If you love trains, then help them!

[H222]

Oh my Lord.

I think everyone knows, where I may stand on the whole Amtrak matter.

Hard not to notice

But I feel as if Amtrak, would become the mode of transport state to state if they were for one on time. I was on the FRA website, to see where trains were on time. And the lake shore limited was 8 Hours late! That is crazy.

Doesn't matter they're still much slower than airplanes. Air has the advantage everywhere except maybe SoCal and the NEC. The Auto Train has a slight advantage because the trains can carry cars, whereas planes can't

CSX must really hate passenger trains.

Well duh, CSX don't make money from them... Same reason their steam program is practically non-existent.

If trains ran more frequent, not once a day but several times a day. Twice at least. Giving Americans the option to take the train at night or day.

Christ. And 2 trains = twice the expenses. Giving Americans the option to pay more taxes, I suppose you mean

But I think I said this earlier but Amtrak connects cities to cities, cities need to start the develop their own public transit systems or improve existing ones.

Again, airplanes work exactly the same. Public Transport from the Airport to the city is the same as Public Transport from Union Station to the city.

And over time those long distance lines may show a trend between two certain cities and that is when states will know that a track upgrade is needed, faster service, and also a new service.

And again, with the Airplanes.

So on time performance and frequent service are whats needed.

Which both cost more money.

HSR doesn't always have to be looked as 200mph trains, that is claimed to expensive to build.

They are expensive to build. What are you saying, faster trains but not Fast trains?

But if the investment process is started now, later on the state can grade separate it and electrify it, increasing speeds as the demand becomes great. Like the NEC but the thing with the NEC is it is needed, like Now.

And this is the reason why it shouldn't be started now. Not to mention the fact that it would be pointless. Airports will always be dominant on long distance. Remember ocean liner travel? Yeah, people used to travel from New York-London for non-leisure purposes. Took them about 30 days. Now what is it? 6 hours? Southwest chief takes 2 days? Chicago-LA via plane. 4 hours

I love trains, but you're dreaming...

Jamie

 

[amtrak2041864]

Oh my Lord.

Hard not to notice

Doesn't matter they're still much slower than airplanes. Air has the advantage everywhere except maybe SoCal and the NEC. The Auto Train has a slight advantage because the trains can carry cars, whereas planes can't

Well duh, CSX don't make money from them... Same reason their steam program is practically non-existent.

Christ. And 2 trains = twice the expenses. Giving Americans the option to pay more taxes, I suppose you mean

Again, airplanes work exactly the same. Public Transport from the Airport to the city is the same as Public Transport from Union Station to the city.

And again, with the Airplanes.

Which both cost more money.

They are expensive to build. What are you saying, faster trains but not Fast trains?

And this is the reason why it shouldn't be started now. Not to mention the fact that it would be pointless. Airports will always be dominant on long distance. Remember ocean liner travel? Yeah, people used to travel from New York-London for non-leisure purposes. Took them about 30 days. Now what is it? 6 hours? Southwest chief takes 2 days? Chicago-LA via plane. 4 hours

I love trains, but you're dreaming...

Jamie

I may be dreaming but all break thoughts start with a dream. Like Airplanes, cars and or computers. Passenger trains in america will one day, will be awesome. Until then, you will have people like me. Who knows that the battle they are fighting may be lost now, but down the road opened up a new way of thinking for a different individual. That can possible make ones persons dream into reality. I have heard it many times, History always repeats itself.

But I understand, passenger rail is expensive. Its an investment. The MTA's, New York City Subway, is right now building the second Avenues subway line, cost 17 billion dollars. Will the line pay its self off. Now maybe not (after completion), but as years go by it will. As opus722 said in his post, "It just takes a large upfront investment. US culture is too impatient and rail isn't some penny stock you cash out after a few days. It is a trust fund that takes years to reach its potential, but when it does the rewards are great." Couldn't say any better myself. It takes time which must Americans (including myself) are so impatient about, they want results now. If congress can sit down and look at the facts. Rail travel is exploding, it is only responsible on their part to invest accordingly. And when those 5-6 years studies are done, create the infrastructure, get the trains moving. And what I mean by accordingly is not leave every mode of transport in the dust. Create a balanced system, not giving one mode more then what is really needed.

 

[rjhowie]

If America drew in trying to run the world (spending half the global weapons bill) helping rail would be almost miniscule to that bill that you cannot afford over there yet new bases are still being formed. That is valuable tax money too is it not? All basically not required except for those corporates making a fortune creating fear. These sums are totally ridiculous sticking uniforms everywhere expect in the train world is daft. As an observer from another country ou have to be commended young man Amtrak2041864 for your interest, loyalty to trains in America.

 

[RRSignal]

If America drew in trying to run the world (spending half the global weapons bill) helping rail would be almost miniscule to that bill that you cannot afford over there yet new bases are still being formed. That is valuable tax money too is it not? All basically not required except for those corporates making a fortune creating fear. These sums are totally ridiculous sticking uniforms everywhere expect in the train world is daft. As an observer from another country ou have to be commended young man Amtrak2041864 for your interest, loyalty to trains in America.

Well, one of our biggest mistakes was bailing Europe out of that little mess it got itself into 70 years ago or so.

I'll tell you what: Take a poll, take a vote among the UN member nations, whatever. Make up your minds as to whether or not you want the U.S. to be the world's police or not, because, frankly, we're getting mixed messages. Oh, by the way, it's an all-or-nothing kinda deal; you can't support our intervention/support of, ooh, let's say, WWII, but oppose our intervention elsewhere. Oh, and, unlike the mistakes of the past, we would expect you to pay your share for any assistance we lend, up front, plus any interest.

Then, we may (or may not) have more free money to spend on our railroads. Though, personally, I'll still oppose wasting it on Amtrak or HSR. But, hey, if you want it so bad, you're free to put your money where your mouth is and help pay for it.

 

[opus722]

Well, one of our biggest mistakes was bailing Europe out of that little mess it got itself into 70 years ago or so.

I always thought the Russians had something to do with it. Maybe that island over there too...Ireland? No, the other one. I always forget its name. Silly me.

On a more serious note - please, I am begging you without getting too political, stop comparing World War II to what the US is up to today. The "Ugly American"-ism in this thread is starting to overflow the bedpan.

Finally, Amtrak survived the 80s, albeit with huge deficits and deferred maintenance, and this budget still gives them more funding than any of the 80s ones did. Amtrak is also making more money now that it was then too. Amtrak will survive.

 

[cascaderailroad]

Well, one of our biggest mistakes was bailing Europe out of that little mess it got itself into 70 years ago or so.

I'll tell you what: Take a poll, take a vote among the UN member nations, whatever. Make up your minds as to whether or not you want the U.S. to be the world's police or not, because, frankly, we're getting mixed messages. Oh, by the way, it's an all-or-nothing kinda deal; you can't support our intervention/support of, ooh, let's say, WWII, but oppose our intervention elsewhere. Oh, and, unlike the mistakes of the past, we would expect you to pay your share for any assistance we lend, up front, plus any interest.

Then, we may (or may not) have more free money to spend on our railroads. Though, personally, I'll still oppose wasting it on Amtrak or HSR. But, hey, if you want it so bad, you're free to put your money where your mouth is and help pay for it.

Ohh ... lol ... in 64pt bold, italic, underlined font !

The US has given trillions to rebuild Germany, England, Israel, and many other countries, as foriegn aid every year, for dozens of decades (as well as paying to rebuild their railroads).

WWI and WWII were provoked by axis terrorist ground invasions, and aerial bombings performed by enemy foreign government States ... against England and allied European countries ... I doubt the England provoked: "that little trouble it got itself into" !

In the mean time the US has done little or nothing to re-build and repair/maintain it's own railroads ... in fact the US has dismantled its railroads into a delapidated shameful state.

 

[pfx]

I'll tell you what: Take a poll, take a vote among the UN member nations, whatever. Make up your minds as to whether or not you want the U.S. to be the world's police or not, because, frankly, we're getting mixed messages. Oh, by the way, it's an all-or-nothing kinda deal; you can't support our intervention/support of, ooh, let's say, WWII, but oppose our intervention elsewhere. Oh, and, unlike the mistakes of the past, we would expect you to pay your share for any assistance we lend, up front, plus any interest.

On a more serious note - please, I am begging you without getting too political, stop comparing World War II to what the US is up to today. The "Ugly American"-ism in this thread is starting to overflow the bedpan.

I wouldn't get worked up lads. Sadly, some people are incapable of accepting that others have, or are entitled to have valid views, which could in any way conflict with their own. There is no point wasting keystrokes on such people unless you want to argue black is white and vice versa.

Personally, I think the transport models in the US and UK differ so greatly, no comparison can be made. But then again, I don't live in the US so have no first hand experience on which to make a properly informed opinion. Given our collective interest however, I'd guess that it is reasonable to expect that it is sometimes hard to be objective about such an issue.

I see the merits of passenger transit in and around the major conurbations. This is a practical solution to moving a lot of people quickly around a relatively small area. Long distance rail just doesn't sound like an attractive option, especially for the buisiness traveller when time is of the essence. Even as a tourist, I doubt I'd want to spend valuable holiday time on a train unless I that was a specific part of the holiday. The flip side is the huge quantity of freight that can be moved by a single train where speed is perhaps not the prime concern, but economies of scale. That is where long distance rail comes into it's own.

As someone living in the British Isles, I appreciate the scale. Consider that John O Groats in Scotland to Land's End in England is only 874 miles by road (602 miles as the crow flies). Compare that to a 'top to tail' journey in the Sates, eg. Bangor, Maine to San Diego, California. At 2700 miles it's almost 4 1/2 times the distance.

 

[RRSignal]

It matters absolutely zero who provoked what. That doesn't keep our people and money here, solving domestic problems. Like preserving worthwhile rail operations.

 

[rjhowie]

Unfortunately and due respect RRSignal you fall into that corner of your land that has a supercilious view of WW2 and the world in general. No-one asked you to be world policeman you wanted that all by yourself as a country. It was your determination to replace the old British Empire with one of your own and did that. As for mixed signals that is because so many over the pond have been brought up to beelive that they are the upholders of freedom and democracy when the internal history is something else! Hence the mythology of policeman rather than super nationalist imperialism (!). My country did appreciate you eventually coming into WW2 even if it took a while and in 1945 the USA had much respect around the world but you have wll squandered that by your own hand. We as one nation were NOT bailed out but cost us dear in loan and interest which seen it only finished several years ago. We suffered dreadfully physically but you managed a profit. I value a number of folk from the USA but the arrogance of creating war after war and the commercial corporates (who really run the country not the Hill festooned by millionaires!) follow up, detracts from principles. It is a disgrace how much is spent on trying to shape the world to a false ideology and that half the world's armaments bill I mentioned. Taking this back to railways, I can understand that many see no great need for passenger rail and their right of argument however putting money into a decent rail service would be chickenfeed against the utterly daft fairy tale self-created that says you must be a policeman. Spending money on trains is a far les contentious issue in the world! Let trains rule not imperialist traits! :hehe:

 

[RRSignal]

Unfortunately and due respect RRSignal you fall into that corner of your land that has a supercilious view of WW2 and the world in general. No-one asked you to be world policeman you wanted that all by yourself as a country. It was your determination to replace the old British Empire with one of your own and did that. As for mixed signals that is because so many over the pond have been brought up to beelive that they are the upholders of freedom and democracy when the internal history is something else! Hence the mythology of policeman rather than super nationalist imperialism...

<snipped for space>

Spending money on trains is a far les contentious issue in the world! Let trains rule not imperialist traits! :hehe:

Supercilious? Hardly. Along with 80%+ of the American public at the beginning, I would have preferred we not get involved in the war at all. That hardly suggests we wanted to be the world's policeman. Less than 20% of the population and a few power-mad politicians really wanted intervention. Unfortunately, that <20% got a gift that keeps on giving.

It's only out of respect for many of your fellow brits that I've avoided (so far) discussing the reign of terror your own nation imposed on the planet for years. You can't even justify that by "police" authority. But, hey, at least you got good railroads to show for it.

 

[cascaderailroad]

This will be my last political topic on the subject of Trains, and helping Trains.

The US did not want to get involved in WWI or WWII ... as for WWII when a mass terrorist attack on Pearl Harbor struck the US on its own soil, we had no other recourse to get involved.

Prior to that we were funding our allies in England, and other European, and Asian countries, that were being invaded by the Axis of Terror.

Japan had been aging war on China and other Asian countries, many years before 1900 ... and when the Axis Alliance was signed by Germany, Japan & Italy the reign of terror was becoming a full blown communist world conquest.

Had we not joined in to fund these nations ... What would have happened if England fell to the Axis forces ... the world would have been catastrophically changed, and under Communist rule ... and we all here in the US might not have even been born, if the US had not funded our Allies ... So we continue to fund our Allies so as to keep the world in balance.

Class I railroads are private corporations, well capable of sustaining their own company.

Scenic Railroads do need help from members who provide donations ... but just as the East Broad Top RR ... If they collected donations from millions of people, it would not be enough to maintain and rebuild the RR. As in 1900 the railroad might have been built for $375,000 ... in todays economy it would cost millions, or billions of dollars.

So if you want to help your favorite scenic RR, please do !

 

[RRSignal]

This will be my last political topic on the subject of Trains, and helping Trains.

The US did not want to get involved in WWI or WWII ... as for WWII when a mass terrorist attack on Pearl Harbor struck the US on its own soil, we had no other recourse to get involved.

Prior to that we were funding our allies in England, and other European, and Asian countries, that were being invaded by the Axis of Terror.

Japan had been aging war on China and other Asian countries, many years before 1900 !

Yup, and certain power-made ditato...oops, I mean presidents, goaded the Japanese for years into attacking us.

Of course, the same can be said for our assistance to the British via lend-lease and war materiel. Had we remained truly neutral, we most likely would not have fought a war on either side of the world, let alone both.

 

[cascaderailroad]

I suggest you take up reading about what actually caused WWI and WWII, Global Economics, and what many Great Depressions were going on worldwide from 1890 to 1948 ... the world economy was collapsing, and each Countries money was worthless ... spurring invasions and conquest of lands ... remaining neutral was not an option ... the continent of the US and Canada would have been totally invaded.

Do you know what invasion means ? You, your family, all your relitives, and all US, EU, and AUS citizens would have been annialated !

I'm done, as I can't talk sence to deaf ears !

Give donations to your local RR !

 

[RRSignal]

I suggest you take up reading about Global Economics, and what many Great Depressions were going on worldwide from 1890 to 1948 ... the world economy was collapsing, and each Countries money was worthless ... spurring invasions and conquest of lands ...

I have some familiarity. Ok, so, then, a crappy economy justifies invading someone else's country? Got it. So, let's hit Iran tomorrow and China Friday afternoon.

remaining neutral was not an option ... the continent of the US would have been totally invaded.

Oh, really?

Do you know what invasion means ? You, your family, all your relitives, and all US, EU, and AUS citizens would have been annialated !

Yup, and it didn't happen here, and we've never even been close to it. Even Kaiser Wilhem had no illusions of conquering us over a century ago; the best he thought the Germans could do was harass us. Europe, well, Europe would have gotten killed, but that's not our battle to fight...unless we are to be the world's police, of course.

 

[pfx]

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. QED.

 

[cascaderailroad]

Your father, forefathers, and their forefather' s fought in wars to protect this country, and other countries ... I suggest that you honor the dead heros ... and they did not perish from harassment ... they actually perished, and gave up their lives for you, so that you yourself could live !

They built RR's ... sad to say that RR's thrived in times of war

 

[Bluewater]

Your father, forefathers, and their forefather' s fought in wars to protect this country, and other countries ... I suggest that you honor the dead heros ... and they did not perish from harassment ... they actually perished, and gave up their lives for you, so that you yourself could live !

And so you could write those things freely from a computer that isn't watched by the government.

 

[RRSignal]

Your father, forefathers, and their forefather' s fought in wars to protect this country, and other countries ... I suggest that you honor the dead heros ... and they did not perish from harassment ... they actually perished, and gave up their lives for you, so that you yourself could live !

Yes, I have plenty of forebears that fought in that war and many others. I also have ancestors who could have (and probably some were, being from Poland and Austria) put in gas chambers, completely defenseless, because a power-mad nut wanted to scapegoat a certain religion in order to dominate the world.

Edit: Please do tell what objecting to a massive war that killed millions has to do with a lack of honor of forefathers? I do honor and hold dear those who served. Possibly and probably more so than most of those who claim to "support our troops." As mentioned previously, the vast majority of my family, friends and acquaintances served our military, even in time of war, including my ex-wife.

 

[cascaderailroad]

Oh this thread has derailed miserably !

The grand scope of things in the world, is vastly bigger than what one see's with blinders on, being tunnel visioned.

It's just a teeny tiny tad more complicated, than just that one mad man that you spoke of ... an emmencely bigger scope than that one small person in time !
There have been well over 50 persons just like him, over the last 125 year period.

 

[RRSignal]

Oh this thread has derailed miserably !

The grand scope of things in the world, is vastly bigger than what one see's with blinders on, being tunnel visioned.

It's just a tad more complicated than just that one mad man that you spoke of ... an emmencely bigger scope than that !

Sure, it is. And when one power-mad president and a chancellor or two are wearing blinders that guide millions of innocents into an unnecessary war, one should question the necessity of their strange decisions. After the fact, we learn that the body count is off the charts, and that's only the dead; nevermind the immense suffering. Unfortunately, we can't undo the mistakes of the past, but learn from them, and not repeat them.