Layers

[happyj]

Now that TS 12 has been in service for some time and hopefully all the bugs fixed, I have been contemplating trying this latest edition in the Trainz Series. First I want to know if Layers is include in this edition and, if so, is there any way of disabling them.

Although many users like layers , at my age they are a nuisance and I suspect the source of many problems expressed by users of TS2010, which I have removed from my computer. I for one am not likely to buy any future editions if layers is included and cannot be disabled.

Cheers.

 

[shaneturner12]

As far as I know, the layers feature is the same in TS12 as it is in TS2010.

Shane

 

[oknotsen]

First I want to know if Layers is include in this edition and, if so, is there any way of disabling them.

Yes and half.

Yes, it is included.
No, you can not disable it, but...

... What you can do is, at the start of each route you build, is go into the layer menu, lock the session layer so items can not be put into that, and select the route layer.
So you cant totally disable it, but you can lock a layer from getting content put onto it, which technically aint disabling it but might work out the same for you.

If that doesnt do it for you, you can always very easely merge layers, which might also have the same result for you.

 

[happyj]

Thanks Fellow Trainzers . By coincidence I received A voucher for a 50% discount from TS 12, so with your advise as to handle laters I will give it a try.

Cheers.

 

[Dermmy]

Trainz has always had layers. They just weren't called that, but there was always a route and there was always a session and the two always behaved pretty much exactly as they do now.

In TS10/12 you can have additional layers (or probably more correctly sub-layers) but there is absolutely no one forcing any user to use them. I never have, I doubt if 95% of users ever have and there is no way to magically acquire additional layers unless you deliberately put them there.

As to 'locking the session' and only loading the route that just doesn't work any more except in the very simplest of routes. Anything set up in Surveyor using a '?' key is saved to the session not the route. Loading the route will lose all that set-up. That includes interactive industries, road intersection options, ATLS grade crossing settings etc. If you use any of the above you must load Surveyor via Edit Session. There's no option, and not only that it's utterly totally bombproof...

Andy

 

[oknotsen]

You sure? Please explain.

As to 'locking the session' and only loading the route that just doesn't work any more except in the very simplest of routes. Anything set up in Surveyor using a '?' key is saved to the session not the route. Loading the route will lose all that set-up. That includes interactive industries, road intersection options, ATLS grade crossing settings etc. If you use any of the above you must load Surveyor via Edit Session. There's no option, and not only that it's utterly totally bombproof...

Okay, please do explain since either I dont understand you or you are at least somewhat wrong.

I just have loaded a route (via edit route) for which I deleted the session before loading. On that route I still found my interactive industry at the locations I had placed them. It also had the settings set the way I changed them from the default setup.
In other words: I did not get saved to a session as there is no session and it did not load the default setup.

With my little experience I cant see why this would be different for a large route. I doubt there is something like a maximum route file size after which the rest gets saved to a session.

 

[pware]

I just have loaded a route (via edit route) for which I deleted the session before loading. On that route I still found my interactive industry at the locations I had placed them.

Scenery items, including all interactive industries, are stored in a layer or layers. They can be stored in either route layers or in session layers. It does not really matter which although there can be some issues if track assets (track, signals, buffer stops, switches and interactive industries) are stored in session layers and you are creating a layout with multiple sessions.

So if the industries were still present in a route where you had deleted the session layer then it simply means that those industries were actually in the route layer - no big mystery there.

By the way, you cannot delete all your session layers in a layout as Trainz 2009, 2010 and TS12 will automatically recreate the session-layer as an empty layer. A layout without at least one session layer will be faulty.

It also had the settings set the way I changed them from the default setup. In other words: I did not get saved to a session as there is no session and it did not load the default setup.

This is where I disagree with you. Industry settings, weather conditions, time of day, driver lists, driver commands, rules and probably a few other things I have missed, are always saved as part of a session, although not in a session layer. So you may have deleted your original session layer but you did not delete the session. That explains why those industry settings were not lost.

I know this can be confusing - look at all the posts and threads in these forums dealing with the issue. But once you understand how it all works then life is so much easier.

Peter Ware

 

[pware]

Although many users like layers , at my age they are a nuisance and I suspect the source of many problems expressed by users of TS2010, which I have removed from my computer. I for one am not likely to buy any future editions if layers is included and cannot be disabled.

While all us "old timers" are entitled to our opinions I must disagree with you on this one. I find that layers are essential to creating layouts with multiple sessions where you want scenery items and train consists to be different between the sessions.

Cheers - and go the Packers!

 

[Ghost42]

Somehow get suckered into this....
Create route, "Layers_again", name session "delete_me", place track and loco plus trackmark "goto".
Instruct driver to go to "goto".
Run it and save.
Exit ts2010, fire up Content Manager, delete session "delete_me".
Fire up TS2010, Quick Drive "Layers_again".
Oh dear, where did my driver instructions go???
Rog

 

[pware]

Somehow get suckered into this....

Yes, I wish I had a cent - heck why not a $1, why should all the bankers get all the easy money - for every time I read one of these posts about layers.

 

[oknotsen]

Thanks for the extra info, Pware. Guess I got some more digging into that stuff to do. For now... it at least does what I want it to do, without me exactly understanding how (aparently) lol.

As for Ghost42:

ts2010

Yeah, the thing is, we are talking about layers in TS12, not 2010 . They might work the same, I dont know, but the explaning was for TS12 .

 

[Ghost42]

As for Ghost42:Yeah, the thing is, we are talking about layers in TS12, not 2010 . They might work the same, I dont know, but the explaning was for TS12 .[/quote]

Just a light-hearted post really, driver instructions are one thing but losing the set up of the M.I.N.s is a bit of a pain.
Rog

 

[gisa]

Somehow get suckered into this....
Create route, "Layers_again", name session "delete_me", place track and loco plus trackmark "goto".
Instruct driver to go to "goto".
Run it and save.
Exit ts2010, fire up Content Manager, delete session "delete_me".
Fire up TS2010, Quick Drive "Layers_again".
Oh dear, where did my driver instructions go???
Rog

Dermmy and Pware have given some excellent advice (worth rereading and then rereading again), which I will second. Allow me to offer a bit as well. First, don't delete the session "delete_me": I think your trackmark and driver instructions are stored there. Instead, try the following:

1. Make a new route and session (just for kicks until you get the hang of how this works).
2. Add in any layers you wish. As Dermmy said, most folks generally wont touch them. It can be handy if you are using transDEM to export vectors or if you want to sort things. I put tracks in one layer, powerlines in another, watercourses in another, etc...even if you don't want to use layers, just follow these instructions and you'll be fine each time.
3. Add your loco, trackmarks, etc...
4. Hit save - and yes - you can do this at any time (you can skip 2 and 3 if you want or do them later - ignore the text in the box: this is a mistake on Auran's part)
5. Exit surveyor. Done until next time.
6. Want to drive again? Go to route - session - drive or quick drive
7. Want to edit the route? Go to route - session - edit session - then, once surveyor has loaded, immediately change the layer to route and continue working. The reason for this is that all the details you put into your session will now be there, along with all the stuff in the route.
8. Repeat 2-4.

As long as you do not delete your session, your details will stay there.

Key Things to remember:
i) Never edit the route: edit the session (unless you are making many different sessions).
ii) Never delete the session for your route (unless you want to have to do all stuff Dermmy mentioned again).
iii) It's probably best to manually switch layers every time you load up your route until you are done with it. The reason for this is that otherwise, you will be building from the session. That makes things...difficult later on. Generally, people want to make the route (scenery, textures, trackage, etc...) first, then make a session (with trains). If you forget to switch layers, objects will be in the session layer and that can create a big mess later.

Follow the above and you should be good to go. Be sure to make backups occasionally too. Read here if you need some more clarification:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=69554

Still stuck or having issues? Post here and we'll help!

:wave:

Gisa

 

[Ghost42]

Hi Gisa,
All points noted, I don't know if the info is available for a creator, script writer etc to be able to create some visible indication as to what layer you are adding assets to.
I have been converted to merging before leaving a Surveyor session, all assets are then in the Route layer and instructions remain with the Session.

Having said that I have routes that have layers (Route only) for industries, signals, speed limits etc.
Dealing with speed limits and signalling in particular is so much easier when you can isolate them similar to what you can do in driver mode with the Minimap.
Regards
Rog

 

[gisa]

Sure Rog, whatever works best for you is what is important. Merging the two layers should be okay as well. I find the method I use is ideal for me (although I've had to merge layers as well because I forgot to switch to the route layer upon starting). Occasionally, I still find objects in my tile layer or elsewhere.

It would be neat to have an overlapping name indicating what layer is being worked on (similar to an FPS counter). The only other way is to manually click the layers and visually inspect what layer you are working on at the time.

When in doubt, create a very quick test map, and play around with the settings. Sometimes, I think that's the best way to learn and then, nothing worth missing can get lost if something goes awry.

Good luck and happy trainzing!

:wave:

Gisa ^^

 

[Davie_UCF]

I love layers, best new feature so far I think. My current route has at least 10 layers. I can put things on them I don't want to usually show and there fore enable them for different sessions.. For example a station carpark being busier.

Also I try to place all the trees on their own layer so I can remove them and lock them so I don't move them by accident..

Once you understand how great layers are you should be fine!

 

[happyj]

All of the discussion that came as a result of this post tends to reinforce my opinion that layers can be confusing and a nuisance to older Trainzers who have memory problems. This is probably why my most reliable version of Trainz is Trainz Classics 1 & 2 into which I imported TRS 2006 built ins. I have never had the program crash, get good FPS even on George Fishers layouts, no stuttering or any other problems.

So, I will try TS2012 but will keep earlier editions active on my computers.

Cheers.