Spawn_of_Chaos97
Trainz for Everyone!
GAH stupid stupid stupid...I meant to copy/paste this into my last post, sorry sorry sorry!
Last edited:
It's the end of the line ...
- Thread starter martinvk
- Start date
Model Railways are not dying.The papers just say that. Also if people can't acccept other's interests then they are not good people. I accept that others like football although I hate it. No-one accepts that I like trains. There are howver people who do accept or like it but are oushed int the darkness so not to recieve the amount of attack and abuse I get. 
Excuse me while I have a cry...
Matt
Excuse me while I have a cry...
Matt
WileeCoyote
Eatibus Almost Anythingus
That last bit is certainly a good point, since the attempted train bombings in Koeln (Cologne for you who are not living in Germany) last year Deutsche Bahn has not minded railfans at their stations for the obvious reason Harry pointed out. But I honestly don't see why you have to inform the staff of your presence, pointless, the signal box master knows who I am anyways
WileeCoyote
stagecoachdriverdave
Matt
I think that for the most part, model trains are here to stay for at least another generation. I am 16 and have three current freinds my age who share this interest with me but I have known more at previous schools and such. Here in the UK, although the media feasts off of taking the p*ss and really removing any dignity from the hobby, there are still many who enjoy trains whether they are full sized or model.
There is a model shop chain called Model Zone which I think has done everything right to promote model railroads to younger people, too old for Thomas. The shop is light and airy with a high ceiling, it has a very cool, modern feel about the place, and current rock or pop music is always played on the sound system. And it works. I constantly see people between 10 and 18 going in there, some even with their girlfreinds.
There is a model shop chain called Model Zone which I think has done everything right to promote model railroads to younger people, too old for Thomas. The shop is light and airy with a high ceiling, it has a very cool, modern feel about the place, and current rock or pop music is always played on the sound system. And it works. I constantly see people between 10 and 18 going in there, some even with their girlfreinds.
perry_weekley
New member
Shoot I feel like I should show you the cost of steam locomotives in the US now people. I believe the cheapest I seen was a used loco for about 5 dollars.
Here are some costs I seen today.( sorry you might as well see all the prices)
http://www.trainbarn.com/mth_premier_steamengines.htm
If i can find more I will show you.
Here are some costs I seen today.( sorry you might as well see all the prices)
http://www.trainbarn.com/mth_premier_steamengines.htm
If i can find more I will show you.
WileeCoyote
Eatibus Almost Anythingus
You should see the prices for some of Maerklin's 1 gauge stuff, for some of it I could by a decent Lada's with a heater!
WileeCoyote
WileeCoyote
johnwhelan
Well-known member
Maybe I can afford that new video card after all.
Cheerio John
Cheerio John
Im sorry to say it, but a lot of us are the last of a dying breed. I still dream of a physical layout, which is where my G-Scale idea came from.
when I do get a place of my own, weather it be an apartment or a house, I plan on doing at the very least, a small switching layout, so that I have something better to do then just sit on the computer
I like Trainz, I really, do, it allows so much more freedom, you can build your dream layout (quite literally too) its aloud me to fulfill my dream of Colorado narrow gauge at a fraction of the cost, but nothing i can do on a computer can compare with the Joy I feel when operating an actual layout. While I do not have my own, Several of my friends do, and I greatly enjoy running them
when I do get a place of my own, weather it be an apartment or a house, I plan on doing at the very least, a small switching layout, so that I have something better to do then just sit on the computer
I like Trainz, I really, do, it allows so much more freedom, you can build your dream layout (quite literally too) its aloud me to fulfill my dream of Colorado narrow gauge at a fraction of the cost, but nothing i can do on a computer can compare with the Joy I feel when operating an actual layout. While I do not have my own, Several of my friends do, and I greatly enjoy running them
Transportfan
...the sign man
Trainz has one major advantage over physical models though. You can make layouts as long and straight as you want. The limitations of size makes even the best physical layouts inherently unrealistic.
In the paper today, there was the above headline with the following subhead:
"Model trains are a dying hobby, store owner says on closing shop."
It was reported that Allied Model Trains in Culver City, California is closing after 32 years in business. It was housed in a half block long replica of the Los Angeles Union Station. Seems the biggest problem is getting the next generation interested in the hobby as the current fans are grow older. According to the author, there are so many other interests, like video games competing for the attention of today's youth. The article also mentions that Model Railroader has had a drop in magazine circulation fro 272,000 in 1993 to only 162,000 today. And they estimate that the average railroader spends $1555 per year, almost twice the 1993 average.
Well we are part of that competition. If the physical part of the hobby is suffering, we need to sell the virtual aspects and highlight the many advantages not the least of which is the relative low cost to join and play. Unlike the need to buy every car,wagon and other object separately, we can install and use an almost unlimited number objects without incurring extra costs. Creating and using multiple layouts is normal, you don't run out of space and at the end of the day, you can just turn off the computer and not have to worry about putting everything away for the next time. It's also very portable as those with high end laptops can play anywhere, not just in the hobby room.
As much as we may lament the loss of such hobby shops, if we at the end of the day don't find and introduce potential trains people to the virtual side of the hobby, they will find other games to get excited about and we will have an even smaller hobby.
my ambistion (as a 16 year old) is to have a model railway purly for one reason your able to create high detaled layout that you could not do on a high end DESKTOP computer the amount of times i've had to delitet object so the computer does't freeze or crash!
(i don't know if people have said what i've just said if so sorry)
and at the end of the day the feeling any one gets from building and operating a railway/railroad is a feeling you can't get with a trainz railway/railroad it's the same with weathering
i could go on for ever but i won't
said by Transportfan
your right in most cases but there are two examples that i know of
http://www.pendonmuseum.com/index.jsp
http://www.gainsmodelrailway.ik.com/ east coast main line in O gauge (king's cross to leeds central)
philgor
johnwhelan
Well-known member
The east coast line has taken more than 50 years to build. To view it I have to travel a few thousand miles. Compare that to the work being done in GWR Broad gauage at the moment. Within a few months we have built up a fair collection of rolling stock, copied and converted existing layouts all of which can be freely downloaded. As for detail my personal view is we don't do so badly. On the computer we have level of detail and with <ALT>FLY or whatever I can walk around the route. For scenery have a look at Church lane terrace, it stands up very well against any hand built scenery I've seen. Animated figures well yes they exist on model railways but they are fairly expensive and rare, in Trainz they aren't uncommon. Passengers that load, doors that open, Policemen with truchions, realistic performance Trainz doesn't do too badly.
Cheerio John
This is sad news, but it's typical of the times. There are many factors, cost being one of them, as well as lack of instant gratification.
The model industry has taken the focus away from the young generation, that could become interested, and moved their focus to the "limited edition" runs of locos, and accessories aimed at the collecter, instead of the regular consumer who would love to run the locos and cars on their layout. What items were once within reach of most people, are now in the hands of a few that get scoffed up by collectors. When a limited edition ends its run, the price skyrockets well beyond what many people can afford because the item is scarce.
The other reason, like music, old car restoration, and art, model railroading takes a little bit of effort to make it happen. Many kids and young adults today want everything instantly, and do not want to put the effort into making the hobby happen. I've heard this from many music teachers as well when it comes to piano lessons, dance lessons, etc. In other words, they have to use their brains in some creative manner.
For many years I had an N-scale layout, but unfortunately due to health reasons, lack of space and money, I've had to give it up. I have tremors in my hands due to some neuro-muscular problems, and as a result I drop things too easily. Add to the mix, nystigmus (twitching eyeballs), and little objects end up where they're not supposed to be. Do you know what it's like to drop the same part at least 10 times when trying to glue it on to a model? I must add that the nystigmus does get in the way of Trainz too as I become dizzy from it especially when bouts of vertigo set in when I'm using Surveyor.
John
The model industry has taken the focus away from the young generation, that could become interested, and moved their focus to the "limited edition" runs of locos, and accessories aimed at the collecter, instead of the regular consumer who would love to run the locos and cars on their layout. What items were once within reach of most people, are now in the hands of a few that get scoffed up by collectors. When a limited edition ends its run, the price skyrockets well beyond what many people can afford because the item is scarce.
The other reason, like music, old car restoration, and art, model railroading takes a little bit of effort to make it happen. Many kids and young adults today want everything instantly, and do not want to put the effort into making the hobby happen. I've heard this from many music teachers as well when it comes to piano lessons, dance lessons, etc. In other words, they have to use their brains in some creative manner.
For many years I had an N-scale layout, but unfortunately due to health reasons, lack of space and money, I've had to give it up. I have tremors in my hands due to some neuro-muscular problems, and as a result I drop things too easily. Add to the mix, nystigmus (twitching eyeballs), and little objects end up where they're not supposed to be. Do you know what it's like to drop the same part at least 10 times when trying to glue it on to a model? I must add that the nystigmus does get in the way of Trainz too as I become dizzy from it especially when bouts of vertigo set in when I'm using Surveyor.
John
I believe that in 2008, Hornby will start producing models that were in the past cutting edge but have been superceeded by more detailed models, sold for a reduced price tag. I wouldn't expect them to be cheap, because they still need to make a profit, but perhaps less expensive and therefore the younger modellers who want a new "toy" rather than a super-extra-really fine-detailed model.
Unfortunately, I can't source this again, so unless someone can confirm this then it will remain rumour.
EDIT: The range is called Hornby Railroad and is due September 07, but there are no official pages. Take a look at some retailers' sites though, since some already feature the items.
BidMod.
Unfortunately, I can't source this again, so unless someone can confirm this then it will remain rumour.
EDIT: The range is called Hornby Railroad and is due September 07, but there are no official pages. Take a look at some retailers' sites though, since some already feature the items.
BidMod.
The comments in this thread have been interesting, but I would, if I may, share some slightly different perspectives.
First, as to cost, I don't think that the "real cost" of model railroad equipment has changed all that much. When I bought some of my first railroad cars, the cost was from about 2.00 to about 5.00 USD, and my first locomotive was about 15.00 USD. But at the time, the minimum wage in the U.S. was $1.25 per hour. Looking at prices for equivalent types of product today, a person would have to work about the same amount of time at minimum wage to purchase an equivalent quality product, so the real cost has not really gone up.
Second, in building an HO model railroad, my father and I needed a number of diverse skill sets: carpentry, electrical wiring, painting, plaster work, &c. While the exact skill sets have changed (DCC has reduced the need to understand electricity required by someone implementing a block control system) there are still skill sets (and equipment) needed which not everyone has. Before one can operate a model railroad of any degree of sophistication, usually one must first build it, requiring saws, hammers, building materials, &c., and the knowledge of how to use them to construct benchwork. I know how to do this, as I had a couple of years of wood shop, but my brothers, just a few years younger than I, did not have the benefit of shop classes, and my child, and the children of my brothers and sister did not have shop classes, either. And then there's the problem of what to do with your mistakes. If you make an error in a virtual model, you have lost the time you spent; if you make an error in a physical model, not only have you lost the time, but you've ruined material, as well, so you're out money, as well.
Third, about the hobby shop going out of business, well this is hardly a new phenomenon, either. I remember the editorials and letters from hobby shop owners in the model railroad magazines from years ago, complaining about customers patronizing the mail order advertisers for the lower prices that were offered in the advertisements. The internet has made the pressures on hobby shop owners even more pronounced, as it has increased the number of their competitors significantly.
Third, while the magazines devoted to model railroading may have declined (My favorite was "Mainline Modeler", which ceased publication about a year ago; I have an almost complete run, missing only volume 1 number 1), the the actual number of model railroaders is probably at an all time high. My hunch is that the virtual modelers who use TRAINZ and the other rail sims do not buy these magazines, and in my view, the number of people who prefer "v-scale" needs to be added to the number who model the other physical scales. My guess, if one includes all, that the number of model railroad participants would be at an all time high, although many of us do not buy the model railroad magazines, because we perceive little in it of much value to us. And of course, when we spend money on our branch of the hobby, it is more likely to be at the computer store than at the hobby shop (though I did purchase a couple of titles of my rail software from Walthers).
ns
First, as to cost, I don't think that the "real cost" of model railroad equipment has changed all that much. When I bought some of my first railroad cars, the cost was from about 2.00 to about 5.00 USD, and my first locomotive was about 15.00 USD. But at the time, the minimum wage in the U.S. was $1.25 per hour. Looking at prices for equivalent types of product today, a person would have to work about the same amount of time at minimum wage to purchase an equivalent quality product, so the real cost has not really gone up.
Second, in building an HO model railroad, my father and I needed a number of diverse skill sets: carpentry, electrical wiring, painting, plaster work, &c. While the exact skill sets have changed (DCC has reduced the need to understand electricity required by someone implementing a block control system) there are still skill sets (and equipment) needed which not everyone has. Before one can operate a model railroad of any degree of sophistication, usually one must first build it, requiring saws, hammers, building materials, &c., and the knowledge of how to use them to construct benchwork. I know how to do this, as I had a couple of years of wood shop, but my brothers, just a few years younger than I, did not have the benefit of shop classes, and my child, and the children of my brothers and sister did not have shop classes, either. And then there's the problem of what to do with your mistakes. If you make an error in a virtual model, you have lost the time you spent; if you make an error in a physical model, not only have you lost the time, but you've ruined material, as well, so you're out money, as well.
Third, about the hobby shop going out of business, well this is hardly a new phenomenon, either. I remember the editorials and letters from hobby shop owners in the model railroad magazines from years ago, complaining about customers patronizing the mail order advertisers for the lower prices that were offered in the advertisements. The internet has made the pressures on hobby shop owners even more pronounced, as it has increased the number of their competitors significantly.
Third, while the magazines devoted to model railroading may have declined (My favorite was "Mainline Modeler", which ceased publication about a year ago; I have an almost complete run, missing only volume 1 number 1), the the actual number of model railroaders is probably at an all time high. My hunch is that the virtual modelers who use TRAINZ and the other rail sims do not buy these magazines, and in my view, the number of people who prefer "v-scale" needs to be added to the number who model the other physical scales. My guess, if one includes all, that the number of model railroad participants would be at an all time high, although many of us do not buy the model railroad magazines, because we perceive little in it of much value to us. And of course, when we spend money on our branch of the hobby, it is more likely to be at the computer store than at the hobby shop (though I did purchase a couple of titles of my rail software from Walthers).
ns
When I was a boy I had a OO layout on a 6ft x 4ft board. I always thought that one day later in life I would have a bigger model railway and even considered N. However on discovering Trainz I can have layouts not conefined to an empty bedroom or garage but more or less unlimited, etc. It is also more immensley chaper! Now I can fulfill a project I am presently working on I could never do in my home.
I still go to the Annual Scots Model Rail Show at the Scottish Exhibition Centre here in Glasgow but Trainz was as good as the first woman I fell in love with eons ago.....!
I still go to the Annual Scots Model Rail Show at the Scottish Exhibition Centre here in Glasgow but Trainz was as good as the first woman I fell in love with eons ago.....!