Wow, how interesting to hear from someone who was once buried and then rose!
Sorry, had to post this.
Regards,
Retro.
that ok retro. At the age of 67 the one thing you fear is the day that you are unable to rise.:hehe:
Bill
Good old days complaint
- Thread starter H222
- Start date
that ok retro. At the age of 67 the one thing you fear is the day that you are unable to rise.:hehe:
Bill
I'm not expert on west coast rail, but from my meager studies, there's some, but not on the scale of the East Coast. I'll have to bow to someone else on that. I can tell you that in the State of Tennessee where I live, unless you live in one of the major population centers, you could go months without ever seeing a train. You may cross some tracks now and then, but you could be sitting and waiting quite a while to catch a glimpse of a train and none of them will be passenger oriented unless it's an excursion of some sort.
I live in a town southeast of Nashville that has lots of single line freight traffic, but they never stop in town except to pick up and drop cars at the Nissan Plant. There is a short little commuter rail that recently started up running east out of Nashville, but I believe it only runs into town in the mornings and out in the afternoon. Nothing in-between. The majority of land space in this country is just too sparsely populated to justify the expense of regular passenger traffic.
Mike
Bill,
Please see the link below from the USA Census of 2000
http://www.census.gov/geo/www/mapGallery/2kpopden.html
Click where it says JPEG 169KB to enlarge.
You will see that at a point just about in the middle of the US, the population density drops off.
The West coast shows LA and SF as having some population density, but that's about it.
I have personally driven across the USA in 2002. Once we left California, the open space is real until we got to Dallas, TX.
Regards.
Ron
Please see the link below from the USA Census of 2000
http://www.census.gov/geo/www/mapGallery/2kpopden.html
Click where it says JPEG 169KB to enlarge.
You will see that at a point just about in the middle of the US, the population density drops off.
The West coast shows LA and SF as having some population density, but that's about it.
I have personally driven across the USA in 2002. Once we left California, the open space is real until we got to Dallas, TX.
Regards.
Ron
shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
It may not be, but discussing/continuing from a locked thread can be shaky grounds.
Also, your thread title does not help you any.
The original thread was locked for a reason - there's a chance that this one may go the same way.
Shane
In a recent trip (May of this year) to the USA I was struck by the opposite impression. I travelled on a number of long distance trains - the Downeaster between Boston and Portland ME, the Acela Express from Boston to Washington and Washington to Philadelphia, the California Zephyr from Chicago to Emeryville (San Francisco), as well as regional, local commuter and many metro trains. In most cases the trains were full and not just during rush hour.
I learned that patronage is up significantly on virtually all of Amtrak's trains. Amtrak was expanding its network with new track from Portland north to Brunswick and are considering a new service from Chicago to LA via Los Vegas.
A common complaint I heard from my fellow passengers on the long distance trains was the increasing costs and difficulties of air travel - the latter I experienced myself on several internal flights within the US. One airline in particular that I travelled on did not have a single flight that was not "delayed", not "cancelled" or not "undergoing maintenance". That seems to be the mantra of budget airlines everywhere.
Peter Ware
The "Interstates"
Jim mentions the building of the Interstate Highway System in the U.S. contributing to people not riding trains. It also contributed to people not seeing trains. Many of the older U.S. "routes" (like the famous "Route 66") paralleled railroad tracks (in the case of Route 66, the old Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe from Chicago to Los Angeles). By and large, the Interstates were built miles away. In some cases this wiped out whole towns whose only purpose was to feed, house, and gas up travelers.
One good thing came out of this: Kentucky Fried Chicken. Colonel Sanders was one of the restaurant operators wiped out when his town got bypassed by a new Interstate. To survive, he hit the road selling franchises and his chicken recipe. The rest is history.
Jim mentions the building of the Interstate Highway System in the U.S. contributing to people not riding trains. It also contributed to people not seeing trains. Many of the older U.S. "routes" (like the famous "Route 66") paralleled railroad tracks (in the case of Route 66, the old Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe from Chicago to Los Angeles). By and large, the Interstates were built miles away. In some cases this wiped out whole towns whose only purpose was to feed, house, and gas up travelers.
One good thing came out of this: Kentucky Fried Chicken. Colonel Sanders was one of the restaurant operators wiped out when his town got bypassed by a new Interstate. To survive, he hit the road selling franchises and his chicken recipe. The rest is history.
I can only guess that Dirty Chicken in the US is a whole lot better than Dirty Chicken on the other side of the pond? Hehe.
The good old days' oh yeah
Bye the way, a classically good topic! Diptheria, Whooping cough, all sorts of illnesses and conjucture that our doctors and practioners were trying to think the names up for, never mind cure them. The difference is what every one else does not mention above is the quality of life.
That is what is held most precious in the minds of people who lived through the 50's and 60's. The war had been won, Britain was on the up, people were characters, they had personalities, love or hate them, you could pick and choose!
Sadly today that quality of life has gone! the reason is political correctness, you can't breathe, fart or say anything out of place in case your upsetting Jo next door! The good old days are gone, never to be seen again, thanks to Messrs Blair, Thatcher and especially Bill Gates with all his happy, shiny people in his adverts!
Best Wishes Zapata935
Bye the way, a classically good topic! Diptheria, Whooping cough, all sorts of illnesses and conjucture that our doctors and practioners were trying to think the names up for, never mind cure them. The difference is what every one else does not mention above is the quality of life.
That is what is held most precious in the minds of people who lived through the 50's and 60's. The war had been won, Britain was on the up, people were characters, they had personalities, love or hate them, you could pick and choose!
Sadly today that quality of life has gone! the reason is political correctness, you can't breathe, fart or say anything out of place in case your upsetting Jo next door! The good old days are gone, never to be seen again, thanks to Messrs Blair, Thatcher and especially Bill Gates with all his happy, shiny people in his adverts!
Best Wishes Zapata935
+1
Make one move over the line and there are some PC correct people just waiting and sometimes hoping to pin you with a label, regardless of the accumulation of positive things you've contributed.
Retro00064
New member
This thread is going off topic again, methinks. 
Regards.
Regards.
What a depressing view.
For me the "good old days" will always be the "here and now". This will be as true in 10 years time as it is today.
I do not want to go back to the 50s and 60s - they were the "good old days" for corrupt police and politicians, the Berlin Wall, the cold war, the "hot" wars in Korea and Vietnam (x2), the Cuban missile crisis, and no Trainz (back on topic). Who remembers the Hungarian Uprising of 1956 and the "Prague Spring" of 1968 and the brutal Soviet invasions and repressions that followed? While not wanting to belittle the current troubles and sacrifices in Iraq and Afghanistan, these seem minor in comparison to the impact and fears generated by those earlier conflicts.
I do not want to go back to the 70s and 80s with their economic upheavals, company "downsizing" and moving "offshore" to where cheaper labour was found; the "killing fields" of Cambodia where an estimated one-quarter of the population were murdered; the CIA led invasions (notably Chile in 1973 plus others) to destroy democratically elected governments.
The list goes on. Who really wants to go back to those "good old days"?
Peter Ware
Go back to the 50's and 60's? Sign me up !! ; Elvis, The Beatles, Chuck Berry, Nat King Cole, Anita Bryant, Fender amps with point to point wiring vs Fender made in China, Steam still served, kids went outside after school, Christians and prayer not under attack by the ACLU.. Role models were John Wayne and Donna Reed vs Snoop Dawg and Amy Winehouse.
Our diversified members are never going to completely see eye to eye on this, but we don't need to be rescued either...
AJ, I give you credit for not feeling the need for a quick hook.
OK off topic police, your turn.
Our diversified members are never going to completely see eye to eye on this, but we don't need to be rescued either...
AJ, I give you credit for not feeling the need for a quick hook.
OK off topic police, your turn.
Last edited:
Now this is getting good, a lot of very interesting points and facts. I never knew that one about KFC, and it never crossed my mind that some people may live a hundred miles from the nearest rail line but obvious now you mention it.
I don't see why the thread would be locked as so many of you seem to think, it's all about the old days and a good lesson in other peoples version of history. :wave:
I don't see why the thread would be locked as so many of you seem to think, it's all about the old days and a good lesson in other peoples version of history. :wave:
This is still true today, Bob.
I have been severe storm and tornado chasing across the middle parts of the US for the past 4 years. There are whole sections where the towns have all but disappeared because of the interstate highway system. The once beautiful downtowns are pretty empty, but the strip malls up near I-70 with Braums, Sonic, and WalMart are booming.
During the late 1950s and 1960s this happened up in the Merrimack Valley where I live. Route 110, which ran from Worcester to Salisbury Beach, via Lowell, Lawrence, Haverhill, and other smaller towns, hosted all kinds of restaurants, ice cream stands, gift shops, and other businesses. This back road was the main street in many of the smaller towns such as Merrimac, parts of Methuen, and even downtown Haverhill. These businesses did very well during the summer months feeding and catering to the the summer beach traffic, and survived the winter months catering to the locals.
When I-495 opened in the early 1960s in its entirety at the time, from Foxboro to Salisbury, businesses closed. These stores and restaurants shutdown, and the town centers dried up.
In Haverhill, for example where I live, Merrimack and Washington streets are the downtown. Route 110 is essentially Washington Street up to Post Office Square. At one time this was a big shoe manufacturing center up until the 1970s. Today many of the stores are now empty, both in part due to business moving to sales-tax free New Hampshire, which is only 4 miles away, loss of blue-collar work, and the I-495 bypassing the downtown. The city was surviving the decline, but I-495 took away any visitors that would have stopped on their way to the beaches.
What's interesting is the area of the city that does pretty well is nearest the train station. There are now numerous smaller shops and restaurants along that corner of Washington, and Railroad Ave. Beyond that point, the stores peeter out to a few shops here and there (it's now mostly banks and a few bar rooms), and then nothing closest to the real Main Street - Route 125.
John
Which reminds me John , have you been out to Hodgie's Ice Cream
on Hwy 110 in Amesbury yet this summer? I'm pretty sure you know this, but Hodgie's has THE BEST icecream in the WORLD !! They make their own ice cream and give you more in a single scoop than most places give you with a triple scoop. One half "kiddie cone" was enough for me but I found out the hard way when we fist moved there.
My first Trainz project was the textile mill yard in Amesbury MA and the Amesbury Chamber of Commerce provided me with references to find 60 year old train maps of the area to assist with my project, which at that time was being designed as tool to help teach local history for Amesbury Public Schools.
What I found interesting too was that their was a public trolley system that went along HWY 110 in the Merrimack Valley area and even went over the Chain Bridge (USA's first ever suspension bridge), over the Merrimack River from Aimsbury to West Newbury (HWY 113). Those were the good old days.
Here in Colorado, the BNSF line runs close to I -25 in North Central Colorado, crosses over into an interesting wye before the Wyoming border. The UP line that runs along I -85 in eastern Colorado runs a close parallel to the BNSF line before reaching Cheyenne.
I 25 was was constructed during the good old days when Ike was president. I know local business were hurt along Hwy 287 after interstate traffic was diverted to I-25. Recently, a friend of mine owned a restaurant in Berthoud, Colorado that had a big percentage of their business cut off when Hwy 287 was diverted away, so through traffic would no longer go through Berthoud. He couldn't afford to stay open after that. Before his restaurant closed, we used to sit on the patio and watch the BNSF trains go past about a half block away, through town and past the grain silos. Sad it's no longer there.
Last edited:
Ahhhh...but what you don't know or perhaps forgot, is that Amtrak is a LOSING business that has to be propped up by Uncle Sammie to the tune of billions of dollars. Check this article:
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/10...mtrak-costs-38-per-passenger-how-much-do-hig/
Amtrak LOSES $32 per passenger. And that was back in 2009. It's a lot wprse today. What is really scary and amazing is that the POTUS wants to put high speed rail on US tracks. US FREIGHT tracks. There are a LOT of accidents already with low speed passenger and freight trains in the US. And the trackage is in need of major upgrade to make it suitable for high speed travel. That is spendign money we DON'T HAVE. Passenger trains have enjoyed a resurgence because of the idiotic TSA and their stupid seraching procedures for airline flights. I hate to say it, but terrorists haven't gotten around to trains yet. But I suspect they eventually will because they are a very easy target. Once there is a large train crash with fatalities that can be directly attributed to terrorism, you can say goodbye to train ridership.
In England and Australia you may not have the options of being able to drive or take a plane to get where you are going. I can tell you right now there is no way I would take a plane to go ANYWHERE. Trains or cars would be my two options.
Now abput railroad spotting....I live in Silver City, New Mexico. New Mexico as in Burlington/Northern Santa Fe and Union Pacific. I drove from Silver City to Tucson Arizona last Friday. Just for the fun of it, we did some train spotting . In all we counted SEVEN Union Pacific and BNSF freights that we passed by. All were moving and not parked. Most of them were pusher-puller consists. I wish I was better at identifying the newer locomotives, but I am kinda stuck in the days of F3/F7 and FM Trainmasters:hehe: . I know what I saw was VERY modern. What I didn't see at all were boxcars. All we saw were long strings of large hopper cars and auto and container cars. I used to live in a suburb of Chicago (Wilmette) until 2004, and I could go and see local RTA and Amtrak trains at the Glenview station, or if I wanted to see freights I could go downtown or to the suburb of Bensenville and see some really cool SOO Line locos. I actually saw one of their F3s that they had re-habbed to like new condition before they retired it in 1977.
Well, maybe this will help.
ACK!!!!! Just when my sight was returning you inflict this on us again. Please Jim....NO MORE!!!!
You make a very good point and I concede to your local knowledge. Reading the article revealed that the $32 figure is an average with the actual figures ranging from a PROFIT of $41 per passenger (on the Acela Express) to a LOSS of $462 per passenger (on the Sunset Limited). The fact that the "high speed" service between Boston and Washington is actually making a profit, while the equivalent Northeast Regional service is making a loss of $5 per passenger, is a good sign for the future of high speed rail in the US. While I was there I also noted that the existing track from Chicago to St Louis (I believe) was being upgraded for a high speed service.
The article also stated that the problem with the profit/loss method of assessing the worth of rail services is that you cannot just take the services in isolation. Removing the loss making services is very likely to badly affect the profitable services as they are all part of an interdependent network.
I know of no commuter, regional or long distance passenger (ignoring the specialist tourist services) anywhere in the world that makes a profit on its rail operations alone. All are subsidised by governments or other commercial operations. Japan's much praised Bullet Trains, for example, have never made a cent on their rail operations but the railway company is making profits from land deals and activities associated with the operations of the railways such as shopping malls next to stations, etc.
Yes, I did have a chuckle over the fact that high speed rail in Europe, Japan and China operates on its own dedicated tracks while the Acela Express shared its paths with freight, regional and commuter services. The two trips that I took ran without any delays which is probably a tribute to the traffic controllers on the NE corridor.
I can't speak for England (perhaps my next overseas trip) but here in Australia air travel is becoming more expensive and regional air services are slowly disappearing. Regional train services are either just "hanging on" or slowly dying in the eastern states but have disappeared completely just about everywhere else - so the choice is between the car or your feet.
I have been hearing a great deal about the safety record of your domestic US airlines - the one I flew on from Philadelphia to Scranton and then to Chicago was a frequent guest star on the TV show "Air Crash Investigation". It did not do my confidence any favours when they announced that my flight from Philadelphia to Scranton was delayed indefinitely because the aircraft was "in the maintenance hanger".
Here in Australia a major budget airline was recently grounded (and is still out of service) because its pilots flew too low on two separate landing approaches plus it was unable to find all its maintenance paper work.
Peter ware