Eurostar Breakdowns

J

john259

Razorback Railway
The Eurostar breakdowns of 18/19/20-Dec-09 are being blamed on condensation caused by entering the warmer air in the Channel Tunnel. What do experts here think? Is there a fundamental design problem with the locos? Do countries such as Switzerland and Austria with electric trains running through long tunnels in cold weather encounter the same problem?

John
 
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It's got the smell of horse feathers about it John. Those sort of met conditions occur too often to be a real problem. They seem to very vague about where and how this condensation affected the trains. They seem to be suggesting that the motors were affected, but I suspect it was a system fault.

For condensation to form in warmer air, the initial temperature of the surface needs to be considerably colder, and I can't imagine the motor or machinery spaces being that cold.

As one passenger asked, if there were 2 trains stuck in the tunnel, why did they let a third one in?

Cheers
 
Probably blame it on the wrong kind of condensation or maybe the wrong kind of passengers next time. Bring back steam never any problems then.
 
Stationbeem said:
Probably blame it on the wrong kind of condensation or maybe the wrong kind of passengers next time. Bring back steam never any problems then.
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Well you are nearly right!! They are blaming the wrong type of snow. Apparently the French snow was too 'Fluffy' and bypassed the snow shields soaking the electrics. That coupled with the lowest external temperatures and highest tunnel temperatures, they have ever experienced, caused it all to become discombobulated. Took 'em a little time to think that one up.

Regards Bruce
 
There are various forms of snow and its the powdery variety that can cause the most problems for railway operators . With the passage of the train it gets blown up and enters into electrical equipment through grills etc . The problem is most of the year those grills are needed to ventilate the electrical equipment and stop it from overheating so are a necessity but as proved on many occasions (class 321's suffered with the same problem a few years back which grounded most of the fleet) they can be the cause of the problems . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_wrong_type_of_snow

Don't even get me started on leaves !! It's a problem A BIG PROBLEM , why do you think Network Rail runs all those water jetting / sandite trains ..... it's not so the local enthusiast can have something different to look at !!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_rail
 
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Ahh, leaves. The Victorians managed relatively okay - by, you know, clearing the trees away from railway lines and such. You can clearly see on Google Earth there are trees near and even overhanging the lines in many, many places. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to work out that trees = falling leaves.
 
It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to work out that trees = falling leaves
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But you fail to work into that equasion, the known fact, that British management are so busy padding out their bank accounts, that their rrrse has to speak for them.
 
knight42 said:
Ahh, leaves. The Victorians managed relatively okay - by, you know, clearing the trees away from railway lines and such. You can clearly see on Google Earth there are trees near and even overhanging the lines in many, many places. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to work out that trees = falling leaves.
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But remember in steam days the trees and undergrowth were cleared to avoid fire (I have seen the spectacular results of a train setting fire to a field on the Severn Valley Railway). It was really only when this practice was no longer needed that the problem was discovered.With hindsight we can now see the problem it produced. It was accentuated by the use of modern type brakes rather than the old fashioned rim brakes of steam days and also I believe by the different behaviour of modern diesel and electic locomotives with their smaller wheels.
 
According to the news here down under, a total of four Eurostar's were stranded in the Chunnel. I'm thinking, if they need to ventilate the engines in summer, why not do something stupid like close the vents in Winter to keep snow out? Or maybe electrically heat/cool the engine room.

And there are a number of reasons why thy don't run steam trains in the Chunnel.
1. Pollution. I know they have exhaust fans in it, but probably not able to cope with the smoke output of a steamer.
2. It would take a steamer, even the Mallard, twice the time it takes with an electric to get through.
3. You wouldn't be able to maintain speed because you can't feed the boiler in the tunnel without blowback, and lots of it.
And the list goes on. There are reasons electric trains exist.
 
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This condensation issue is well known. A retired Eurostar engineer was talking about it at a lecture in Northampton on the 26th November!

Apparently the fans are whirring away all through the cold of Northern France, and everything gets nice and cold, then they enter the warm, moist air in the tunnel, and everything cold gets suddenly drippping wet.

I nearly choked when I heard a quote on the radio saying the "Eurostar engineers were baffled by the problem" as this one was clearly very familiar with it - though not on a large enough scale to cause total failure.

Anthony
 
rogjohn said:
As much as I like steam, the thought of a steam engine in the channel tunnel.....
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Search on Youtube for the terms "steam harbour bridge" by the user bwDVD. Why? Because that steam engine (of course it wouldn't have been in steam!!) just came from the tunnels that make up part of Sydney's railways.

Edit: Actually it is in steam - wonder how they got permission to send a steam engine through Sydney's underground? :eek:
 
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