As my title suggests ""I Love Trainz 19" There are issues I have when you spend your hard earned money on extras such as Routes. I purchase a route for $39.99 and $19.99 download only to find that you are missing dependency. Now you have to search for these dependency and sometimes without success. Why can't these purchases have everything you need to run your route or session without a problem. Is this too much to ask?
I Love Trainz 19
- Thread starter railsim49
- Start date
These purchases were from a well known third party(not mentioning names). There response was to search for missing dependents on the download station. That is unacceptable. I purchased the items so it should be the responsibility of the seller too make sure the buyer has what it needs to run properly
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
If you wanted it to run properly you would accept the tools that are given to you to do so. It is neither feasible nor appropriate in most cases to offer DLS materials in a route download. The items are already at a central location so that you may access them.
Ok I did and the dependents that are needed to run the route/session are not on the DLS. So where do you go from here to find these missing assets?
coRioGrandeSouthern
Fan of Otto Mears
I agree with RailSim49 on this topic. If we are spending money on a route, the route should be all-inclusive. Would the provider of the route be offering his or her route designing efforts with the expectation of getting paid and then having to go to several banks to acquire the funds earned?
It seems acceptable to name assets with no real thought put into naming the asset in an identifiable manner and designing routes with no real effort put forth in including all assets needed for the route. Let the purchaser do the leg-work that the designer did in creating the route.
Then why pay for something that is incomplete? Where is the incentive to purchase anything if it is known that it is incomplete? I will pay in incomplete funds. That won't fly. Then why expect your customers to do what you are too lazy to do?
Copyrights? Then create content that you own if you want monetary compensation for your time invested. That's how it works in the real world. Virtual reality resides in the real world. Take responsibility for what you are getting paid for.
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
This case has changed your argument entirely. In such a case the route vendor should provide the items. That is generally and obviously how it should operate. I do not know of anywhere that blatantly sells a route without the required items and then refuses to give them to you, that is absurd. That is not however the case if the items are on the download station. If the route vendor includes all assets that are not on the DLS that seems acceptable as there is hardly a case where it is appropriate to do so otherwise.
coRioGrandeSouthern
Fan of Otto Mears
This case is exactly the same experience I have had with routes that I have purchased. And this case is precisely why I have stopped purchasing routes.
Trainz is an amazingly creative and fun outlet. But there appears to be no standards and no consistency. I know there are very responsible and talented creators within the Trainz Community. But creators that only want the money and take no responsibility for what they create are giving Trainz a very distasteful reputation.
coRioGrandeSouthern
Fan of Otto Mears
If you wanted it to run properly?
That expectation is self-evident when the purchase is made!
Where is the caveat that purchasing this route implicitly implies that infinitely more hours will be spent researching the internet and hunting down assets that the creator of the route is too lazy to include in what is being purchased?
The creator of a route has only to ask permission from the owners of the included assets if the assets can be cloned and included in the route being offered for purchase.
In other words: Take responsibility for what is being placed on the open market for monetary remuneration!
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
This is not fully taking into account the context. he said those words. he also said them without specifying that his real issue is some route he got from somewhere that has a dependency not included and also not available on the DLS. It is important not to conflate. My response was to his apparent refusal to use the DLS to download the missing item not having the information about the asset not actually being available there.
There isn't one and there shouldn't be. I am in total agreement that all of the assets required should be present, I am not in agreement that it should also include any DLS items in the package. Everyone can access that and it is generally not a good idea to distribute content that you have no control over when it comes to updates or changes of any kind. It invites more support issues whether you agree with it or not.
Then those creators or organizations should be made known so that they can either change or explain their policy to retain your patronage or they can not make sales and therefore not give a distasteful reputation. Easy solution.
Last edited:
coRioGrandeSouthern
Fan of Otto Mears
The context is that a route is being offered with monetary compensation.
Conflate that however you will.
I have created a few routes for my personal enjoyment. I have learned about the hard work and dedication that goes into creating a route. I have also learned how to contact creators of assets that I wished to use in my personal routes that enhance the enjoyment of that route. I have also learned how to name things with a meaningful name and add a description that actually describes the asset.
There seems to be no overwatch to any of these attributes. By the owners of Trainz or the creators of many assets.
Thus, Trainz is growing and becoming a quagmire of missing assets and uninformative asset names and descriptions.
And more and more users are purchasing routes and other assets and being disappointed in that content.
Conflate that in any manner, it is still the same result.
General practice that I have seen is to actually provide links to content not readily available. Of course, some links change over time, and some sites go away, so I think it behooves the seller to either update links, update the route to remove unavailable assets, or put up a clear warning that not all assets are available for the route.
Don't like it if DLS items are included in a route, not as DLC not as Payware route elsewhere
you end up with too much doubles if all routes include all assets.
A payware site, should clearly state, that you need to download extra content from the DLS if needed for a route
should be part of the sales agreement. Don't agree, you can't buy it.
Any route/session, could/should have a kuidlist in excel.
Beside what we see in CM the kuidlist can have an extra column,
with a direct http link if assets are on other sites.
you end up with too much doubles if all routes include all assets.
A payware site, should clearly state, that you need to download extra content from the DLS if needed for a route
should be part of the sales agreement. Don't agree, you can't buy it.
Any route/session, could/should have a kuidlist in excel.
Beside what we see in CM the kuidlist can have an extra column,
with a direct http link if assets are on other sites.
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
Right - I see you are not actually reading or at the worst understanding my posts. I am not in conflict with you, but we appear to be discussing different things. I am talking about those who complain about using the DLS to get dependencies. you are talking about missing dependencies and naming conventions. Further discussion in this manner is non-productive.
I do agree with you.
I agree. I also purchased one 3rd party route. At this point (with the total amnesia for many assets now no longer present in DLS), it may or may not be my last. I understand that I had a lapse in Trainz from 2006 until 2018 but wow... what a mess this whole centralized distribution idea has become. The *right* approach probably should have been "keep an eye on backward compatibility" but that seems to be not so. The real problem is, a route built for T:ANE has a lot of issues when installed in TRS-19... so if we accept that maybe 90% of the grass splines won't work... we have a starting point.
BUT: If you install this same route BUILT for T:ANE *in* T:ANE... the faulty assets that were seen for TRS19 are now mostly GONE for T:ANE as well... so you have an immediate problem of trying to resolve a page full of not just "missing assets" but a half page of assets that *once* existed that DLS now has no concept of. Example: TOXA BATOXA's grass textures.
My only resolution with the paid route in trs19 was finally resort to "deleting missing assets" and attempt to edit the route myself to add working replacements. (Note: I'd expect that from a freeware route)
The way it stands now... any route put up for sale by a 3rd party needs to say more than "T:ANE and TRS19" supported. Something more along the lines of "This route was tested in 2018. Expiration Date: 2020 or the next time N3V does a mass DLS purge" where N3V essentially says "Take a chill pill and deal with it y'all".
BUT: If you install this same route BUILT for T:ANE *in* T:ANE... the faulty assets that were seen for TRS19 are now mostly GONE for T:ANE as well... so you have an immediate problem of trying to resolve a page full of not just "missing assets" but a half page of assets that *once* existed that DLS now has no concept of. Example: TOXA BATOXA's grass textures.
My only resolution with the paid route in trs19 was finally resort to "deleting missing assets" and attempt to edit the route myself to add working replacements. (Note: I'd expect that from a freeware route)
The way it stands now... any route put up for sale by a 3rd party needs to say more than "T:ANE and TRS19" supported. Something more along the lines of "This route was tested in 2018. Expiration Date: 2020 or the next time N3V does a mass DLS purge" where N3V essentially says "Take a chill pill and deal with it y'all".
Last edited:
Maybe people expect stuff too fast too soon
I grew up with Marklin HO model trains, every time my father had a business trip ,
he bought just 1 little item, the collection grew over the years
Now people expect to click 1 link and get a complete route for ridiculous low price or free
Every item in Trainz there are many hours behind it often.
Route builders cannot foresee, unneeded changes in the base game or sites/assets disappearing
Don't be afraid or frustrated if you do not get all at once.
Be happy with the base route and slow make it complete, see the changes
You learn the route much better, have the joy of adding something.
go slow, appreciate what you get and have fun.
I grew up with Marklin HO model trains, every time my father had a business trip ,
he bought just 1 little item, the collection grew over the years
Now people expect to click 1 link and get a complete route for ridiculous low price or free
Every item in Trainz there are many hours behind it often.
Route builders cannot foresee, unneeded changes in the base game or sites/assets disappearing
Don't be afraid or frustrated if you do not get all at once.
Be happy with the base route and slow make it complete, see the changes
You learn the route much better, have the joy of adding something.
go slow, appreciate what you get and have fun.
Great post! Thanks for that.
As a route creator with a many routes on the Download Station and a couple for sale through the Trainz Store my few cents worth:
For a payware route my expectation is that all the required dependencies should be either:
Supplied in the download package; or
Built-in; or
Downloadable from the Download Station.
The tricky part is what constitutes "built-in". Is it just the base install? Or the base install plus the additional four free routes that need to be downloaded separately? Or does it include all or some of the extra additional free downloads, for instance the JR pack?
And from the Download Station, there is always the risk that required content may be removed from the DLS or that some content might not be compatible with a Service Patch or a new version of Trainz.
I've had to update the routes of mine that were released with the TMR and then became available from the Trainz Store. And I've also had to update sessions that worked perfectly in the original TRS19 release but would not with the Service Patches, see for example Post 33 here:
https://forums.auran.com/trainz/sho...Zyd-amp-Fulazturn-DLC-layout-updated-to-TRS19
I'm not asking for any sympathy but the final question is where does my responsibility for my payware end?
Phil
For a payware route my expectation is that all the required dependencies should be either:
Supplied in the download package; or
Built-in; or
Downloadable from the Download Station.
The tricky part is what constitutes "built-in". Is it just the base install? Or the base install plus the additional four free routes that need to be downloaded separately? Or does it include all or some of the extra additional free downloads, for instance the JR pack?
And from the Download Station, there is always the risk that required content may be removed from the DLS or that some content might not be compatible with a Service Patch or a new version of Trainz.
I've had to update the routes of mine that were released with the TMR and then became available from the Trainz Store. And I've also had to update sessions that worked perfectly in the original TRS19 release but would not with the Service Patches, see for example Post 33 here:
https://forums.auran.com/trainz/sho...Zyd-amp-Fulazturn-DLC-layout-updated-to-TRS19
I'm not asking for any sympathy but the final question is where does my responsibility for my payware end?
Phil