heard the news, This new movie is nothing good

[djt]

Most railfans, do know more than the average RR employee !

Know more about what?


I've spent most of my adult life in the US railroad industry, some of that time as an operating rules instructor teaching new hire employees.


I lost count of how many “know it all rail fans” that have come through the training program and found out the hard way that well, guess what, they don't know it all. Most of them that actually did get through training we're gone after six months.

Some physicly hide in the woods, or in Car Inspector offices as "lounge lizzards", and in MOW trucks, as ghost employees ... working only when the boss is around.

Lol, really, what railroad is that, I love to know. I've worked for three class one railroads and I haven't seen anyone who's gotten away with what you've described. If they did they probably didn't last long.

 

[steviez]

I am sorry to take issue with the person quoting that railfans know more about operating that the staff, having retired after 30 years on the railways here in the uk and working my way up from floor sweeper and dogsbody to senior supervisor i know for a fact that anyone who goes nar a railway line in any shape or form has to be highly trained, very well motivated and have an absolute respect for the railway rule book here. I have not come across any railfan who thought he/she knew more than the people i worked with or myself, maybe its different in the USA as we invented the "flaming contraption" in the first place. and our rule book is built on and used to maintain a safe enviroment in which to work.

 

[evan123]

Know more about what?


I've spent most of my adult life in the US railroad industry, some of that time as an operating rules instructor teaching new hire employees.

Yeah I'd love to know how many rail fans know how to conduct a Class 1A Initial Terminal air test, hell or even know how to replace an 80lbs knuckle.

 

[djt]

Yeah I'd love to know how many rail fans know how to conduct a Class 1A Initial Terminal air test, hell or even know how to replace an 80lbs knuckle.

Yeah,that's just for starters and when they get done learning and passing tests on the safety rules, operating rules, hazardous materials instruction for rail, air brake and train handling rules, equipment handling rules and signal aspect & indication rules they have to get qualified out in the field.


Then comes the final weeding out process, actually getting marked up and working an extra board. If they make it through above mentioned training a lot of them usually don't last very long working month after month getting called out on their rest. Weekends, Holidays, 0200 hours or 1300 hours, rain or shine makes no difference when you work for the railroad.

 

[R1XXhitech]

Atomic Train is downright awful! And I won't even go near the newest Pelham 123! The 70's version was respectable.

I don't care how it was done in the new Pelham 123, you simply cannot pull off a heist like that in present day NYC subway!

Unfortunately, "Unstoppable" is being directed by Tony Scott, the same guy who thinks R142As are driven from the left and that you can send a runaway single R142A from Park Avenue to Coney Island by way of Shea Stadium (come on, really? ) when almost everything about that is so impossible that even out-of-towners who only saw The Map once could point that out. Both the 1974 film and the book had the runaway car (an R22 capable of single-unit operation) sent toward the South Ferry loop, which is entirely possible.

In terms of the quality of the films, the new one completely wrecked the story. I mean, seriously, even though Garber was forced by Ryder to shoot him (sorry if I spoiled it for you), Garber would probably have wound up in court. Ryder was just a [bleep]ing psycho coward in the new version because he wasn't man enough to commit suicide like the book and the '74 version, plus the '74 version was more believable (reminds me of Hans Landa from "Inglourious Basterds") and didn't pepper all of his sentences with cluster f-bombs. On that subject, the '74 version wasn't 100% loyal to the book either, but it still left many shades of the book intact and as a result, still felt very believable. The '09 version was clearly going for the glitz and glamor and fell flat with 49% of the critics (according to Rotten Tomatoes), as opposed to the original which received no negativity from Rotten Tomatoes.

On the subject of "Unstoppable", you need to dramatize the film, or else that just constitutes enough material for a one-hour National Geographic special and will get you much less money. Overdoing it, however, can cause a disaster of a film and maybe a few Razzie nominations.

Tony Scott already failed "Pelham 123", geography, and overall New York-ism forever and is already not doing too good with railroading. "Unstoppable" looks like it could be the same and it could wind up sinking him deeper, but there could be the potential that it might be better than "Pelham" and could win many people over, but we have to wait and see. After all, this film is still not coming out until November 12.

 

[sawyer811]

Time to break up the fight and get back on topic...

Okay, just watched the trailer for the movie on YouTube and guess what words were said..."There's a crewless train out there with no air brakes.." This brings me back to my original point...the original Crazy Eights incident might have been caused by the engine being in run 8 with the dead man's pedal (or whatever she has) disengaged by the brakes being set at 20psi, but in this movie we've gone back to the age-old stereotype for runaway trains, "we've got no airbrakes." agian i want to re-iderate the idea of the dead-man's switch/pedal. if the button is not pushed every 45 seconds (or 30 seconds above 45mph), an audio warning sounds. if that warning continues for 60 seconds without the button or pedal being depressed, the train goes into emergency. the only way to disengage said switch/pedal is to set the brakes hard for a stop. the only way crazy eights was able to get away with it was because her brake hoses weren't hooked to the cars she was pulling (and i assume they were charged to keep the brakes off?) so she just had to overcome her own brakes to get under way. that she could easily do. trains cannot leave the yard without inspecting the brakes. they'd catch something that could lead to a failure. and even IF the dead man's pedal was disengaged, those three engines would have to overcome ninety-plus cars set in what is essentailly emergency braking, something i doubt they could do.

 

[cascaderailroad]

Everybody assumes that the Westinghouse positive air pressure system that trains use is infalable. A drop in air pressure in the trainline usually stops a train, (which in most cases it does) cause emergency braking.

But if a trains resiviors are not charged, and the air resivoirs are empty ... there will be no air pressure to push out on the air cylinder piston.

If a train loses all air pressure, or the engineer repeatedly applies and piss's off all of its air brake resivior pressure, a train can lose all braking, including having no emergency braking capabilities. That 4"-10" brake cylinder piston only comes out if the a trains resivoirs are charged.

There are many reasons why a locomotive can lose all resivoir air pressure, due to various malfunctions, or excessive piston travel (11" or greater).
And if the air compressor is malfunctioning the engineer will never be able to pump up the resiviors, thus disabling the deadmans brake.

EDIT: The deadmans switch acts just like the Emergency handle position, dumping all the air the trainline. But if he train also has discharged resivoirs there are no brakes.

A train on the "Slide" (an 11 mile downhill grade to Altoona via the "Horseshoe"), once lost its air, in the late 1990's, and quickly lost control. Within several minutes of the crew radio transmission the train rounded the "Curve" in excss of 60mph and derailed at MP 241. If it had made it all the way to Altoona they would have had only @ 10 minutes warning ... not enough time for evacuation.

 

[sawyer811]

okay, that makes sense, but out of curiosity, what's the probablity of that happening? seems kinda improbable, like one of those things where twenty different actions have to happen in the right sequence for it to go wrong.

still, if it can happen, then i can see a slim thread of plausibility hanging on to this movie.

PS talking as the idiot that doesn't fully understand the deadman's switch, if the air pressure is gone, would the deadman's pedal just apply the engine brakes or something? or if it loses the air is that it?

 

[Klinger]

okay, that makes sense, but out of curiosity, what's the probablity of that happening? seems kinda improbable, like one of those things where twenty different actions have to happen in the right sequence for it to go wrong.

still, if it can happen, then i can see a slim thread of plausibility hanging on to this movie.

PS talking as the idiot that doesn't fully understand the deadman's switch, if the air pressure is gone, would the deadman's pedal just apply the engine brakes or something? or if it loses the air is that it?

Honestly, I don't know, but the fact remains it DID happen to Crazy Eights, and that's the event this movie is based off of, if you want to know the whole truth try and dig up the NTSB report on the Crazy Eights incident

Yes, the movie will be Hollywood, and actually AC4400's dead man button is far safer. the movie would be a tad more believable if they had used SD40-2's, which is after all what Crazy Eights is, since it actually has happened to those locomotives.

 

[William0d0]

Honestly, I don't know, but the fact remains it DID happen to Crazy Eights, and that's the event this movie is based off of, if you want to know the whole truth try and dig up the NTSB report on the Crazy Eights incident

Yes, the movie will be Hollywood, and actually AC4400's dead man button is far safer. the movie would be a tad more believable if they had used SD40-2's, which is after all what Crazy Eights is, since it actually has happened to those locomotives.

I found this http://kohlin.com/CSX8888/z-final-report.htm with google.

 

[djt]

i want to re-iderate the idea of the dead-man's switch/pedal. if the button is not pushed every 45 seconds (or 30 seconds above 45mph), an audio warning sounds. if that warning continues for 60 seconds without the button or pedal being depressed, the train goes into emergency.

First off I haven't been at the throttle of a locomotive with a dead-man's pedal since probably the late 1990's, we call it an alerter now.


Secondly not responding to the alerter does not cause the brakes to go into emergency, it's called a penalty brake application. The reduction by the penalty brake application is done at a service rate not by just dumping the air.

 

[djt]

A drop in air pressure in the trainline usually stops a train, (which in most cases it does) cause emergency braking.

That drop in air pressure has to exceed a certain CFM before it triggers a control valve into an emergency brake application.

 

[djt]

out of curiosity, what's the probablity of that happening? seems kinda improbable, like one of those things where twenty different actions have to happen in the right sequence for it to go wrong.

Exactly, just as you'll read in the report on the incident that William0d0 posted a link to -

I found this http://kohlin.com/CSX8888/z-final-report.htm with google.

 

[evan123]

Yeah,that's just for starters and when they get done learning and passing tests on the safety rules, operating rules, hazardous materials instruction for rail, air brake and train handling rules, equipment handling rules and signal aspect & indication rules they have to get qualified out in the field.


Then comes the final weeding out process, actually getting marked up and working an extra board. If they make it through above mentioned training a lot of them usually don't last very long working month after month getting called out on their rest. Weekends, Holidays, 0200 hours or 1300 hours, rain or shine makes no difference when you work for the railroad.

Yeah the final process running trains on your probationary period is like walking on needles. Hell technically they can fire you if the sky is blue. Will they? Probably not. Just saying. Getting to an interview and going through the gauntlet I think is the easiest part, the test doesn't start till you get passed the probation. But hey that's just me some people have a struggle going through the gauntlet then running trains and visa versa.

 

[djt]

Yeah the final process running trains on your probationary period is like walking on needles. Hell technically they can fire you if the sky is blue. Will they? Probably not. Just saying. Getting to an interview and going through the gauntlet I think is the easiest part, the test doesn't start till you get passed the probation. But hey that's just me some people have a struggle going through the gauntlet then running trains and visa versa.

Come on, that's all easy stuff for a seasoned train watcher, nothing to it right, lol.

 

[evan123]

Come on, that's all easy stuff for a seasoned train watcher, nothing to it right, lol.

lol riiiiiight. Just after you remember all of your railroads SSI's and division's timetable!

 

[sawyer811]

First off I haven't been at the throttle of a locomotive with a dead-man's pedal since probably the late 1990's, we call it an alerter now.


Secondly not responding to the alerter does not cause the brakes to go into emergency, it's called a penalty brake application. The reduction by the penalty brake application is done at a service rate not by just dumping the air.

i know, i'm just used to crawling around this old GP-9 at a museum near my house so i still call it a dead-man's switch. sorry for my bad lingo.

 

[sawyer811]

Honestly, I don't know, but the fact remains it DID happen to Crazy Eights, and that's the event this movie is based off of, if you want to know the whole truth try and dig up the NTSB report on the Crazy Eights incident

Yes, the movie will be Hollywood, and actually AC4400's dead man button is far safer. the movie would be a tad more believable if they had used SD40-2's, which is after all what Crazy Eights is, since it actually has happened to those locomotives.

If i read the report right, she had her brakes in 20lb draw, but the cars weren't tied in to her air pipes, so only her brakes were on. i guess that's how she awas able to get underway.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

well some of the other trailers do show it happening just like the 8888. guy left the cab for a switch in the yard like an idiot.

 

[sawyer811]

i know, what brainiac trained them?