It's definitely a many-steps backward and a single step forward here situation here. I agree a poll would've been useful. Given the size of my route, a mix of 5 and 10 meter grid baseboards, some DEM, some HOG, much built by hand in between. At 2.0 GBs in size after converting, and losing textures to boot, I was quite disheartened. It's a nice to have feature but definitely not ready for mainstream or for what it should be used for.
HD terrain and TransDEM textures
- Thread starter martinvk
- Start date
The terrain will convert but the textures get lost if the topographic map has been included with the route. When I converted a TransDEM generated route, I ended up with a smeared and missing textures a bunch were deleted. This made locating buildings, tracks, and other features impossible.
Hmmm I seem to remember when all we had was the 10m grid and simple ground textures, that people were complaining how they could not model realistic hills and valleys, too many sharp peaks.
Then the 5m grid was introduced and it only required 4 times the calculation effort but those with powerful enough computers and GPUs didn't mind. But it wasn't enough for some, they wanted an even finer grid and never mind the computational cost and size. Computers are always getting more powerful and storage is pretty cheap these days so now we are getting HD terrain.
Brings to mind the old saying, careful what you wish for.
Then the 5m grid was introduced and it only required 4 times the calculation effort but those with powerful enough computers and GPUs didn't mind. But it wasn't enough for some, they wanted an even finer grid and never mind the computational cost and size. Computers are always getting more powerful and storage is pretty cheap these days so now we are getting HD terrain.
Brings to mind the old saying, careful what you wish for.
True, so I would locate all the buildings and other DEM topo info before converting to the HD grid. A bit of a two step process and the first part has to be completed before the second part.
Another possibility is to include the OSM data feature in TransDEM to create specialized splines to locate various items like, roads, sidewalks, rivers, etc. Even building outlines. Since each isolated object becomes a continuous spline, they tend to look funny until you separate the spline junctions, then each segment becomes a straight segment. They can all be on different layers so using the select all feature in S2.0, they can all be split in one pass.
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Very true. In that case I wish that, before granting any future wishes, the Genie advises me of what I will also lose!
Genie: You wish for world peace? Granted.
Me: But everyone else on the planet is dead! I'm the only one left!
Genie:
capdiamont
Active member
The other issue with converting a route built with DEM data from 5/10m to HD, is the resolution of the height data is still 5/10m. You can manually add more height data details. It is like blowing up a photo.
DEM data is very high resolution, which is best to go directly to HD terrain to preserve as much detail as possible.
Indeed. It's no different that smearing a skim coat of plaster of Paris across the surface if 5- or 10-meter grid data is used. Real HD terrain DEMs are a nice have, but the file size will be huge before even starting the route, and that presents a bigger problem when it comes to editing. As robust as TRS22 is with large files internally, there's still going to be a hard limit where everything comes crashing down. This will be the physical limit of the data and our hardware unfortunately, just like the 16-color limit we're facing now.
I understand where they're coming from but this should have been explained way in the beginning what the virtues and caveats are of HD terrain. The problem? As usual M&S, aka Marketing and Spin, is in one room talking to a lamppost while R&D is playing in the lab with no one saying anything about anything they've developed or any updates for that matter until the updates are released. We run into this with surprises with scripts and content all the time just the same.
That’s not good and the whole situation just negates even more the necessity of paying another £55 to get 22PE.
Roland has done more to facilitate the use of Trainz for prototype routes than N3V ever did and it is shameful that they just stonewalled him over this. In any event and If N3V aren’t going to budge on this, it’s high time they got their fingers out and gave Trainz native DEM import and mapping/marker overlay that we have taken for granted for years in the other sims. It is N3V’s lack of vision or progress on this issue that led to Transdem being created in the first place.
Oh well, good news that TSW4 is coming with an editor that includes DEM import with LIDAR data and mapping overlay in real world projection.
That's very weird. HD Terrain seems to be an incredible game-changer, and TransDEM is such a well used utility for Trainz...why not just bundle it? It's not strange for Trainz to come with an extra utility, TRS2006 (yea this was 20 years ago but still) came bundled with an app that let you view the trackwork of a route. Why not just bundle in a utility as ubiquitous as TransDEM, or at least let him know how to use the new standard?
That just seems very weird. I'm not sure why, but I just have this feeling that Trainz is slowly but surely becoming more corporate. First with Trainz+, which is sorta understandable, then with HD Terrain, and now with TRS22PE not giving a discount for current owners. I feel Trainz as a franchise is becoming like its competitor, TSW, which is bad because Trainz is no doubt the largest train sim franchise, so...I dunno. I am hopeful that this is just a tiny little bump in N3V's history, but at this point it's hard to say. But I have hope
EDIT: Just a bit off topic, but something I have an issue with is how the HST, Tornado and Class 11 are being handled for TRS22, being Trainz+ Gold exclusive DLC. I bought Tornado day 1 for TS3 on my phone, so that DLC had been finished for three months or so when TRS22 was announced. I don't have a problem with Trainz+ DLC, no that's fine. But I have an issue with locking these specific packs behind it, especially considering that they are part of the TRS22 promo material, even being included in that original trailer. Which gave me the impression it would be bundled with the game. But I digress. I see myself buying Trainz+ in the near future so I might just buy these when I get it
That just seems very weird. I'm not sure why, but I just have this feeling that Trainz is slowly but surely becoming more corporate. First with Trainz+, which is sorta understandable, then with HD Terrain, and now with TRS22PE not giving a discount for current owners. I feel Trainz as a franchise is becoming like its competitor, TSW, which is bad because Trainz is no doubt the largest train sim franchise, so...I dunno. I am hopeful that this is just a tiny little bump in N3V's history, but at this point it's hard to say. But I have hope
EDIT: Just a bit off topic, but something I have an issue with is how the HST, Tornado and Class 11 are being handled for TRS22, being Trainz+ Gold exclusive DLC. I bought Tornado day 1 for TS3 on my phone, so that DLC had been finished for three months or so when TRS22 was announced. I don't have a problem with Trainz+ DLC, no that's fine. But I have an issue with locking these specific packs behind it, especially considering that they are part of the TRS22 promo material, even being included in that original trailer. Which gave me the impression it would be bundled with the game. But I digress. I see myself buying Trainz+ in the near future so I might just buy these when I get it
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It is a bit of a head-scratcher when looking in from the outside but I do wonder if the view from the inside is the same?
As much as we all want or favourite itch to be scratched, the ROI might not allow it. We have the luxury of calling for this, that and the other to be fixed/improved since free speech is, well free, there is no cost. But when you have to pay the bills, ah, suddenly it's not so simple. Without the inside view, I'm prepared to cut them a lot of slack when it comes to fixes, changes and improvements.
After all, I can just walk away from any upgrade and stay pat at whatever version suits and I can continue to play with what I've got so far.
As much as we all want or favourite itch to be scratched, the ROI might not allow it. We have the luxury of calling for this, that and the other to be fixed/improved since free speech is, well free, there is no cost. But when you have to pay the bills, ah, suddenly it's not so simple. Without the inside view, I'm prepared to cut them a lot of slack when it comes to fixes, changes and improvements.
After all, I can just walk away from any upgrade and stay pat at whatever version suits and I can continue to play with what I've got so far.