For those with a UPS

[johnwhelan]

Humour me and unplug it from the wall when your machine is running then plug it back in after 30 seconds and see if the machine is still running.

The reason for this is I brought a new APC BR1000G and when the power failed it didn't keep the machine running. My older APC Back UPS ES 750 works perfectly and everything keeps running. My older PC works fine with the new UPS by the way.

I quote APC technical support "Please be advised that output of a Back-UPS when on Battery power is a Stepped approximated to a Sine wave and this type of wave form would not be suitable for computer using a Antec power supply."

Both my computers use Antec power supplies and this is something I hadn't come across before.

Thanks John

 

[JCitron]

John,

It looks like you might have discovered something the hard way. From New Egg:

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• koolpete
• 6/4/2011 8:40:43 PM
• Tech Level:
  
  4/5
• Ownership:
  
  3/5

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[TD]

Rating: 1/5Does NOT work with UPS

Pros: Its quiet
Cons: It does not work with APC UPS BX1000. Found this out the hard way. After a week on the UPS the computer suddenly switched off. I immediately thought it was something wrong with the APC UPS. So, I returned it to my local OfficeMax and got another APC UPS. This time I conducted a few tests. 75% of the time the computer would shut down when either disconnecting the UPS from power or connecting the UPS back to power.

Then I start researching and apparently this is a really big problem. It has to do with the approximated sine wave that the cheaper APC UPS put out is not compatible with Active PFC found on newer Power Supply Units.

So, if you have no intention of ever plugging your computer into a UPS then get this, it's quiet. Otherwise, if you think you might want to use a UPS one day then stay away from the Antec EarthWatt series.

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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371007


Here's another link with more techie information regarding the cheap capacitors used by Antec for their cheap power supplies, so the problem may not just be APC but perhaps a combination of the two.
http://www.pjrc.com/about/rambling/antec.html


The more expensive APS UPS units may work, but the less expensive ones apparently do not. I would suggest trying a different brand UPS or PS if you have to. I would rather have the computer componenst protected against power line issues than plug everything directly into the main.



John

 

[johnwhelan]

Antec used to be a very respected name in power supplies.

Thanks for spotting that.

Cheerio John

 

[wreeder]

I have three machines with Antec power supplies plugged into two different UPS units. One is an APC Back UPS XS 1300 and the other is a Cyberpower PFC Sinewave Series CP850PFCLCD which I got for the pure sine wave feature. I've never had a problem with either one during power failures or brownouts. I got a good deal on the Cyberpower unit on Amazon. I'm quite pleased with it.

William

 

[johnwhelan]

I have three machines with Antec power supplies plugged into two different UPS units. One is an APC Back UPS XS 1300 and the other is a Cyberpower PFC Sinewave Series CP850PFCLCD which I got for the pure sine wave feature. I've never had a problem with either one during power failures or brownouts. I got a good deal on the Cyberpower unit on Amazon. I'm quite pleased with it.

William

I also switched to a Cyberpower CP1350AVRLCD UPS and that one seems fine even though it isn't pure sine wave output. At the moment it seems to be quite specific to the 500 watt Earthworks and the newer APC UPS models such as the APC BR1000G. As stated it works fine with my older APC Back UPS ES 750.

However it was very unexpected I've been using APC for years, I recall we dropped in a couple of hundred APC UPSes once to resolve what we suspected was a power quality issue, we saw something like a 90% decrease in software problems just dropping in the UPS. One user was annoyed by the constant beeping, their local power quality was very bad.

Cheerio John

 

[clam1952]

I can find similar horror stories for any PSU you care to mention. Don't forget the substandard components from Asia being supplied as high spec until a couple of years ago, quite a few reputable companies got caught by that problem.

I suspect this is going to increasingly be a problem with ramped or stepped wave rather than a sine wave from a UPS when modern PSU's use power factor correction.
EU regulations dictate that all Power supplies must have active or passive PFC, Power Factor Correction for anyone who hasn't heard of it before. It's also an environmental requirement, so expect it's probably required elsewhere as well.

So maybe blame the UPS manufacturers for not keeping up with technological advances and selling equipment no longer suitable without a warning?

Knowing the EU they will probably try to ban all none PFC stuff at some point.

 

[johnwhelan]

The article on the Antecs above is dated 2007 which is a few years old. I checked the voltages on mine and they are spot on, or within .05% which is close enough for me and well within spec so it does appear to be connected to the high efficiency power supplies and certain UPSes.

Fun stuff and more than I ever wanted to know.

Cheerio John

 

[clam1952]

The article on the Antecs above is dated 2007 which is a few years old. I checked the voltages on mine and they are spot on, or within .05% which is close enough for me and well within spec so it does appear to be connected to the high efficiency power supplies and certain UPSes.

Fun stuff and more than I ever wanted to know.

Cheerio John

Great minds? I've just checked both of mine, never hurts to make sure and they are both well within spec, both are now over 18 months old and seem fine.

 

[JCitron]

The information is a bit more than a few years old, but still pertinent today. I too checked my power supply after reading the article as well.

I have a Thermaltake TR2-RS series unit and it works fine with my APC UPS.

The issue I think too is the manufacturers are building the power supplies and other components as cheaply as possible, and are using the lowest-cost components. The components may meet the specs, but for how long because they are very, very marginal to begin with. This power supply issue is nothing new as I've seen bad capacitors back when I used to fix switcher power supplies about 30 years ago. The problem I dealt with stemmed from the manufacturer using a solvent bath to clean the boards after soldering them. The solvent got into the caps and broke down the seal, causing them to leak. A more recent capacitor issue was caused by someone stealing a prototype from a developer and then putting the unit into production before the bugs were worked out. After the defective caps flooded the market, they affected many well known manufacturers including Asus, A-Open, and who knows how many other manufacturers.

Perhaps we should keep this issue in mind when we're troubleshooting system issues especially now that we push the systems harder and harder than ever before. It's not always the hard drive or video card that's causing poor performance, but instead one of the cheap power supplies that are barely at spec that are the issue.

John

 

[johnwhelan]

Perhaps we should keep this issue in mind when we're troubleshooting system issues especially now that we push the systems harder and harder than ever before. It's not always the hard drive or video card that's causing poor performance, but instead one of the cheap power supplies that are barely at spec that are the issue.

John

I'm not quite sure I agree with this statement, I still have three APC UPSes lying around the house, the newer Antec power supply works correctly with all three. The unit that was returned the APC BR1000G won't work with one specific Antec power supply but did work correctly with a PC with an older Antec power supply.

I have an email from APC saying that there is a known issue with that specific model and Antec power supplies. I think my issue is APC managed in the past to produce clean enough power to run Antecs on battery, this new model doesn't, the company didn't seem to have issued any guidance to would be purchasers nor to the stores that sell the units.

I suspect they are coming under pressure from Cyberpower especially their margins as they have been practically the only name in town until now and they have cut costs on the sine wave generator and are just hoping no one notices.

Cheerio John

 

[JCitron]

I'm not quite sure I agree with this statement, I still have three APC UPSes lying around the house, the newer Antec power supply works correctly with all three. The unit that was returned the APC BR1000G won't work with one specific Antec power supply but did work correctly with a PC with an older Antec power supply.

I have an email from APC saying that there is a known issue with that specific model and Antec power supplies. I think my issue is APC managed in the past to produce clean enough power to run Antecs on battery, this new model doesn't, the company didn't seem to have issued any guidance to would be purchasers nor to the stores that sell the units.

I suspect they are coming under pressure from Cyberpower especially their margins as they have been practically the only name in town until now and they have cut costs on the sine wave generator and are just hoping no one notices.

Cheerio John

John,

I agree and I wouldn't doubt if this is part of the problem. APC used to be one of the top-guns in the industry and they gained a reputation for that. With the younger, leaner folks coming along such as Cyberpower, they'll now have to get off their laurels and should make things better, but instead they've decided to cut corners on the consumer end. Sadly APC still thinks that most home users just user their PCs for general work instead of for running super-intensive graphics that are equal to some of the high-end CAD systems from a few years ago.

The China Syndrome, as I've heard this called is still an issue with components. Again going back quite a few years ago, and I've seen this more recently with some motherboards, there were some timing issues with some video circuits on some graphic cards. The problem was the board builder substituted lesser-quality capacitors that were the same part as were specified in the build. The tolerences were marked properly, but the parts surely weren't. This caused a ton of retrofits on my part back then. With the motherboards, the manufacturers fixed the problem and now the newer versions don't have any problems.

John