Making content for trs2009. General Discussion

[Barry]

Making content for trs2009.

Just general discussion and not detailed.
It would be interesting to read just general details of the version config that CM2 decides to set.
Example if set to 2009 version and it decides to revert to an earlier version what version does the CM2 put on it.
I don't have trainz at present but with tc3 I think the version was 2.8. for the few drivable and static items I made for myself, although what it set seemed to fluctuate depending on how I set the config.

So if making content for 2009 how are you getting on and is normal mapping essential if set to 2009 version in config., now that the full 2009 trs is finally available.
Just general discussion.

Barry

 

[whitepass]

OK normal mapping is NOT required for 09 somethings like a sign do not need one. Normal mapping makes things look better and run faster.
As far as I know CCP will give 2.9 and CM2 will also give 2.9.

 

[jeffmorris]

Is normal mapping NOT required for all types of content for TS2009? Some things such as NYCTA subway cars have smooth surfaces.

 

[VinnyBarb]

Is normal mapping NOT required for all types of content for TS2009? Some things such as NYCTA subway cars have smooth surfaces.

If you think an item does not need a normal map, why use one. On the other hand, say your subway car has door handles, signs, door surrounds, grills, steps, rust stains, strips and dividers, under car items like air brakes, air conditioners, pumps, etc., these items do look a lot better created with normal maps. Just my observations and opinion .

Re the version number, my guess is as seen in the beta versions, items checked with CM2 will be left alone by CM2 as a creator done these. How else can you install TRS04, 06 etc. items, CM2 will tell you if an item is faulty or not, not necessarily a fault with the config.txt or version number in it. I am waiting for my DVD version, hence I can not tell you about the final version but it should be similar there.

*Edit: CM2 will automatically change some slight faults in the config.txt but AFAIK will not touch the version number. Say you left a blank space in front of its user name, CM2 will correct this when installing the item. Similar corrections with other small mistakes in the config.txt

Cheers

VinnyBarb

 

[jeffmorris]

I still don't know how to create normal maps. I tried Blender but it's harder to use than GMAX. You can't teach an old dog new tricks - this applies to me.

 

[Barry]

I still don't know how to create normal maps. I tried Blender but it's harder to use than GMAX. You can't teach an old dog new tricks - this applies to me.

Jeff I am the same as you, but have used Blender for about 6 years or so and made all my content for sailing simulator with it and same or similar blend files will be used for trainz.

It's not compulsory apparently to learn normal mapping but I think it would be a case of finding a good tutorial eventually then working your way through it bit by bit if you think you need normal mapping.

Same with animation exporting from Blender to get it into trainz.
I can animate in Blender but again I would have to work through a tutorial myself as think I am more interested in animation than spending much time on normal maps.

Take your time and gain the information step by step....and quite an old dog myself...

I am sure if you get stuck on something with Blender there would be a few who would help on these forums if you detail the problem.
Same as learning to use Blender as there are many tutorials on it ...but have taken the basic ones off my website now.

Barry

 

[xphantomx]

Well I don't know anything about what you all are all talking about as far as graphics software and making content, I just hope that you content creaters take advantage of this TRS09 graphic engine and make some really cool detailed loco's like the new UP along with rolling stock, buildings etc.

I would hope content creaters will do so or this game won't look any better than TRS06 graphically.

 

[jjqburch]

Personally I find normal mapping simple, you can leave it until the end when your textures are complete and then add the normal. The photoshop nvidia plugin is straight forward to use and getting the 3d effect to show up in Max9 is easy, I just find having the DX effects on slows things down a bit. I'd say dealing with opacity and alpha layers give me more grey hairs.

I think creating content in max or gmax is the easy part, the hardest thing is getting it into trainz and looking correctly. Guessing which tags are required in CCP is not easy and the repetetiveness of starting trainz/cm2 over and over again to test your item is gruelling. The new exporters are great though, and make life a bit easier.

Jonny.

 

[martinvk]

As a long to fan and user of GMax, I was delighted to discover that an old dog (GMax, not me) can be taught new tricks. By installing the 3DS Max4 exporters and making a few minor configuration modifications, GMax can apply bump maps to objects too. Using the NVidia plug-in to create the bump maps is also very easy. I do it in PhotoShop Elements.

The effect can be very subtle but even on simple surfaces, there is a visible difference. Instead of having dull, matte textures, they are bright and lively with slight variations depending on the light angle.

 

[jjqburch]

Yeh, Gmax can actually be set up to work quite well, the lack of a renderer annoys me though. The new exporters are a real godsend.

Jonny

 

[VinnyBarb]

I still don't know how to create normal maps. I tried Blender but it's harder to use than GMAX. You can't teach an old dog new tricks - this applies to me.

It is relatively simple depending what you mean. Say you would like to create a normal map of your main texture, you load it into your favorite paint program and make a grey(gray) scale coloured map of this colour texture. Which means, this is a texture map in shades of white-gray-black. This usually can be done under the "color" tag in PaintShopPro but it is similar in most other paint programs.

You d/load this ATI Normal Map Generator Zip file from my web site here (you may have to right click the link and "save as..." or open this link in a new browser window) and unzip it. This is the standalone ATI/AMD NormalMapGenerator utility which does not need a paint program to make normal maps.

Operate this unzipped utility's exe, point it to your grey scale TGA texture map you created earlier from your coloured texture and wonders over wonders, this utility creates a normal map from your grey scale texture to the same place/folder where your greyscale texture is located unter a slightly different name. It works with TGAs only but if one uses JPGs or whatever for creating, it is easy to change this to any other picture format wanted in any respectable paint program.

On pages 100-104 or thereabouts in the old TRS04 CCG it tells you how to use normal maps in GMax/3DS Max and how to install and configure the 3DS Max 4.2 plugin (from the Download pages in the Dev's forum), which also works in and with GMax.

Then proceed to apply your diffuse texture in conjunction with your normal map (in GMax's or 3DS Max's Material Editor) to your creation as per the instructions in the CCG pages above as you normally do the texturing. Make sure of the naming of your textures in the material editor as per the CCG pages above and/or the Normal Map naming in the Wiki in the Dev's forum. This information is buried VERY deep in the Wiki but if you follow the "modeling" and the textures/normal map links there, you will eventually find this. There is also info there of how to use Gloss, Reflection etc. there to fill you in some more.

This in general is it with normal maps, now if you really want a Normal Map Creator with options to adjust height, RBG channels etc., then download the NVidia Normal Map plugin for PhotoShop, install it there if you have PS. I also used this plugin in an older version of PaintShopPro, I think it was V6 from several years ago where it worked. Apparently this NVidia plugin does not work in later versions of PSP as other people mentioned this, I use an old version of PhotoShop for my Normal Map creations with the NVidia plugin.

If you really want to be adventurous and would like to experiment further with the effect of your normal map creations, then you can adjust the contrast and/or brightness some more or even SHARPEN your greyscale texture a little bit of your erstwhile created greyscale texture for creating the normal map, the Wiki or the CCG explicitly says not to do this but my discovery spirit let me break this rule . But use this with CAUTION as you might get some very undesirable 3D effects in game after exporting, experiment, experiment, experiment

But this is usually not necessary, I just fiddled around with adjusting contrast etc. to see what can be done with normal maps. Also, if anyone has problems differentiating BUMP maps from NORMAL maps, they are the same thing, only NOW they are called Normal maps. Hence you load a NORMAL map into GMax/3DS Max's Material Editor's BUMP map slot. It makes sense

Another thing, to save you making a blown out Byte size of your created CDP, caused by too large texture maps one has to use now, you can resize (shrink) your Normal map by 50% (still has to be in a power of 2) for hardly any difference in the 3D effect you will see in the game after exporting. Like say, your main texture is 1024x1024 pixels and your Normal map can be 512x512 pixels in size. Try it and see for yourself

Any more questions? Just ask here :wave:

Cheers

VinnyBarb

 

[Barry]

VinnyBarb

I have save your post for reference.
Using Blender and will find out the details for normal mapping related to it but useful hint about reducing size of bump map to half.
Tried the download from your site to see what it does and it makes a speckled pattern of the greyscale.
But if there is an easy method with Blender may start using it but will leave that for later and when I see how trs2009 behaves and cm2.

Thanks

Barry

 

[VinnyBarb]

VinnyBarb

.... it makes a speckled pattern of the greyscale.....

Thanks

Barry

Is this picture you produced sort of bluish with perhaps some red and green speckles in it? If it is so, yes this is the normal map made from your grey scale texture.

You are welcome

Cheers

VinnyBarb

 

[Barry]

Well I don't know anything about what you all are all talking about as far as graphics software and making content, I just hope that you content creaters take advantage of this TRS09 graphic engine and make some really cool detailed loco's like the new UP along with rolling stock, buildings etc.

I would hope content creaters will do so or this game won't look any better than TRS06 graphically.

You can always become a content creator yourself? Many people on these forums over the years knew nothing about content making and gradually learn't about it from the many tutorials available.

Barry

 

[Barry]

Is this picture you produced sort of bluish with perhaps some red and green speckles in it? If it is so, yes this is the normal map made from your grey scale texture.

You are welcome

Cheers

VinnyBarb

Hi that's about it and now have to learn about exporting animation from Blender. speckled bump maps, and getting windmill sails to rotate for c1785

Barry

 

[VinnyBarb]

You can always become a content creator yourself? Many people on these forums over the years knew nothing about content making and gradually learn't about it from the many tutorials available.

Barry

So did I, after discovering Trainz in a games store discount bin several years ago and buying it, I also wanted to create stuff for it after many happy hours of playing with it.

After reading up of how to create and d/loading any tutorial I could find (like Phil_C's, Terry Frank's and Paul Hobbs's tutorials and others) I started with very simple scenery items and after getting familiar working in my 3D program I advanced to more complex scenery items. The better I got in creating, the more I wanted to do till I finally started with my first locomotive, an Australian AN class diesel which no one did before.

It was a great learning experience with creating it, now I am building passengers enabled coaches with opening doors, DMUs (not on the DLS yet but soon TM and will be using animations and normal mapping now for my next to be released models. I am 68 years young now and if I can do it, almost anyone can do the same

Some newbees wanting to create start out wanting to do create a Challenger or Big Boy without knowing how to use GMax or 3DS Max, I say, start to walk before running.

Easy sometimes

Cheers

VinnyBarb

 

[Barry]

VinnyVarb


Great minds think alike, as I reached that magical age a few days back.
Not sure I like the trainz veteran in the heading though

Barry