Is track laying direction still an issue for AI trains?

[Apollo43]

I read in a tutorial that we are supposed to lay the track in one continuous direction, and that should be (if possible) the direction most trains will travel on the track. The document states that it's not a problem for manual controlled trains but AI trains get confused and may not take the intended path to their target destination.

I'm wondering, if this issue has been resolved in 2010. I don't unterstand why it is an issue in the first place. Why would the trains care weather the track was laid left to right or right to left or any combination of the two?

I'm suprised that there is some data or value in the program that retains the information as far as what direction (L to R or R to L) the track was laid. Why do they keep track of this. They must be storing this somewhere or else, how would a train I add to a track long after I built the track know what way I laid the track?

 

[sniper297]

No argument here, the concept is good, but near as I can tell the only thing it's useful for is default direction when you place a train or marker on that track. Which of course can be easily reversed with the rotation tool. I haven't figured out what kind of "logic" the AI uses, but it seems to prefer the route with the longest distance between signals and/or switches over a route with green signals every half mile, regardless of which direction the track was laid. Left to their own devices on double track that I laid each track in the correct direction, they prefer to move over to the other track - even stopping and backing thru a reverse facing crossover to get there - since the wrong track doesn't have as many signals facing toward the AI train.

So basically I just quit worrying about it, and instead of using the standard directional markers suggested by the tutorial;

http://trains.0catch.com/tutorial.html

I use another one built into TS2010 that controls AI direction without giving false red indications to signals;

AI Routing Direction Marker,<kuid:30501:1013>

And that seems to work fine.

"Why would the trains care weather the track was laid left to right or right to left or any combination of the two?"

Near as I can tell, the AI trains actually don't care.

 

[Apollo43]

No argument here, the concept is good, but near as I can tell the only thing it's useful for is default direction when you place a train or marker on that track. Which of course can be easily reversed with the rotation tool. I haven't figured out what kind of "logic" the AI uses, but it seems to prefer the route with the longest distance between signals and/or switches over a route with green signals every half mile, regardless of which direction the track was laid. Left to their own devices on double track that I laid each track in the correct direction, they prefer to move over to the other track - even stopping and backing thru a reverse facing crossover to get there - since the wrong track doesn't have as many signals facing toward the AI train.

So basically I just quit worrying about it, and instead of using the standard directional markers suggested by the tutorial;

http://trains.0catch.com/tutorial.html

I use another one built into TS2010 that controls AI direction without giving false red indications to signals;

AI Routing Direction Marker,<kuid:30501:1013>

And that seems to work fine.

"Why would the trains care weather the track was laid left to right or right to left or any combination of the two?"

Near as I can tell, the AI trains actually don't care.

Thank you sniper. If it's not going to help then I too will ignore the track direction laying rule because I do bits and pieces all over the board and it's a pain to always work from work direction.

That tutorial you pointed out it a very good one. What is the difference between the Standard Direction markers and the AI Routing Direction markers?

 

[AntonyVW]

Must admit, when I first got the game earlier this year - someone told me about laying the track all in the same direction. Well as my route has grown I have no idea which direction I started in. The trains dont seem to mind so why should I.

Now having said that Im betting someone will come along to enlighten us

 

[ct_krogen]

I'm wondering, if this issue has been resolved in 2010. I don't unterstand why it is an issue in the first place. Why would the trains care weather the track was laid left to right or right to left or any combination of the two?


welli never reakky had that problem

 

[sniper297]

Well, that's my point, if the AI trains actually do have a preference for track that was laid in the direction they're going, I've never seen any actual proof of that. Where it might help is in placing the directional markers, but even there it's a simple matter of clicking with the rotate tool to spin it around if it faces the wrong way.

" What is the difference between the Standard Direction markers and the AI Routing Direction markers?"

The standard direction markers found in the track marks section act like a train occupying the block, and cause the preceding signal to be red. Which of course causes false indication on the one before that, which will show yellow because the next one is red.

Switch set for the left track which has the standard directional marker facing this way, since that type affects the signal it shows red over red even tho the route is set and the block is clear. Player seeing this would assume there's a train up ahead.

The AI routing direction marker stops the AI from entering, but leaves the signal to display the correct aspect so the player don't get confused. Why they still use the standard marker when they have this one is a mystery, the AI routing marker controls the AI trains without affecting the signals.

 

[paulzmay]

The whole track direction thing is either a myth or well out of date. I suspect that it pre-dates the introduction of track direction markers in TRS04 (IIRC). It may be that there is a subtle difference in AI routefinding when no direction markers are used, but I've never found ANY problem when signals and direction markers are set up correctly...

Paul

 

[JCitron]

I'll have to try the 'new track-direction' markers. I've never used them before!

Anyway I read somewhere that the AI wants to drive on the wrong track because the program is originally and still is from Australia. The programmers had coded the AI to use their default driving side, and for some reason this remains this way to this day.

So at sometime, maybe during TRS2004 development or maybe before, I don't remember anything well before TRS2004, the route builders got the yellow direction marker gift to help keep the AI on the correct side of the double-tracked line.

John

 

[paulzmay]

I'll have to try the 'new track-direction' markers. I've never used them before!

Anyway I read somewhere that the AI wants to drive on the wrong track because the program is originally and still is from Australia. The programmers had coded the AI to use their default driving side, and for some reason this remains this way to this day.

So at sometime, maybe during TRS2004 development or maybe before, I don't remember anything well before TRS2004, the route builders got the yellow direction marker gift to help keep the AI on the correct side of the double-tracked line.

John

That seems like an even more unlikley explanation... it certainly couldn't be the case if you laid two parallel single tracks in the same direction.

Paul

 

[JCitron]

That seems like an even more unlikley explanation... it certainly couldn't be the case if you laid two parallel single tracks in the same direction.

Paul

Very true, Paul. This was something I read somewhere, but as we know there are so many unexplained reasons, and farces out there regarding this issue.

I think the AI do this to take the shortest route between to points, and will try whatever maneuver they see to get there including backing up and taking the first open path they can see. In my not so expert thinking, this seems to have gotten better with NorfolkSouthern's new search signals he made with the latest scripting. With these signals and the better AI scripting, their patience seems to be a lot better than it used to be.

John

 

[Blackie11]

I am assuming this marker is not available on the DLS as it is built in to TS10. I looked and could not find it.

Regards,

Dave

 

[davesnow]

One thing I discovered is that the Helicopters do not obey Track Direction Markers, and actually seem to prefer to fly backwards!

Cheers,

Dave

 

[sniper297]

Well, again I haven't seen any evidence that they prefer left handed or right handed running or even the most direct path;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJb_8UywoRA

It seems to me that they're looking for the longest fastest run with the least amount of signals, or possibly they have radar detectors and know where the cops are hiding.

FYI, those who never tried the other two of The Big Three;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAZFDTHU-bc

The whole reason I'm here, neither of the other two have any kind of in game "dispatcher" like the F6 driver menu where you can change stuff while playing, and both have unreasonable restrictions on which switches the player can control and when. :n:

"I am assuming this marker is not available on the DLS as it is built in to TS10"

I don't see it either, but since the DLS search is such a crapshoot it's hard to tell if it's not there or the search 'bot just can't find it.

AI Routing Direction Marker,<kuid:30501:1013> - that one is build 3.0, might not be in 2009.
AI Routing Priority Marker,<kuid:-3:10190> - build 2.0, haven't tried that one yet but I'm assuming it would send a priority 3 train down a track marked for priority 3, and so on. I looked at it once to see if I could send commuters to the inner tracks and freights to the outer tracks with those, but as I recall you can't change priority for an AI train spawning from a portal so I went back to navigate via markers after each facing point switch.