How to accurately place points, signals, connections?

[fourjays5000]

Hey,
I'm currently working on a UK, standard gauge "steam preservation" kind of line (it's a total remake of my old Wyndney Bay route), and am looking for some advice regards the points and signals as I want to make them look good. I've looked at the "Points" in TS2010 and they seem OK, although there are no doubt better models on the DLS (please advise). I want to "rig" all the points and signals up to the signal box as appropriate though using the "connecting rod" items (or similar) in TS2010.

However, after a good hour of searching I am struggling to find much in the way of information on the subject. Can anyone explain the best way to accurately represent this to me, or point ( :hehe: ) me in the direction of some solid and clear information? See screen 1 for an example which I've yet to "point up".

Same for signals, although I already understand that semaphore "Home" is equivalent to a 2 way traffic light and "Distant" is a pre-warning. However I came across a good looking set on the DLS (see screen 2 for the set I'm using - sorry I don't know who they are's but they look fabulous) that include fancy ones with multiple signals on a "bracket" which confuse me. They seem to work similar to the modern UK signals with the left right indicator. But I don't really know how to apply them realistically. Whenever I've used semaphores before I just use them kind of like traffic light signals which never looks right somehow...

Screen 1:


Screen 2:


Thanks

 

[itareus]

Couple of quick pointers (HoHo)....

Prototype signalling:

http://www.signalbox.org/ (Links to other siganlling sites from here).

Basic guide to TC3 (and later) signalling:

http://www.trainzclassics.co.uk/ (Under Guides, TC3 Signalling Tutorial).

Cheers

 

[fourjays5000]

Thanks, the TC3 article has helped a lot with the signals types and their uses. Still unsure about how to correctly "model" the connecting rods to signals/points though. Do they just run straight along the track from the signal/points to the appropriate signal/junction box? Does anything go between? Pictures or diagrams would be quite useful if you know of any.

Tried Googling for information a few times but I mostly get modern stuff.

 

[lewisner]

"fourjays" I normally use "Point Connecting Rods 1, 2 and 4 by Natvander.The important thing to remember with is that they should ideally cross the track the minimum number of times and with the fewest corners possible.So, if possible the box will be directly opposite the major concentration of points (say, a double track junction) so that the rods come straight out of the box and straight to the points.If possible the rest of the rods will be on the same side of the track and if they need to be on the opposite side there will be a 90 degree crank with the rod going under the track, just under rail level.
If points are "facing" traffic they will have Facing Point Locks (FPL's) so they will be worked by TWO rods - one for the points and one for the FPL. If the rods work a Crossover (your 1st shot) both sets of points will be worked from the same rod so "Trailing Crossover" is worked by ONE rod and a "Facing Crossover" is worked by TWO rods - one rod each for Points and FPL's.
If you want signalwires look on the DLS for "Stelldraht 1x, 2x and 3x".

P.S if you want to be ultra realistic the rule on the real railways is - The MAXIMUM distance for working points by rod from a signalbox is 400 yards. Any further than that and they have to be worked from a ground frame or by point motor.


Hope this helps.

 

[fourjays5000]

"fourjays" I normally use "Point Connecting Rods 1, 2 and 4 by Natvander.The important thing to remember with is that they should ideally cross the track the minimum number of times and with the fewest corners possible.So, if possible the box will be directly opposite the major concentration of points (say, a double track junction) so that the rods come straight out of the box and straight to the points.If possible the rest of the rods will be on the same side of the track and if they need to be on the opposite side there will be a 90 degree crank with the rod going under the track, just under rail level.
If points are "facing" traffic they will have Facing Point Locks (FPL's) so they will be worked by TWO rods - one for the points and one for the FPL. If the rods work a Crossover (your 1st shot) both sets of points will be worked from the same rod so "Trailing Crossover" is worked by ONE rod and a "Facing Crossover" is worked by TWO rods - one rod each for Points and FPL's.
If you want signalwires look on the DLS for "Stelldraht 1x, 2x and 3x".

P.S if you want to be ultra realistic the rule on the real railways is - The MAXIMUM distance for working points by rod from a signalbox is 400 yards. Any further than that and they have to be worked from a ground frame or by point motor.


Hope this helps.

I had to look up those terms but I think I've managed to figure it out. Is the following diagram of it roughly correct (the straight side of the E shape over the junction is meant to represent the "rod side" of the "Points" object):



Also, any advice regards the use of the shunting disc signals? I gather they are basically used the same (in reality) as a "home" semaphore?

Thanks again

 

[Gary25b]

good tutorial in signal placement

http://trains.0catch.com/Tut4-IntroToSignaling.htm

 

[itareus]

As you have found out there is little information available on the web re point rodding. The best I have been able to dig up is an article in the Model Railway Journal (a respected source), see the links below.

Article:

http://www.modelrailwayjournal.com/index.php?o=&s=point+rodding&t=All&g=0 (part one describes the prototype)

I don't think this is available online so you might need to obtain the back issue:

http://www.modelrailwayjournal.com/purchase.php

***

There are some good shunt signals on the TC3 website http://www.trainzclassics.co.uk/ under Content > Additional Signals but you may need TC3 or the S&C add on for the dependancies. I'm not sure if these are on the DLS but check for Author = FranceLineTony.

These web pages give more info on prototype shunt signals:

http://www.signalbox.org/signals/semaphore4.htm

http://www.signalbox.org/signals/semaphore7.htm

Cheers

 

[fourjays5000]

The shunt signals on the TC3 site seem to be the same ones I found in TS2010. I didn't notice the page about shunting signals when I looked there before, although I did find this: http://www.signalbox.org/block/absolute08.htm

Definitely understand the signals a bit better now. Will post some screenshots later of what I've done to see what peoples opinions are.

 

[pfx]

I use TS2009 so I'm not sure if the following items will work in TS2010 (perhaps someone else will confirm this or not so you don't waste your time).

I would suggest you try downloading the additional semaphore signals from www.settleandcarlisle.co.uk. As far as I know, you can get these without actually having the Settle and Carlisle add-on pack. You'll find some great shunting signals, both miniature and disc and they may help get a bit more of the feel your after.

 

[fourjays5000]

Sorry it has been a few days since I said I'd post some screenshots. Let me know if these look fairly accurate (doesn't need to be 100%).

I've got the signal box controlling the station entrance, with a point rod running to another set of points further up the line (within 400 yards ).



Then I have the other end of station controlled by two sets of ground levers - one for the "yard" section and one for the "run-around". I don't know if this is at all an accurate way of doing it, but it seemed to become rather difficult to connect them to the signal box while keeping lewisner's comments above in mind. So I tried to put myself in the shoes of the man trying to make the points work from the trackside, and it seemed most logical that they would be close-by and ground controlled rather than having a second signal box (as they are at the end of a small, unimportant line). I then placed them separately as a run-around would be needed near the location of the locomotive and the small yard would have its own needs. As I said I don't know how accurate this is, but it made sense as I was doing it.

Yard:


Run-around:


All comments/feedback/corrections/advice appreciated. Many thanks