Explanation from someone at N3v please.

BLACKWATCH

Mechanical Engineer
Why was it thought to include in the TS12 'In Built' ECML feature, an asset by 'Lotharhake', that to update, hogs
an unwarranted 31.7 mb ?

NO single asset should ever be this resource hungry, it's no bloody wonder that users moan about freezing, this one
creator must own 90% of the highest resource hogging assets, not bad thing if they are worth it, but they ain't, there
are dozens of comparable objects out there, that are MUCH more frame freindly, LOTHARHAKE is killing this sim for the
majority of users, just to satisfy his own bloody ego, after all, the asset in question, is only a bloody TIN SHACK.

Asset in question = kuid2:68787:25058:17

58472744.jpg
 
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The following can be attributed to the increased size in assets:

Higher resolution textures, seasonal textures and stricter requirements of extra LOD meshes and associated textures.
 
The following can be attributed to the increased size in assets:

Higher resolution textures, seasonal textures and stricter requirements of extra LOD meshes and associated textures.

Yes, but other creators do this without the MEGA asset sizes that Lotharhake prefers.
His/her assets are no better than other creators who use a tenth of the megabytes that Lotharhake uses.

We all know that it only takes 1 super mega size asset to freeze our enjoyment, so WHY 'o' WHY does N3v pamper to this clown ??????????????
 
The following can be attributed to the increased size in assets:

Higher resolution textures, seasonal textures and stricter requirements of extra LOD meshes and associated textures.


True but I don't think those features are responsible for what Blackwatch is complaining about. The asset has 117,000 triangles (yikes!) and no less than 36 separate textures in the base LOD. Looking at it as a wire-frame in PEV's mesh viewer, you can easily see that it's just simple planes, boxes and cylinders but with zillions of totally unnecessary subdivisions. The fact that it reduces to 21,000 triangles at the first transition and then to 48 triangles indicates just how unnecessarily bloated the base object is.

I suspect the original object was obtained from some other source like Sketchup or AutoCAD and converted, without much finesse, to Trainz format.



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True but I don't think those features are responsible for what Blackwatch is complaining about. The asset has 117,000 triangles (yikes!) and no less than 36 separate textures in the base LOD. Looking at it as a wire-frame in PEV's mesh viewer, you can easily see that it's just simple planes, boxes and cylinders but with zillions of totally unnecessary subdivisions. The fact that it reduces to 21,000 triangles at the first transition and then to 48 triangles indicates just how unnecessarily bloated base object is.

I suspect the original object was obtained from some other source like Sketchup or AutoCAD and converted, without much finesse, to Trainz format.

A tin shack that goes to 117,000 polys.....wtf & 36 separate textures.....just plain stupid

I could do the same shack with hi-detail at first LOD and still get under 1,000 polys and only 1 texture map. Probably wouldn't even need to LOD it.
 
True but I don't think those features are responsible for what Blackwatch is complaining about. The asset has 117,000 triangles (yikes!) and no less than 36 separate textures in the base LOD. Looking at it as a wire-frame in PEV's mesh viewer, you can easily see that it's just simple planes, boxes and cylinders but with zillions of totally unnecessary subdivisions. The fact that it reduces to 21,000 triangles at the first transition and then to 48 triangles indicates just how unnecessarily bloated base object is.

I suspect the original object was obtained from some other source like Sketchup or AutoCAD and converted, without much finesse, to Trainz format.

That's a very good possibility too. If I remember correctly, Turbo Squid is also a source of freely available 3ds models, and if this is the case we better keep our eyes open for that!

John
 
That's a very good possibility too. If I remember correctly, Turbo Squid is also a source of freely available 3ds models, and if this is the case we better keep our eyes open for that!

John

There's no attribution as to the source, so I guess we'll never know for sure who originally made it.

I echo your concern about 3DS Max models from TurboSquid. I actually paid money for one of theirs when I was doing the house "Fallingwater" for Epoche3bis4. It turned out to be totally unworkable due to extremely wasteful construction. Worse than what we see in the example above. Luckily a friend found a much more tractable (and free) model for me from somewhere else. Even so, it's initial high-poly state was too much. It took months to trim it down to a poly-count that is acceptable in Trainz.
 
I was going to take issue with the name-calling, but the asset really is - over the top. A 12mb texture file for a sack of cement, not to mention that it's inside the building. Uniform textures all throughout the building that is too high poly.

However, his Lamborghinis have now set an all-time record for bad design. 804k polys for the base (tesla.im) LOD0 mesh. 168k for the next LoD.

Pretty sure this might touch the line of DLS abuse.
 
There's no attribution as to the source, so I guess we'll never know for sure who originally made it.

I echo your concern about 3DS Max models from TurboSquid. I actually paid money for one of theirs when I was doing the house "Fallingwater" for Epoche3bis4. It turned out to be totally unworkable due to extremely wasteful construction. Worse than what we see in the example above. Luckily a friend found a much more tractable (and free) model for me from somewhere else. Even so, it's initial high-poly state was too much. It took months to trim it down to a poly-count that is acceptable in Trainz.

A friend of mine used to be their marketing VP and has just left there. If she heard your complaints, I'm sure she would have done something about it as she is one of the authors for books on 3ds Max. There's a possibility that your particular model wasn't originally a Max model, but instead made its way via some other cad program or AutoCad, which is famous, or infamous for its high poly models. I worked at a consulting firm that created training films, and we were forced to use some AutoCAD models, which we imported into 3ds Max for animation. They were so high poly, that our machines crashed. The original model creator had to merge lines and do other things with the models to make them workable for us.

Regarding this content creator, I am quite surprised he doesn't know better. He's been creating models for years for the Trainz community.

John
 
Hahaha...don't shoot poor Lothar, most/some of his created models stem from way way back when anyone could create anything any which way and upload such to the DLS. That would have been when AURAN should have put their foot down with not only guide lines of "How to create..." but should have enforced this rigorous by not accepting such assets for the DLS.

Since that horse has already bolted a long time ago, it is too late now to fix this except now to clean out the DLS of all these "cr@p" assets. After all, there would be at least a similar asset or more available there as a replacement with much more performance friendly properties. Even AURAN, now called N3V Games (still the same mob AFAI am concerned) places such similar huge performing robbing assets from the DLS into TANE, calling these "PayWare or Buildin" and reference these in their code NOT to show any errors or such. These are the assets bringing TANE performance wise to its knees but if you and I d/load these same inbuild assets from the d/load station, we WILL get errors with these in CM.

The end of the story is, as they (N3V Games) seem to be either incapable or too slow to get any real performance optimization out of TANE any time soon, IF ever, we REAL and good content creators are therefore penalized much too much in restrictions of how to create good, correct and good performing assets now. This should NOT be necessary for us content creators now having to carry the burden for past and present sins of AURAN/N3V Games.

You don't believe me? Just have a look at any of the current or even older released REAL games, where a myriad of animated people, moving war machinery, many 3D effects, having very good looking static scenery assets, super realistic waters, flowing waterfalls and rivers/creeks, what have you, are doing all their things in a single scene without complaining or stuttering on even mid end specced PCs. Yet N3V Games can not even get TANE to run proper on almost most higher-end PCs, if I would have known that earlier, I could have ordered a Craig Computer to try to run TANE on it with the old assets on the DLS included as PayWare and buildins.

Please don't give me that N3V Games is a small company, we all know that but it seems they have started something which most likely they will not end in a year's time, if at all. Why couldn't they have first improved TS12 further, as it needed this, to sell it as, say, TS13 or TS14 while a couple of years ago some of their surplus coders could have started on the Win 64 bit new Jet version with all promised features included, where some of these probably never ever see the light of day, as N3V Games most likely will move on to the next irritating, half ar$ed performing edition of TANE and therefore repeating "ad nauseum" (look it up in Google if you don't know) what they have done since TRS06, never to completely finish a certain edition and just moving on to the next and doing the same on and on.

Breaking on the way previous asset building, scripts, whatever was broken by moving on to the next edition of Trainz and just repeating the same cycle of the inefficient assets on the DLS over and over again. How many times in the past have they (AURAN/N3V Games) promised, they will give content creators tools, help, instructions etc. so we at least would have known how to create correct, proper, current and future proof content for Trainz. Did they, have they?

Now we are back again with BETA testing for TANE, I thought this was OVER and DONE with some months ago, it seems, the management and programmers are just stumbling from one issue to another, not exactly knowing what to do next. This is REALLY sad to see how low Trainz has come at this point in time. Wasn't it bad enough to promise for release a "Trainz A New Era" before Christmas last year (2014), with fancy, never realistic videos as is NOT current in TANE and many promises, then realizing they could NEVER ever release what was made so far, extending the release date first to end of March 2015 ad finally rushing out "virtual tea coaster" DVDs in boxed versions later in May 2015. Since then, always one step forward, two steps back with their so called "updated" versions of TANE. Plus the INFERNAL USE of PATCHES, where they said the can not get a large EXE file for us to d/load and execute, hence this had to be done from their servers only. Well HALLO, their own install EXE on the DVDs is broken down into several "bin" files, showing only that they wanted to pull the wool over our eyes by mudding this patching issue.

And there was the DRM issue, never explained before and never said to be introduced before by them, they even lied to us, when buying a boxed edition of TANE originally, these were meant to be DRM free but later ONLY "certain boxed editions" would be exempted from DRM and as this issue blew massively up here in the forum, finally they backed down with DRM. Rightfully so, as this was NEVER discussed and said when introducing TANE first.

Would YOU believe them NOW, whatever they might say of TANE? Would YOU REALLY, after all the above has happened? Some of you Yanks call this "snake oil" selling, we have a harsher word for this here in Australia, which I am not game enough to post or I get "b@nned" here.

What is the future now for TANE? Where do we as content creators go from here? I certainly do not know, I have several assets for TANE already created to the first LOD, not knowing what "THEY" will chop and change from one day to the next, screwing us content creators so much further down with their sometimes ridiculous rules for content creating presently in force for TANE. I give you just a little example, if I create a good looking locomotive for TANE, which ALWAYS will have other meshes attached to the main mesh via attachment points. Now ALL THESE SO attached meshes are INCLUDED into the total of their 500 polygon limit for its last LOD, which is NOT a 500 polygon limit as one gets as warning/error notice in CM but a 500 triangle limit of a mesh.

Which is often LESS than 500 polygons, sometimes only half (250 polygons or so), hence even harder to achieve with ALL these attachments attached to the main mesh. Which is sometime really IMPOSSIBLE to achieve but that is what one now gets if the programmers of TANE are NOT content creators, hence they DO NOT KNOW what is involved in good and proper content creating. At the moment one can not cull attachments nor animations at a certain point in distance of the point of view of a scenery, again, we content creators are having to carry the can for programmers either not knowing of how to program this or are incapable to do this. Among other things still not working, like certain night mode tags, some auto numbering etc. after their so called "release" of TANE a few months ago.

Perhaps harsh words for some BUT it is the truth, if N3V Games can not handle the truth, they should never have commenced with this shamble of what is currently TANE and should have waited until they have better programmers.

My opinion as a content creator, who is really sad to see where we currently are with TANE.

VinnyBarb
 
Why was it thought to include in the TS12 'In Built' ECML feature, an asset by 'Lotharhake', that to update, hogs
an unwarranted 31.7 mb ?
Question:
Did you contact Lotharhake about it?

He might not even be aware of it (anymore). He has probably has grown as a content creator a bit and maybe it willing to update some of his obvious overkill assets.

Uploading a killer asset is one (bad) thing, but what surprises me more though is that other users keep using those assets in their route.
I mean, the builders from the ECML also have been around for some time and should know to avoid assets like this?

I check the downloaded (dependency) assets for size and disable the larger asset directly after download to avoid using them myself.
 
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