How's UK railway dealing with the snow?

[wholbr]

Why is all of this political talk not a violation of the CoC? I'd like to see this thread get back on topic.
Mike

Hi Leefer And Everybody.
I thought I did attempt to bring the thread back on topic when I raised the subject of my journey up to London by rail, which included the cost, conditions and weather in that posting. However, in reply someone made a comment about the local government workers and their implied lack of action in the severe weather conditions which made another member of the forum and myself reply to that.

I can understand Leefer perhaps not being interested in the problems of government and local councils response to the severe weather conditions but it is a topic of hot debate here in Britain. Therefore. I am a little disappointed that our fellow Trainz fans in America are not interested in what goes on outside their own country. After all everybody else in the world is expected to follow what goes on in America.

Perhaps it is just as well that American influence in the world is not what it was. And again perhaps it is the same on this forum.

Anyway, I'm off to watch the football which is much more interesting and certainly a better sport than the American game of “rounders”, oh sorry baseball

Bill:hehe:

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

post deleted

 

[leeferr]

Hi Leefer And Everybody.
I thought I did attempt to bring the thread back on topic when I raised the subject of my journey up to London by rail, which included the cost, conditions and weather in that posting. However, in reply someone made a comment about the local government workers and their implied lack of action in the severe weather conditions which made another member of the forum and myself reply to that.

I can understand Leefer perhaps not being interested in the problems of government and local councils response to the severe weather conditions but it is a topic of hot debate here in Britain. Therefore. I am a little disappointed that our fellow Trainz fans in America are not interested in what goes on outside their own country. After all everybody else in the world is expected to follow what goes on in America.

Perhaps it is just as well that American influence in the world is not what it was. And again perhaps it is the same on this forum.

Anyway, I'm off to watch the football which is much more interesting and certainly a better sport than the American game of “rounders”, oh sorry baseball

Bill:hehe:

I did not intend to single you out and I apologize if you took it that way. I am well aware that you tried to steer the thread back on topic. You're wrong if you think we in America are not interested. Why would I be reading the thread if I wasn't interested, but a lot of the posts had absolutely nothing to do with government response to the snow. Everyone has a political point of view and the problem is that everyone thinks that his/hers is the only legitimate one. I don't mind legitimate conversation on how the government is reacting to these problems, but don't really want to hear biased political opinions on the Trainz forum. There are plenty of other platforms available to discuss politics.

Now, back on topic. I've traveled to quite a few places in the world, but I've never been to your part of the world. I'm not really familiar with the winter weather patterns there and was interested in how much snow England and the British Isles receives. I know that here in the southern U.S., we don't see a lot of snow and as a result, we don't invest a lot of money in snow removal equipment that will be sitting idle 95% of the time. When it snows, we just try to tough it out knowing that it won't last long.

Mike

 

[JCitron]

I find the railroads from other parts of the world to be fascinating, Bill. I've ridden the rails in UK back when BR was dismembering the system in the mid 1980s.

When it comes to snow, to bring this back on topic, the railroads have quite a dangerous battle to fight no matter where in the world.

Here are some photos from New England of the railroads fighting the snow.

http://photos.nerail.org/s/?p=162538

http://photos.nerail.org/s/?p=178229

http://photos.nerail.org/s/?p=173556

http://photos.nerail.org/s/?p=159027 <---- I've seen this before in action!


I can see how the weather can affect electric operations.

In the Boston area, the transit system, outside of the commuter rail, can come to a grinding halt during a snowstorm particularly when there's lots of ice build-up on the tracks.

The Orange and Red lines of the MBTA (Mass. Bay Transit Authority)'s two subway lines, have some above ground operations. In these sections, ice has been an issue when it builds up on the third-rail, causing the system to shutdown. The other problem with the trains on the Orange line is ice and snow getting into the relays. This causes the power to cut out, and simply disabling the train in the middle of nowhere.

The Blue Line, which has both catenary and third rail suffers from frozen pantographs. When the trains exit the tunnel near the Airport station, they raise their pantographs for the final leg to Wonderland station. The pantographs end up freezing down flat or up, causing the rail line to suffer from major delays particularly during rush hour.

The Green Line, trolley (tram, LRV) lines, have issues with frozen road crossings, switches, and the signal system.

When it comes to the commuter rail operations, which are not immune either from bad weather, there are signal problems. Two years ago, when we had the major ice storm, the commuter operations were halted. After the power was restored, there was still an issue with overhanging branches, and power outages with signals. The lines therefore were operated manually, which caused major delays. Last year there was a flooding issue, which put major sections of the Fitchburg line out of commission while the line was repaired.

As far as municipalities go, I think they're the same worldwide. Every year the city allocates a large sum of money to cover snow removal. We'll get our first storm soon. There will probably be a inch (2.5 cm) of snow. The plows will be out, scraping, salting, sanding and going all night like this is the biggest and worst storm of the century! Later on when there really is a big storm, no one will be out and the roads will be impassable. Why? Because the budget for snow removal was blown on the first nothing storm, so now we're stuck with a mess for the rest of the season.

John

 

[wholbr]

Hi Leefer, John and Everybody.
Of course I realize Leefer that you are not trying to single me out in your posting, and can I apologize to you and anyone else who may have been offended by anything I have stated on this thread but some comments have contained a number of issues that I hold as important principles to me especially over the last couple of days.


The problem was that a young HGV driver had been dismissed from his job following a serious accident in a depot where a unmanned vehicle suddenly ran away demolishing half the warehouse. A health and safety accident investigation I carried out demonstrated that over 80% of the responsibility for the accident was caused by the irresponsible actions of the depot manager, the very person who had sacked the driver.


When I was in London on Thursday i was informed it was very likely that the depot manager would be dismissed at his disciplinary hearing on Friday (which has turned out to be the case). However, nobody was prepared to advise me that the driver would be reinstated following the one check that he admittedly did not carry out, and that has lay heavy with me over the last couple of days.


However, this morning I had an e-mail from the on-site union rep that the driver is to be reinstated tomorrow with no loss of earnings so my faith in the human race has been restored and that along with the fact that Liverpool lost 3-1 last night very much puts the world to rights And I thought I should explain that


Anyway, to get the thread back on topic, it would seem to me that the major problem we have here in Britain regarding how we deal with bad weather in winter is the fact that no one can state exactly what the weather is going to be like from one year to the next.


Prior to last year Britain has had a run of mild winters where had councils, railways and/or government spent large amounts of money on additional snow clearing equipment then without doubt they would have been heavily criticized. However, with two winters of severe weather now under our belts the criticism is going the other way.


With railways heavily reliant on DMUs where much of the electrical equipment is installed under the vehicles it is fair to say they have performed abysmally. Likewise on the roads most councils are only equipped with relative light gritting vehicles and snowplows in the main are just attachments put on the front of every day working Council vehicles. Whether we should or should not spend large amounts on improving the foregoing is Hobson's choice and one I would be glad I do not have to make.


Having said the above, one thing I think should be taken into real consideration is the fact that the distribution system here in Britain is based on the fact that no companys hold any stock anymore and that is especially prevalent in the retail food industry.


Therefore it would not take more than a few days with the motorways throughout the country to be blocked as they were in Scotland for the whole of the UK to face disaster.


It is worth remembering when you walk into your local supermarket that the only stock they have is what you see on the shelves in front of you. Not only the the retail stores but also the distribution centres that supply them rely on daily deliveries from suppliers to maintain their service.


That is why when I saw how quickly the total breakdown of the road network around Glasgow took place I honestly found it a very frightening situation as it could so easily take place throughout the country.


Just a thought on where you might like your taxes to be spent.


Bill

 

[leeferr]

Bill
I certainly appreciate the insight into the problems there. I actually find it quite interesting to see how things are approached in other countries. I live in a part of the U.S. where there is no passenger rail service to speak of, so we depend entirely on roadways for delivery of supplies and passengers. When snow is predicted, people tend to hit the grocery stores and stock up for several days of 'downtime'. I've had several friends in the grocery business, and they've all told me that the large supermarkets generally have enough stock to last a few days and that the distribution warehouses generally stock enough to last about two weeks. You can see from this that in the event of a major event and the inability to restock the distribution warehouses, people could be in a dire situation.

The movement of people can be just a crippling. Here in the south, we tend to get more ice storms than we do snow storms. Personally, I'd much rather drive on snow than I had ice and when we have an ice storm, most businesses wind up running on minimal staff, if they can open at all, because workers simply can't get to work, or won't risk getting stranded out in the icy weather.

I can't speak for people in the northern part of the country here, but they seem to cope fairly well. Of course, they have invested more heavily in equipment to deal with the various weather conditions and are certainly more acclamated to it. I'd like to hear how well they cope with it, especially in the northeast corridor where passenger rail is more prevalent. We may very well be hearing from them with the blizzard that they are experiencing right now.

Mike

 

[Euphod]

Well the wind is howling outside and blowing what little snow has fallen to this point horizontally. It's taken out my Christmas decorations on my patio even though they were tied down. The ice on my car may have to be chiseled off before driving, but I've not heard of any effects on the local transportation system. Metra is running on time, I'm sure the switch motor heaters are humming, and no word of delays in the news from the CTA. Remember the tracks are maintained by the UP and by BNSF where they own the trackage. I think they both know a thing or two about snow, ice and freezing wind...

 

[ZecMurphy]

Guys
I think this thread has now run it's coarse, and is now closed.

Thank you