Has ANYONE finished Walong Stall?

[frogpipe]

Without removing the couple breakage rule. If so, how?

I tried and tried, then got tired of the run up to Walong, so I saved it when I had arrived at the last RED signal. Then tried some more. Then contacted JR and asked what was up.

I sent:

Since you folks made the Mojave Route, I thought you'd be the ones to ask.

There's a great deal of speculation and opinion on the matter of breaking couplers in the Mojave route.

I am writing to find out the official position from the source that counts. Jointed Rail, the authors.

I am running Walong Stall, I saved the session after hooking up to the stalled consist.

When I try and pull forward I get, at some point, broken couplers.

I have:

• released brakes, notch 2 I am pulled backwards, notch 3 I move slowly forward (though the ammeter is pinned full redline)
• release brakes and waited to start moving in reverse, then applied notch 2, then 3
• notch 3 first, then release brakes
• released brakes, notch ZERO, and let the train roll backwards (my goal was to get off the grade, then "make a run for it", but the couplers broke when I was rolling backwards with no power or brakes applied)

So... thoughts? I can do things like change the physics rule or remove it, but I'd rather have an "official" answer / patch, even if it's a self applied fix.
Thanks in Advance
Ted Thompson

and they replied:

The broken coupler issue after a saved session is one of the things that is supposed to be addressed within TS12 Service Pack 1 when it is release by N3V. Unfortunately we don’t even know a timeframe on that but that’s part of it , we do know that.

Kevin
JointedRail Customer Support

So I have since tried again with NO saves and doing it as prescribed (hook to the front)

No joy...

 

[boyerm25]

I believe the route and rule were made in TS10 and the rule is broken in TS12. Just delete it.

 

[ZecMurphy]

Good Morning Frogpipe
We have been working on improvements to the coupler physics for the TS12 SP1 update, which will improve the handling of couplers in sessions such as these. As such, we would ask that you wait for TS12 SP1 to be released. We don't have an ETA on when this will be released, but it is very, very close to release.

Regards

 

[frogpipe]

I believe the route and rule were made in TS10 and the rule is broken in TS12. Just delete it.

No, I don't think that's an answer. For one thing it's built in and you can't delete it.

Can you (or rather anyone else since I don't see TS10 on your track) verify that this worked in TS10?

Good Morning Frogpipe
We have been working on improvements to the coupler physics for the TS12 SP1 update, which will improve the handling of couplers in sessions such as these. As such, we would ask that you wait for TS12 SP1 to be released. We don't have an ETA on when this will be released, but it is very, very close to release.

Regards

So it's not just a matter of save games? It's being overhauled and/or tweaked in general? (I ask because JR mentioned save games, but you/N3V would obviously be the greater authority on what's being done)

 

[norfolksouthern37]

Can you (or rather anyone else since I don't see TS10 on your track) verify that this worked in TS10?

It worked in TS10 because the Mojave route and the sessions were made there. We never had any trouble in testing. the only way to be sure you will complete it in TS12 is to remove it from the session, which is what i think was meant by the second post.

So it's not just a matter of save games? It's being overhauled and/or tweaked in general? (I ask because JR mentioned save games, but you/N3V would obviously be the greater authority on what's being done)

save games were only mentioned because it was almost guaranteed that the couplers would break upon loading a saved game - it is related in the sense that it has a similar cause but was not just about the Walong Stall session. the fix will arrive with SP1.


I do share your frustrations with the session. I was doing some other unrelated testing on it having to do with the SP1 patch, and I found the couplers would break in absurd locations and times. I dropped the 4 cars at Caliente and when i moved the 4 locos away from the cars the coupler broke on the lead loco... facepalm for sure.

 

[PC_Ace]

Gidday frogpipe,
To answer your original question, "Has anyone finished the Walong Stall?" then the answer is yes!
I have been able to complete this session on a number of occasions (I enjoy this particular session for its challenge of bringing the train back without coupler breakage and starting a heavy consist on a 2.2% grade in the wet)
And yes, I've had coupler breakage quite a few times too, especially after saves, which I eventually learned not to do. (However, Pause seems to work OK if there are no other AI trains being triggered at the time...)
I've now completed ALL the Mojave Sub sessions in cab mode and without modification to the rules, etc. and consider it to be quite an achievement, especially since the DPU Push session never seems to provide the promised messages as you approach Tehachapi.
I kept at it until I guessed correctly what was required and performed manoeuvres in apparently the "right order"!
With the DPU Push session, the secret of success appears to be in taking over (as driver) the right locomotives at the right time (i.e. pusher, vs lead loco) and in the Walong Stall, to draw out the couplings on the entire train before s-l-o-w-l-y applying more power.
Notwithstanding that, you need to get to at least notch 3 on the throttle before releasing the train brake and then ease it out from there!
I'm not really a masochist, but I do enjoy all of the Mojave Sub sessions in TS12 more than any others!
Cheers,
Peter

 

[frogpipe]

Well here's something interesting...

[redacted]

 

[boyerm25]

For one thing it's built in and you can't delete it.

Then edit the session and remove it is what I meant.

 

[frogpipe]

I see now you meant the rule, for some reason when I read that my brain saw you saying "delete the session"... Senior moment.

 

[frogpipe]

[Redacted]

 

[frogpipe]

Well I can now answer my original question with "I have"

The secret? Patience. Here's what I did.

I arrived on the scene and coupled to "SP Stall".
I went to view 2 and clicked on the lead locomotive, leaving the AI drivers where they were.
I switched to view 1.

Now I see before me the controls showing the Independent Brake is off, the Automatic Brake is set, the reverser is set to Reverse.
I move the reverser to forward.
Release the Automatic Brake and set the throttle to notch 1

Now you wait.

If you know what slack is, skip this paragraph, but if you don't read on: Couplers have a certain amount of forward and backward motion in them. It isn't much for any one coupler, but over the length of a long train (and this is one LOOOOOONG train) it adds up. So much so that a long train will actaully get several feet longer when all the slack is "drawn out" or stretched and several feet shorter when the slack is compressed.

This train is in a compressed state when you couple to it. So here's how I handled that.

Remember we are in notch 1, brakes releasing, and waiting. After a few moments, you start to move backwards very slowly, then there will be a yank and you'll move a bit faster.

At this point I set notch 2 and the process repeats.

Once it seems to have stopped yanking back, I set notch 3 and the train slows to a stop followed by a slow acceleration forward.

This is where the ammeter comes in. You'll note that it is now in the red and should be falling as you gain speed. Again wait, when it's just about to the green band you'll see that it's reduction is slowing to a halt. Now add 1 more notch.

Again, the needle heads to the red, hovers, and starts to fall again. Wait until it seems to be stopped and add another notch.

I found that I could maintain the 25mph with notch 5 and an occasional drop to 4 or rise to 6 all the way up the hill. When I got to 26 mph I dropped one notch, when I got to 24mph I raised one notch.

So, there you have it. It is possible. My trouble was that I had been hitting notch 3 as soon as I *started* moving backwards rather then waiting until the slack was all drawn out, which meant that I was not only pulling the weight of the train, but also the dragging brakes at the rear + the added force of those cars hitting the end of the coupler slack.

In my defense, this is the first train I've operated at anywhere NEAR this length.

As to my "ammeter" technique, I reasoned that out after reading THIS. I figure it would apply to any Diesel loco and not just the SD40.

 

[PC_Ace]

Congratulations on your achievement!
Yes, patience is absolutely the key!
And as I discovered last night replaying the session, the "don't save the game" advice only applies to saves whilst the train is in motion. If you've brought it to a safe stop just before coupling to the stalled train, then you can resurrect the scene without immediately broken couplers.
BTW, I always used to apply sanding (v) to avoid wheel slip when I started this train off up the hill once again, but am beginning to suspect that this feature doesn't actually work/ or doesn't seem to have a material impact in this session, as you can start the train off without going backwards just as easily without.
And, if you couple up gently, applying the Independent brakes - and then quickly - the Train brakes, since you're now in charge of the entire train, it won't roll backwards at all.
Now that it is under your control, switch to the (now lead) locomotive cab facing up the hill, release the Independent brake after setting the Reverser to Forward and the throttle to 3.
Then wait patiently whilst the slack is taken up from the couplers over the entire train once you release the train brake (Q).
In most cases, it looks like you've stalled too, but you are creeping forward almost imperceptibly by now and when you judge that the brakes are fully off the entire length of the consist, add another notch to the throttle.
It's cool to go to the outside view for this sequence, so that you can watch the tail of your train start to move forward (apparently in the opposite direction!) to the locomotive.
Cheers!
PC

 

[frogpipe]

I didn't use any sand. I think the sand adds 10% to your traction, but it doesn't mean anything if you aren't in wheelslip.

 

[simulatortrain]

I've never finished it, but for a different reason... Every time I have run it I have noticed rolling stock or trackside things I wanted to replace or detail, so I went back and changed them before I forgot.