How Long Does Copyright Last on Books in the UK?

[sterrett]

Do any legal eagles out there know how long the term of copyright exists on books published in the UK please?

The reason I am asking is that I have quite a range of "out of print" railway books which I would like to share with like-minded enthusiasts on the internet without charge (although if the beneficiary would care to donate a little something to "Blue Cross" then my little rescue dog would be very grateful!) I don't want to fall foul of the law, however. The authors are either very, very old men or, most likely, gone to meet their makers like the legendary photographer O.S. "Ozzie" Nock.

Thank you for your help.

 

[stovepipe]

It varies depending on the date of publication. For new books it's 70 years after the last author dies, for earlier years I think it maybe somewhat less.

 

[Enkidoh]

It also varies from country to country as well. Some countries additionally have 'fair dealing' clauses as well on copyright (for instance, here in Australia under 'fair dealing' you're allowed to copy no more than 20% of a published work if it's only for 'private study, reference or review' - in other words, a complete publication cannot be copied, but only a portion of it.).

But the 'lifetime plus 70' law is usually common to most countries.

 

[NSWGR_46Class]

It also varies from country to country as well. Some countries additionally have 'fair dealing' clauses as well on copyright (for instance, here in Australia under 'fair dealing' you're allowed to copy no more than 20% of a published work if it's only for 'private study, reference or review' - in other words, a complete publication cannot be copied, but only a portion of it.).

But the 'lifetime plus 70' law is usually common to most countries.

Think you will find its only 10% and for private study only - you can not copy 10% of a work and than hand it out to a class of students. When I worked for the NSW TAFE Commission there was a big list of do's and don'ts next to most copy machines.

Addit just copied this from the policy of the mob I work for now ...

Books and literature
You may copy 10% of the pages in an edition of a book or one chapter, whichever is the greater number of pages. Each edition of a work is considered a separate work for the sake of copyright. You may therefore copy up to 10% from each edition of the work. The insubstantial portion rule applies to books and literature.

 

[sterrett]

Thanks for your replies. It looks like I can only reproduce up to 10% of the books then - still, that might help somebody.

Just to clarify, for example, the book I am looking at now - "The Withered Arm - Reminisces of the Southern Lines West of Exeter by T.W.E.Roche" was first published in 1967 and re-printed as a "New Edition" in 1977. Mr Roche states that he was six and a half in 1926 so that would make him at least 92, assuming he is still around. That means, despite the fact that his book is out of print, unlikely to be re-published and, as the content matter is highly specialised and of interest only to a limited audience the copyright will hold until at least 2082, long after I am dead and gone?

I can understand the copyright laws affecting very popular books or movies (J K Rowling's "Harry Potter" for example) but not non-fiction work of limited appeal. I had the devil's own job trying to get hold of an out of print book for my daughter when she was reading English Literature at university - in the end, I found it on ebay from the USA and the postage of the heavy tome was nearly as mch as the book itself!

 

[clam1952]

Probably need to look here, I read it as Life plus 70 years in the UK http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/copy/c-duration/c-types.htm

The term of protection or duration of copyright varies depending on the type of copyright work. The term of protection in the UK for an original written (literary), theatrical (dramatic) musical or artistic work lasts for the life of the creator plus 70 years from the end of the year in which he/she died.

 

[sterrett]

Thanks. Maybe if I can compile my own history, using no more than 10% of quotes and pictures from each book, I can compile my own history of the railway without risk of infringement.

 

[whitepass]

In the US it's 100 years.

 

[johnwhelan]

The first Georgette Heyer is out of copyright in the US but not in the UK or Canada.

The 10% rule I don't think applies in the UK, I think you are allowed to make copies for research or private use. So some one could take a scan of your books for personal use. The other issue is who owns the copyright? They may not object to you making copies or you maybe able to have them put the scans up on smashwords etc and get them a few royalties. More than a few authors have done this.

Cheerio John

 

[wholbr]

Hi Everybody.
By coincidence we have a similar problem within the office at work. We are trying to write a safe working procedures document for a plastic hotline processing plant. The manufacturers of the plant have a patent on the manufacturing system which includes the operating procedures for the plant.

We wish to mix the operating instructions with our newly written safety instructions but are being informed that any plagiarising of the manufacturers written operating instructions into our safety procedures document would be an infringement of copyright which would be contained within the Patent. The original manufacturer of the plant system is now out of business but our solicitors are informing us that the patent would still stand and may be in the hands of someone else.

There are some great brains on this forum and I have little faith in solicitors, so anybody got any ideas on where we might be able to check this out or if the above is correct.

Bill

 

[johnwhelan]

Hi Everybody.
By coincidence we have a similar problem within the office at work. We are trying to write a safe working procedures document for a plastic hotline processing plant. The manufacturers of the plant have a patent on the manufacturing system which includes the operating procedures for the plant.

We wish to mix the operating instructions with our newly written safety instructions but are being informed that any plagiarising of the manufacturers written operating instructions into our safety procedures document would be an infringement of copyright which would be contained within the Patent. The original manufacturer of the plant system is now out of business but our solicitors are informing us that the patent would still stand and may be in the hands of someone else.

There are some great brains on this forum and I have little faith in solicitors, so anybody got any ideas on where we might be able to check this out or if the above is correct.

Bill

In computer security we used TRA to evaluate risk, or Threat Risk Assessment. Basically if we are talking about a dozen copies max and the original manufacturer is not available to supply an updated copy that reflects the required safety procedures then I would recommend going ahead. If some one contacts you then I would point out that you have done a TRA on the safety side and that has dictated that the safety procedures are documented and ask them to supply an updated procedures manual that reflects the required changes. I would document it in a letter to the supplier at their last known address and send it recorded delivery.

You might also tie this back to ISO 9000 which is all about documenting procedures. Many companies use it and often it is a requirement for government contracts.

It's a reasonable man approach just make sure its documented and the documents are kept. Many companies throw out anything more than five years old.

Cheerio John

 

[wholbr]

Hi John and everybody

In computer security we used TRA to evaluate risk, or Threat Risk Assessment. Basically if we are talking about a dozen copies max and the original manufacturer is not available to supply an updated copy that reflects the required safety procedures then I would recommend going ahead. If some one contacts you then I would point out that you have done a TRA on the safety side and that has dictated that the safety procedures are documented and ask them to supply an updated procedures manual that reflects the required changes. I would document it in a letter to the supplier at their last known address and send it recorded delivery.

You might also tie this back to ISO 9000 which is all about documenting procedures. Many companies use it and often it is a requirement for government contracts.

It's a reasonable man approach just make sure its documented and the documents are kept. Many companies throw out anything more than five years old.

Cheerio John

Thanks for the advice John but our problem is (similar to the opening poster) is that we wish to use just sections of the plant manufacturers written operating procedures to which our safety procedures will be added. The original operating procedure was written in the early 1970s and did not contain any substantial safety procedures. An updated hotline processing plant has been installed into the new factory in Manchester but it is still based on the original patent idea. Following an accident we have been requested by the plant insurers to bring forward substantial new safety procedures.

In the above we will obviously need to reference the laid down operating procedures organised within our safety procedures and that is where we will infringe the copyright or so we are being advised.

Any further advice would be gratefully received by me and I am sure the opening poster
Bill

 

[clam1952]

Hi John and everybody



In the above we will obviously need to reference the laid down operating procedures organised within our safety procedures and that is where we will infringe the copyright or so we are being advised.

Any further advice would be gratefully received by me and I am sure the opening poster
Bill

How about asking the HSE? I have a feeling Health and Safety may override copyright on something like this.

 

[ray_whiley]

It should be remembered that the publisher owns copyright of a printed edition of any book in addition to the author's copyright of the text; this prevents (for example) pictures, diagrams etc. from being copied and published.

See the copyright notice included at the beginning of books referring to 'copying by any means'.

Of course, there should be no problem using published facts which are common knowledge provided one uses one's own words rather than literally copying those of another. (My personal opinion as I have no legal background.)

A good reference work for guidance on copyright (and many other things associated with publishing) is the 'Oxford Style Manual', OUP, ISBN 0-19-860564-1, Chapter 14 'Copyright and other publishing responsibilities.'

Ray

 

[stovepipe]

Given the choice between a criminal prosecution for breach of health and safety law or civil one for copyright, I know which I'd choose.

The Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 placed a responsbility on employers for the 'provision and maintenance of plant and systems of work that are, so far as is reasonably practicable, safe and without risks to health', amongst other things. This in reality obliges you to potentially breach copyright to discharge your duties as employer under health and safety law, and this takes precedence. In any case unless the operating instructions were authored by a named individual, the operating procedures will be associated with the patent, which I would guess has expired after 40 years?

 

[johnwhelan]

Hi John and everybody


Thanks for the advice John but our problem is (similar to the opening poster) is that we wish to use just sections of the plant manufacturers written operating procedures to which our safety procedures will be added. The original operating procedure was written in the early 1970s and did not contain any substantial safety procedures. An updated hotline processing plant has been installed into the new factory in Manchester but it is still based on the original patent idea. Following an accident we have been requested by the plant insurers to bring forward substantial new safety procedures.

In the above we will obviously need to reference the laid down operating procedures organised within our safety procedures and that is where we will infringe the copyright or so we are being advised.

Any further advice would be gratefully received by me and I am sure the opening poster
Bill

If your plant insurers are requesting it then I think your choice is between doing it or scrapping the equipment. My comment about sending a formal letter to their last known address is to demonstrate you have taken all reasonable steps. The legal position is not clear and without going to the house of lords will never be completely clear but the intention here is to protect the health and safety of your staff and that to me takes precedence. If you have a union on site, it might be worthwhile asking for input from them. Thinking back to my shop steward days we actually had a few specialists we could draw on.

Cheerio John