Grand Theft Auto and Trainz

cascaderailroad

New member
Grand Theft Auto V sold 2 million dollars in the first week of release, and they spent $250 million on development.

All the gore & violence !

What if Trainz had this graphics realism ?

Of if a video game like GTA V was a safe & sane simulator game (like Trainz or the Sims), allowing users to place GTA type senarios all about town, to their own desired custom designed locations, where a user could interact with his own custom built world creation (but that sounds like the "Sims" on steroids) lol :hehe:
 
Last edited:
Now if N3V had $250,000,000 to spend on Trainz, then I'm sure they could fix the bugs (and introduce more), and do a lot of things, but money isn't all of it. There are a lot of differences between GTA and Trainz with how the AI interacts with the objects around them as well as the complexity of some of the objects.

John
 
Sometimes I watch my son playing battlefield with his mates.
The graphics, sound, weapons and every aspect of these games are absolutely stunning .
 
If You really want to see what can be accomplished by a small company (12 people?) look at SCS Software's European Truck Simulator 2 (ETS). The graphics are superb. When it rains the windshield wipers actually clear the rain from the window. Check out their videos on You Tube.
 
UdghT.jpg
 
How much of that scene above is interactive? The background looks like a backdrop. It's a nice scene though which begs us to go looking around at more stuff.

I looked at the European Truck Simulator. The graphics are nice, but they use the same objects for the different terminals and a lot of sameness. I'm not saying this isn't a bad thing, but this is where Trainz is different. You can create and implement customized objects for each scene or area of a route, making the landscape more realistic. There are tradeoffs with this approach, which have been discussed many times before, as this is more work for the program to do. Instead of loading a single tree, building, and track into memory and using the same all over the place, the program has to stop and load each individual object each time it arrives in the scene because this information is not available in the cache. This is also why cities don't always load well because of the individual buildings.

Remember too a lot of these programs use zones and a fixed field of view so everything is interactive only up close. If you wander outside the immediate view, it's like being in the back lot of a movie set. The zones too are also the only interactive area at that moment and everything else around becomes a static action. This is unlike Trainz where the objects are still there in our much bigger world all the time.

I'm not dissing the other products or rip down the other programs to show that Trainz is better. It's just they are built much differently. If again N3V had that kind of budget, they could probably do a lot more with what we have now. Remember too, this isn't the same company we had 7 years ago. N3V is even smaller than Auran ever was and is even more limited with resources. There are probably a lot more investors to answer to and to control budgets unlike before. I say this from personal experience having worked in that environment.

John
 
How much of that scene above is interactive? The background looks like a backdrop. It's a nice scene though which begs us to go looking around at more stuff.

I looked at the European Truck Simulator. The graphics are nice, but they use the same objects for the different terminals and a lot of sameness. I'm not saying this isn't a bad thing, but this is where Trainz is different. You can create and implement customized objects for each scene or area of a route, making the landscape more realistic. There are tradeoffs with this approach, which have been discussed many times before, as this is more work for the program to do. Instead of loading a single tree, building, and track into memory and using the same all over the place, the program has to stop and load each individual object each time it arrives in the scene because this information is not available in the cache. This is also why cities don't always load well because of the individual buildings.

Remember too a lot of these programs use zones and a fixed field of view so everything is interactive only up close. If you wander outside the immediate view, it's like being in the back lot of a movie set. The zones too are also the only interactive area at that moment and everything else around becomes a static action. This is unlike Trainz where the objects are still there in our much bigger world all the time.

I'm not dissing the other products or rip down the other programs to show that Trainz is better. It's just they are built much differently. If again N3V had that kind of budget, they could probably do a lot more with what we have now. Remember too, this isn't the same company we had 7 years ago. N3V is even smaller than Auran ever was and is even more limited with resources. There are probably a lot more investors to answer to and to control budgets unlike before. I say this from personal experience having worked in that environment.

John

Hey J, The scene above is interactive with the vehicles and train cars (you can climb on them) but I was disappointed that you cant drive or hijack a train. The city scene behind the forground is that of the city itself which is not a background. Rockstar greatly improved the draw distance in this game. Its fun but I had beaten it within 3 days after release.
 
I must be alone in disliking the realistic look of GTA and other games. I much prefer the look of Trainz graphics as this is what a simulator should look like IMO. There again I dislike the animated films that they turn out these days I much prefer to see real films with actors it seems that we are being dumbed down all of the time.

Ken
 
Ken I agree! We're being dumbed down with a lot of things and the emotionless CGI actors are not the same as real people. This is happening in music to with the pseudo Classical style and other computer-generated music that any monkey can create by pressing a few buttons.



Hey J, The scene above is interactive with the vehicles and train cars (you can climb on them) but I was disappointed that you cant drive or hijack a train. The city scene behind the forground is that of the city itself which is not a background. Rockstar greatly improved the draw distance in this game. Its fun but I had beaten it within 3 days after release.

Thanks for the information. I think I know how this works. The active part of the game is controlled within a zone. Since the scenery is static, they have generated a bitmap image to represent the distance. Using LOD techniques, they are able to swap out the fixed distant shot with the active scenery once the player has moved to the new zone. There is nothing wrong with this, and perhaps this could be implemented in Trainz as that would definitely speed things up. It may already be done, but not as efficiently.

John
 
My 2 cents worth, lets think about something for a minute. Grand Theft Auto (GTA) has a budget that suits the game as the designers know that they are going to get their money's worth and then some soon after its released because they have targeted the game to a wider audience that is into that sort of thing. (Smashing up cars, killing peds, following a story line, etc.) By an audience is constantly buying this sort of game, the developers will invest in this sort of game as it makes a lot of money. (Modern games also have several hundred or even thousands of people working on a title - from coding to artwork.)

Now, Trainz is a niche product - as in it appeals to a much more narrower audience than shoot 'em ups lets say, if you did some serious market research, you'd find the sales of Trainz to be quite low in comparison with GTA (in fact a flop in the ocean, probably less than 1/100th - someone needs to verify that first), which means the budget is going to be far less than that of GTA. As a result, you have fewer people, which in turn, means longer timeframes or even eeking out as much life from the product as possible.

However, involving a community is probably one great unique thing about Trainz, which has one big problem that has yet to be addressed when creating assets. This is also a problem that haunts a lot of open source software and a lot of addons.

Standardisation.

Why? Play GTA for an hour and you hardly notice the difference between each assets, even if one person was allocated a car to model throughout the year each and one person produces the coding, therefore everything fits in. Play Trainz and you will soon notice who created what, because the "standardisation" isn't either there in as much detail or creators choose to ignore it (myself included.). This can be because of several factors. Skills, timeframe, etc. The answer is to have a set of common goals which are rigorously enforced (Railworks anyone?) and content creator guides that are far more indepth than we have of current, but this increases development time and you need someone to enforce it if the resources are there.

That is probably why you will find a consistent look across Raiworks, but not Trainz. (However, Trainz does have 13 years of development, whereas Railworks only has 6 - if that.) Apart from that, comparing to the other sim unfairly (Sorry! :) ), there seems to be much better "shaders" (bits of graphics code, if you like) available at my disposal and more standard maps at my disposal than in Trainz, for example the environment mapping which is the gloss like effect you see is the same for all stock. The lighting is the same for all stock. Etc, etc. Then you run into a challenge in how to keep all the assets "consistent" between creators.

It has been done, look at some add-ons produced, like Skipton to Carlisle. That has a more consistent feel than Trainz itself but it was a community lead project.
 
nothing matches the quality of gta v.what u can compare is the graphics betwwen gta v and trainz other then that comparing these two game isnt good as both games are totally different things
i agree that scs euro truck simlator two has amazing graphics and its rain is realisitic whereas trainz still have poor rain system
 
Back
Top