Getting junction signals to work correctly

[F2Andy]

I have a double track mainline; train approaches a station (left track; UK), straight through is platform 1, platform 2 is the mainline the other way. There is a crossover, then points leading to platforms 3 and 4. I want the junction signal to differtiate between platforms 1 and 3, but the default behavior is to only indicate the branch if the track is set for the most extreme track, platform 4.

What is the easiest way to get the signal to function properly?

 

[Retro00064]

It is somewhat hard to understand what setup you are working with,but have you tried Bloodnok's signals? They use "targets" placed on the different routes to know what indication to show, and grow feathers or a theater display to indicate the routes.

Regards.

 

[F2Andy]

Bloodnok's signals sound like just the thing. I wil give them a go.

 

[pfx]

If you don't get that to work, a rough diagram would be helpful and we can take it from there.

 

[rjhowie]

I downloaded the Bloodnok pack and footered about wuth them on my laptop with some dummy lines and seems fine. So i then decided to download them to the pc where my NIR build is. I have a range of the "boards" and signals but none of the left or right junction signal posts have appeared as they did on my laptop. Have trawled throught them slowly. Maybe i should look at the laptop and try and find out the names than save them and transfer them to my pc. Odd. I need to have them at junctions obviously!

 

[pfx]

@rjhowie,

The best way I find to get them to work is if you place a loco prior to your signal. Add your feather markers after the points (it's important you also add the next signal too). Change the points direction and you should then see the feather appear. This is also a good way to check your signalling is correct too.

You can also name signals by using the format XXX XXX as the object name (a space between the two sets of letters/numbers).

 

[rjhowie]

put this in the wrong thread so will answer it the one i raise further down as I have a problem.

 

[F2Andy]

rjhowie, I did the same thing as you; worked fine on the test track, but not on the actual layout. However, after some fiddling around, I did get it to work, basically following pfx's advice.

 

[Enkidoh]

Another thing abut Bloodnok's excellent signals is there are two distinct types: 'A' and 'AT', of which only 'A' ('absolute') type signals should be used to control junctions. This is because the 'AT' type are automatic signals, i.e. permissive ones.

Trains can actually pass permissive signals which are red usually in certain situations provided they prepare to stop before the next signal (in the prototype they are not controlled remotely by a signal box but simply operate according to track circuits, hence the 'automatic' moniker.)

As a result, Bloodnok's 'AT' type signals will never show feathers or a theatre indicator no matter how much fiddling with them you do, as they are not designed for it (remembering a note in Auran's old official signalling guide they stated permissive/automatic signals should never be used to control junctions/points). It actually took me ages to realize why this was so on my own routes, as it's easily done.

 

[nexusdj]

Another thing abut Bloodnok's excellent signals is there are two distinct types: 'A' and 'AT', of which only 'A' ('absolute') type signals should be used to control junctions. This is because the 'AT' type are automatic signals, i.e. permissive ones.

Trains can actually pass permissive signals which are red usually in certain situations provided they prepare to stop before the next signal (in the prototype they are not controlled remotely by a signal box but simply operate according to track circuits, hence the 'automatic' moniker.)

As a result, Bloodnok's 'AT' type signals will never show feathers or a theatre indicator no matter how much fiddling with them you do, as they are not designed for it (remembering a note in Auran's old official signalling guide they stated permissive/automatic signals should never be used to control junctions/points). It actually took me ages to realize why this was so on my own routes, as it's easily done.

I'm sorry but your trying to associate bloodnoks signalling with US railroad practices which is completely wrong .

The A part of the signal description refers to the amount of aspects that the signal is capable of showing 2A = 2 aspect 3A = 3 aspect 4A= 4 aspect

The T section of the description refers to the signal being used in a "Terminating" situation i.e the signal is used before a terminating road or line , such as the last signal before enter a terminus station with the next signal encountered being a buffer stop (which should be lit with a red light facing an approaching train)

These terminating signals do not show a green light to a driver and act as a warning to a driver that he should proceed under caution.

They are set up however to use the scripting for the feathers and theatre indicators and DO work correctly when the scripted boards are placed in front of them.

There are no UK signals capable of permissive working in Trainz (at this time) . Each signal works as a stop signal and therefore will not allow the AI to pass it to enter a occupied section in front of it .

The only colour light that doesn't act as a stop signal is the 2 aspect distant (2AD) which is used as a way of illustrating to a driver as to either which aspect the next stop signal is showing (on track circuit block lines) or whether the route is clear through the next block section (On absolute block lines) or an intermediate block Home signal (on absolute block lines) .

As a read up on UK signalling practices I recommend downloading the current UK Rail group standards Rule books

http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Rule_Boo...CTID=0x01200060B274261602B94B84F5B3E1E95DE5C8

Sections S , T and TS

 

[Kennilworth]

Hi

With bloodnoks signals it can sometimes be difficult to get the feathers to show. I have found that the signal needs to be able to see the next signal, or buffer stop, behind the target before the feather will appear. If the feather won't show make sure that there is a path set behind the signal which allows it to see the next signal or buffer stop.

Regards

Brian

 

[Enkidoh]

I'm sorry but your trying to associate bloodnoks signalling with US railroad practices which is completely wrong .

The A part of the signal description refers to the amount of aspects that the signal is capable of showing 2A = 2 aspect 3A = 3 aspect 4A= 4 aspect

The T section of the description refers to the signal being used in a "Terminating" situation i.e the signal is used before a terminating road or line , such as the last signal before enter a terminus station with the next signal encountered being a buffer stop (which should be lit with a red light facing an approaching train)

These terminating signals do not show a green light to a driver and act as a warning to a driver that he should proceed under caution.

They are set up however to use the scripting for the feathers and theatre indicators and DO work correctly when the scripted boards are placed in front of them.

There are no UK signals capable of permissive working in Trainz (at this time) . Each signal works as a stop signal and therefore will not allow the AI to pass it to enter a occupied section in front of it .

The only colour light that doesn't act as a stop signal is the 2 aspect distant (2AD) which is used as a way of illustrating to a driver as to either which aspect the next stop signal is showing (on track circuit block lines) or whether the route is clear through the next block section (On absolute block lines) or an intermediate block Home signal (on absolute block lines) .

As a read up on UK signalling practices I recommend downloading the current UK Rail group standards Rule books

http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Rule_Book/Forms/Live_Documents.aspx?RootFolder=/Rule_Book/Rule Book Modules&FolderCTID=0x01200060B274261602B94B84F5B3E1E95DE5C8

Sections S , T and TS

Ah, you're right, I forgot UK practice follows absolute working (and hence Bloodnok's signals do accordingly) - this was a stupid mistake on my part (and I should have known it, as I have an old Ian Allan-published handbook on British signalling from the early 70's which even states that), and as a result, my confusion over the signal designations.

I did try using the AT signals to control junctions on my Trainz routes, but I don't know what I was always doing wrong as I could never get the AT signals to display feathers or theatre indicators even when the boards are correctly placed. Only the A type ones would work. Which only (incorrectly) added extra weight to my mistaken assumptions they were 'automatic' signals, which as you stated, is wrong.

Ah well. Thanks for the information clarifying that Nexus.

 

[rjhowie]

Well hopping back here again (!) Just spent an utterly fruittless evening taking time to get on with my build and still no joy with signalling. Thought wouldf start at (Antrim) Junction. Stuck an engne down then the black fetahe things and also added a couple of further signals along both different directions at the branch. They could also tell me there were two fruther blocks but not matter what I do no damn signals for the actiual points at the junction. Neither by the way do they appear in the Surveyor Widow when you scroll through the signals.A whole lot of them but no sign of the important ones for the points. I cannot even fall back on the built-in Trauinz ones as they refuse to make an appeance on the layout although two or three were left after the mass disappeance. So that is 2 nights in a row and my junctions wil remain signal-less by the looks of it.

 

[Retro00064]

Have you tried clicking the "Forget all previously seen targets" button a couple times, then clicking on the "Update Now" button a few times, then flipping the junction lever? Both buttons are in the Properties dialog for each signal. Also, watch for the text "Route indication by <insert "Feathers" or "Theatre" here" in the Properties dialog for each signal when you click those buttons.

Perhaps if you post a screenshot of your junction setup here, then we can help you better.

There are no seperate junction signals with feathers in Bloodnok's pack that you will find in the Surveyor Trackside menu; the regular-looking signals are scripted to add feathers/a theater to themselv es based on the targets that they see (remember those two buttons that I mentioned above that are in each signal's Properties dialog.

Regards.