are by Trainz2007, we have no way of knowing if the "update" is by the original creator or by a third party. As they have appeared after the 8 week moratorium before the "open house" it is quite possible that this is a deliberate sabotage by a third party. Only N3V know who uploaded them (at least I hope they are gathering this information; if not, the DLS could be in serious trouble) and it would be nice to see some action from them and a statement here.

 

[wholbr]

Hi leeferr And Everybody

<snip Bill, I agree with you on very little, but basically, I just ignore it; however, opinions being 'overruled' does not mean that they are incorrect, only that N3V doesn't agree with them. Issues begin when valid opinions are ignored and discounted without an open and just debate and discussion. You continue to express your opinions as statements of fact.

I'll probably be on your ignore list now if I'm not already, but that's okay. I wish you the best. I just don't agree with you which is an opinion and not necessarily right or wrong.

I will agree with the train of thought of this thread that whoever engages in such sabatoge of the DLS are demonstrating their immaturity and are not really hurting N3V, but the community as a whole.Mike snip>

leeferr I have far too much respect for you and the postings you have made in the past to ever think about adding new to my ignore list. (In fact I do not have an ignore list).
I believe it was a famous American who stated “I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend with my life your right to say it”. As we are seeing on the international news everyday, far more people in the world now want freedom of expression which is something we all take for granted without realizing the value of that freedom.

I would also agree with you that the use of the word “overruled”in my posting was not appropriate and a better phrase would have been “considered and placed aside”. As I stated in my last posting many like yourself have very eloquently described alternatives to the policy that Auran/NP3 have now decided to follow. However, that policy is now in place and I feel that now is the time to place those arguments aside and move forward.

The DLS would seem to be “under attack” from at least one person who would look to damage Trainz and our hobby as best they can. Therefore I hope all sides in the past arguments can now all join together in thoroughly condemning that action (as you have) for the future of Trainz the DLS and all users.

Bill

 

[NikkiA]

I believe it was a famous American who stated “I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend with my life your right to say it”.

Off topic, but...

No.

That would be a quote oft incorrectly attributed to Voltaire (Famous frenchman), but that was actually 'said' by Evelyn Beatrice Hall (very unfamous english woman) who wrote it in a biography of Voltaire, under the pen-name of S.G Tallentyre (because 100 years ago women weren't allowed to be authors).

Edit: The phrase you're thinking of, which was the inspiration for Hall's statement, was probably this phrase, written by Thomas Jefferson:

"To preserve the freedom of the human mind...and the freedom of the press, every spirit should be ready to devote itself to martyrdom; for as long as we may think as we will and speak what we think, the condition of man will proceed in improvement."

However, Hall's statement is much much more quotable and has clearer intent.

 

[wholbr]

Off topic, but...

No.

That would be a quote oft incorrectly attributed to Voltaire (Famous frenchman), but that was actually 'said' by Evelyn Beatrice Hall (very unfamous english woman) who wrote it in a biography of Voltaire, under the pen-name of S.G Tallentyre (because 100 years ago women weren't allowed to be authors).

off-topic, but

correct

I stand before the forum rightly chastised for making an incorrect statement with reference to a high point of English history.

I have no excuse for not examining that my statement was correct:'(

a very humble

Bill