fare dodging in Scotland..

Good job too. Time was when a Peeler could take his hand of the back of your head and that wasn't assualt. Now that it is, this sort of behaviour sadly, is the norm.
 
Hi scratchy, pfx and everybody.
I think part of the problem with this sort of behaviour is that regular travellers on British Railways all too often witness "fare dodgers" get away with their theft without any sort of action by the train conductors or company that would deter them in the future or others from taking the same action.

Only a few days ago I was travelling into Bristol on a crowded morning commuter train from Somerset when two teenage girls dressed in the uniform of a very well known and expensive Bristol private school were asked by the conductor for tickets. Both replied that they had no tickets and when asked to pay stated that they had no money and therefore could not pay.

The conductor just told them to not get on the train in the future if they had no way of paying for the journey and then just went on to the next passengers requesting their their tickets. It is not the first time I have witnessed "fare dodgers" being let off in the same manner. The two girls got off the train at a station just prior to Bristol Temple Meads which has no ticket barriers or inspectors on the entrance/exit to the station and therefore avoiding the ticket inspection barriers at Temple Meads.

If the above does not encourage other travellers not to buy tickets, I do not know what would. As stated it is a scene all too often witnesed on the British rail system and it is time much firmer action was taken by the train companies in respect of non-payers

I wouldn't mind betting that the youngster in the YouTube video had got away with it in the past and therefore thought he could get away with it as many times as he wished, except this time there was someone who was prepared to stand up for the majority of travellers on the train.

Bill
 
Right place and right time. How often these heroes step up and no one is there to notice! You see the causes of the offender's behavior even right here! No respect for authority, nor rules, nor conventions of moral behavior. I'm not going to over simplify and blame it on age, and yes, I remember making many bad decisions when I was young.

I don't think there will ever be a solution to it, but in this case, I do believe that if a job requires man handling a potential threat, the employee should have the ability and tools to do so. I doubt the company would approve of tasering a miscreant, but if laws are going to be enacted at all, they need to be enforced in the end.
 
Hi Ed and everybody.
On a lighter note regarding ticket inspection. A couple of weeks ago I caught the 21.45 London Paddington to Exeter HST which calls at my local station in Somerset.

I had been out to an evening meal in London with a customer of my business and had eaten very well made even better with a few glasses of wine. I then managed to get a table seat in the Hst quiet carriage on leaving London and therefore decided that as I was not due to arrive at my Somerset station until midnight I would get myself a couple of hours sleep and went very comfortably into "bylows" with my coat beneath my head against the carriage window.

Anticipating the ticket inspection by the train crew, I had took out my ticket and placed on it the table in front of me so that the ticket could be inspected without disturbing me, I felt it could not be more obvious to anybody what I had done and the reason why.

NO SUCH LUCK. The ticket inspector when he arrived vigourously shook my shoulder, tapped me on the head with a board he had in his hand (gently I would emphasise) and roared in my ear TICKETS PLEASE.

Startled by being woken up in such a fashion and still half asleep, I shouted "IT'S THEIR, IT'S THEIR" which had everybody else in the carriage looking round to see what was going on. For the next 10 minutes I would have killed anybody who as much as spoke to me in the gentlest of manners.

It took a very large brandy obtained from the Buffy car to restore my usual very pleasant and passive manner and where I soon found myself chatting to other passengers at the bar which concluded the journey is a most pleasant and genial manner.

Bill
 
That's a better story, indeed. The local commuter trains here (Metra) have clips on the seats and other places to fasten your ticket if you don't want to hold it. On most of the suburban routes I would feel comfortable taking a nap, but that's as far as it goes. The urban lines require you to keep your radar up at all times.
And they have removed the bar cars from Metra, some time ago.:'(
 
It was good that the big man who is from the business world got clapped by everyone in the carriage when he came back.

Thinking about ticket issuers I remember an interesting exchange I had in the mid 1990's. I was leading a party of Boys' Brigade Boys to camp in the east of England and travelling to Peterboruugh from Glasgow. We had hit on a novel scheme at the time which worked out cheaper than group travel. One adult paying the fare could take 4 youngsters for a £1 each! So I duly got the paperwork done and with enough adult leaders bought a bunch of these tickets. In due time the conductor came up and seemed rather put out with groups of boys along an an aduly on the 5 person tickets. He was duly directed to me aqs the officer in charge and was a bit miffed for some odd reason and said it wasn't right and I should have applied for a Party Booking.

In return I pointed out the rules. "One adult paying full fare, 4 young people for £1 each." There was no other condition so we were doing it quite properly whether in a uniformed group or not and I stood my ground and said he had to comply with the rules the railway published! He went away in a mod as if he was losing something but I was right!
 
On most Amtrak services (at least those I have ridden), the conductor will take your ticket when boarding. Since most Amtrak trains are all-reserved (reservations required for all accommodations), the conductor will not only check for the ticket, he/she will check that you have a reservation for that particular train.
 
I had my monthly pass stolen once. That cost me $120 extra that month for commuting. This was about 15 years ago. The pass is now twice that for the same ride.

I placed my monthly pass on the seat clip like everyone else, then proceeded to do some reading. The conductor came by and asked for my ticket. I told him I had placed my pass on the seat, but it wasn't there! I could feel my stomach churn inside out with nerves as I looked around under the seat for my card, which was not to be found!

The conductor let me ride for free that night. He knew I was a regular anyway, and had seen my pass that morning. He happened to have the same train in and out that day.

This card, by the way, was good for all subway, trolley, bus, and commuter stations all the way through to the end on all lines. We pay by zones, and I was taking the train to the last zone on my route.

John
 
@ thartman1956 - Commuter services are free seating over here. The only reserved tickets tend to be on inter city services although that doesn't apply to every seat.

On that note, I recall a journey from Newcastle to Edinburgh when 3 friends and I boarded the train with reserved tickets. We found our seats and there were 3 well heeled people sitting there without reservations. Of course we asked them politely to move and received nothing but abuse and as the guard appeared, I asked hime to get them to move which, after checking everyones tickets, he did. As they didn't have reservations it was easy enough but once the train was moving, I checked my ticket again and realised the mistake was ours, we were in the wrong carriage. Ooops.

Better still, the guard came back and said to me he had noticed we were in the wrong carriage but that the people he'd moved had been thouroughly obnoxious all the way from London so he was more than happy to move them and say nothing about our error.
 
pfx said:
@ thartman1956 - Commuter services are free seating over here. The only reserved tickets tend to be on inter city services although that doesn't apply to every seat.

On that note, I recall a journey from Newcastle to Edinburgh when 3 friends and I boarded the train with reserved tickets. We found our seats and there were 3 well heeled people sitting there without reservations. Of course we asked them politely to move and received nothing but abuse and as the guard appeared, I asked hime to get them to move which, after checking everyones tickets, he did. As they didn't have reservations it was easy enough but once the train was moving, I checked my ticket again and realised the mistake was ours, we were in the wrong carriage. Ooops.

Better still, the guard came back and said to me he had noticed we were in the wrong carriage but that the people he'd moved had been thouroughly obnoxious all the way from London so he was more than happy to move them and say nothing about our error.
Click to expand...

@pfx - You and those other people are lucky that you all weren't simply put off the train!

Commuter services are unreserved over here as well. It's kind of hard and awkward to require reservations for commuter services for both the commuter and the transit agency.

Amtrak's coach reservations policy is somewhat strange. While you have to book in advance to ride an all-reserved train, the seats themselves are generally unassigned, unlike the airlines where you are generally assigned to a certain seat. Business Class, Acela Express service, and all sleeping-car accommodations do have assigned space.
 
Hi Everybody.
Although I believe that most fare evasion is committed on local services I have to agree with pfx that when it comes to intercity and regional services it is disagreements regarding seat reservations and passengers not having valid tickets that are the most common (example, boarding with an off-peak ticket during what is designated as peak hours)

When it comes to HST intercity services many people who do not travel regularly on the British rail system find the proliferation of various fares and and tickets utterly baffling to say the least. About 18 months ago after being criticised by the government the train companies supposedly simplified the system but all that seemed to have happened is the elimination of the apex super advanced tickets which were the cheapest you could buy. These where the tickets that were very often used by pensioners which combined with their concessionary rail cards made travelling reasonably cheap on the railways for this particular group.

However, to get the thread back on topic somewhat, as stated I believe that most fare evasion is committed on local commuter services where trains often stop at unmanned stations and where the collection of fares is either through the use of ticket machines that totally baffle most users or is reliant on the train crew to collect fare while the train is travelling. As the unprecedented rise in the number of people now using the rail system for commuting continues, it is often virtually impossible for ticket inspectors on the train to get through the carriages packed with passengers to collect the fares.

As a regular rail user on intercity, regional and local services I have to say I believe the whole ticket and fare system needs a complete overhaul with simplification and fare security being top of the agenda. The present system virtually encourages fare dodgers and often penalises those who are genuinely trying to pay the correct fare and yet still find themselves on the wrong side of the train company through the proliferation of any amount of fare schedules and rules.

Bill
 
Fare dodging is still bascially a crime.

I had a young man obviously from a good background, who had been arrested by British Transport Police for fare dodging and brought before me on the bench for this matter. He had on arrival at Glasgow (Queen Street) tried to convince the staff at the gate that he had got on at a particular station part way along. However, unknown to him there was a pogrom on by the rail company on dodgers on the route and they included at the station he claimed he got on. He therefor was lying and caught out. He was defending himself and a tad arrogant. Once I had fined him he had the audacity to ask "How did your Honour manage to come to that decision?" (!). The Court staff looked at me in surprise at such a nonsense and he was advised to see to paying his fine or before he pushed the boat any further.

Now there is a tighter regime and mains stations have ticket access gates, etc and it is quite right that these fraudsters get seen to for the large sums lost.
 
wholbr said:
...I believe that most fare evasion is committed on local commuter services where trains often stop at unmanned stations and where the collection of fares is either through the use of ticket machines that totally baffle most users or is reliant on the train crew to collect fare while the train is travelling...

Bill
Click to expand...

A growing number of rail tickets, both commuter and intercity are being sold online, through the train companies or transit agencies' websites and even mobile phone apps. These websites and mobile apps allows one to purchase tickets using a credit card, electronic funds transfer, or even PayPal, and book reserved space if needed. Do you think that the growing trend towards online and mobile app ticketing will lead to still more fare evasion or less?
 
Speaking of not having a ticket, on my last trip to London, I purchased a return on the Stanstead express (airport to city train for those who don't know) a couple of months in advance online.

To get the tickets, you stick the debit card used to make the original payment into the machine and it gives you tickets. I did this and got a ticket and receipt.

On the train however, the guard asked for my ticket and I was mortified to discover the machine had only printed the return. Stupidly, I was thinking the train company had started printing a single ticket for both parts of the journey as bus companies do.

Fortunately I had the online receipt (being a paranoid traveller) and the guard accepted this as proof of my purchase which he didn't have to. He kindly enough offered to make sure I could get out the ticket barriers at Liverpool St station too.

I've also managed to avoid a £10 fine on the London underground previously. I got on at an unmanned station in zone 3 and had no clue about the fares or the ticket machines. I purchased a single for £1.80 or something and hopped on a train into the city centre.

I was in a panic when I put my ticket in the exit gate to be told 'Seek Assistance'. When I explained to the guard, he said I should have paid £3 odd and I would be fined for not having the correct fare. Rightly or wrongly, I played the dumb tourist and he decided to let me off with a warning.

My lesson is don't be stupid when buying your tickets! Hehe.
 
Just the other day I was riding the metro into the city centre from my suburb and had bought a concession ticket as I usually do, (I'm a student) but during my rush to get out of bed and to the station I managed to leave home without my concession ID in my wallet...
Of course the transit cops had to come though my train on that day and check my ticket ( that has happened to me about 5 times in the last 2 years) and alas I had no proof of age on me. I received an on the spot $100 fine, but wrote an appeal immediately after i got home sending them all my correct details, no word yet on weather I have escaped the fine or not, but you would think they would let it go? ah well.

Edit: got a letter in the mail saying the fine had been withdrawn
 
Last edited:
Hi Everybody.
pfx said:
I've also managed to avoid a £10 fine on the London underground previously. I got on at an unmanned station in zone 3 and had no clue about the fares or the ticket machines. I purchased a single for £1.80 or something and hopped on a train into the city centre.

I was in a panic when I put my ticket in the exit gate to be told 'Seek Assistance'. When I explained to the guard, he said I should have paid £3 odd and I would be fined for not having the correct fare. Rightly or wrongly, I played the dumb tourist and he decided to let me off with a warning.

My lesson is don't be stupid when buying your tickets! Hehe.
Click to expand...

Hi Everybody.
£3.00 from zone 3 to zone one pfx. That must have been quite some time ago............Ahhhhhhhh the good old days when beer was 20p a pint and you could get a steak pie on the station for 12p,hehehe.

Seriously though, few months ago I travelled from Perivale which I think is in zone four into zone one (Holbourn) and that cost eight pounds return and it's gone up again since then. I think I paid £3.50 the week before last to travel from Paddington to Holbourn which is all in zone one.

Most definitely the days are gone when you could travel around all day on the London Underground for just a few quid. On top of that the mainline fair from my local station here in Somerset to London Paddington is now over £180 return for a standard open ticket. Add your underground fair on top of that and you're looking at close to £200 for a one-day trip to London.

Who says times are better now

Bill
 
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