Duluth/Superior

Hey Sawyer - This is an interesting conundrum - the fine line between realistic operation and something fun to run in Trainz.

I need someone to look over this stuff if I ever release it.

The actual yard is based on photos and a track diagram, the rest on photos. Some of it is probably unrealistic in that sense and I'm honestly not that familiar with curves, switches, etc. The one you mention is based on a photograph from Proctor - and the track there looks wonky with crazy curves, bent rails, etc. Ultimately it's historic fiction in that you have to be able to run it in trainz - so a combination of a prototypical route and a basement layout. For example, the actual yard at Proctor was huge and would have had hundreds of orecars - there is no way my computer could cope with that much rolling stock at once. I made static versions of the orecars but it is still pretty taxing.

But . . . having said that . . . I at least want it somewhat realistic:'(. I wonder if I was looking at trolley tracks in the photo I saw????

sawyer811 said:
I like the route, but may i point something out? That rail-only switch near the foreground looks a bit twisty, and sharp. It also looks like the 2-8-0 is going around a trolley curve, which i'm sure would either end in spread rail, broken joints, damaged drivers, or any combination of those three:eek:.

Again, i don't mean to knock the route, the scenery is fantastic...and i really want to run it, don't get me wrong. I just don't know about those switches. They just bother me. Maybe it's just my track preferinces.
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Northern Pacific

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NP-lumber.jpg
 
tariacuri said:
Hey Sawyer - This is an interesting conundrum - the fine line between realistic operation and something fun to run in Trainz.

I need someone to look over this stuff if I ever release it.

The actual yard is based on photos and a track diagram, the rest on photos. Some of it is probably unrealistic in that sense and I'm honestly not that familiar with curves, switches, etc. The one you mention is based on a photograph from Proctor - and the track there looks wonky with crazy curves, bent rails, etc. Ultimately it's historic fiction in that you have to be able to run it in trainz - so a combination of a prototypical route and a basement layout. For example, the actual yard at Proctor was huge and would have had hundreds of orecars - there is no way my computer could cope with that much rolling stock at once. I made static versions of the orecars but it is still pretty taxing.

But . . . having said that . . . I at least want it somewhat realistic:'(. I wonder if I was looking at trolley tracks in the photo I saw????
Click to expand...

Eh, it's okay. A good rule of thumb i go by is leave about 2-3 yellow edged squares for the length of the diverging track, and the end of spline circle just ouside the circle of the main track...but then agian, i like running big engines like 2-10-2s, 2-8-8-2s, and big 6-axle deisels like SD45s, so i build my layouts around that...but for smaller engines like 2-8-0s and 2-8-2s, I'd say a 2 yellow square limit for a switch (about 20 meters) length of the diverging track, and the circles about 1-2m apart before setting off. Also, to avoid the strange-looking switch that was on the rail-only track, never lock down the track dirverging immediately from the switch with the "straighten track" tool.

Not trying to tell you how to do your job, Just trying to pass along some advice from what i've learned over the years of tracklaying. I hope i'm not telling you anything you already know:confused:
 
Regarding steep turnouts....

A german guy made some nice and easy-to.use templates, if you are interested, PM me and I can search them for you.

But so far, this project looks waaaay coool. I especially like that you are able to re-create that special "old tymes" flair. Great job on that.

Cheers from germany.
 
Hey, Yeah, my yard is for sure tight then. I know that they redid some of the yard for the Yellowstones, not sure about the other large steam earlier?? They also relaid many curves so that the larger tenders would not compromise adjacent tracks - hangover adjacent tracks. They also took large power out onto the docks - pretty amazing.


sawyer811 said:
Eh, it's okay. A good rule of thumb i go by is leave about 2-3 yellow edged squares for the length of the diverging track, and the end of spline circle just ouside the circle of the main track...but then agian, i like running big engines like 2-10-2s, 2-8-8-2s, and big 6-axle deisels like SD45s, so i build my layouts around that...but for smaller engines like 2-8-0s and 2-8-2s, I'd say a 2 yellow square limit for a switch (about 20 meters) length of the diverging track, and the circles about 1-2m apart before setting off. Also, to avoid the strange-looking switch that was on the rail-only track, never lock down the track dirverging immediately from the switch with the "straighten track" tool.

Not trying to tell you how to do your job, Just trying to pass along some advice from what i've learned over the years of tracklaying. I hope i'm not telling you anything you already know:confused:
Click to expand...
 
Hey, PM sent.

Isegrinns said:
Regarding steep turnouts....

A german guy made some nice and easy-to.use templates, if you are interested, PM me and I can search them for you.

But so far, this project looks waaaay coool. I especially like that you are able to re-create that special "old tymes" flair. Great job on that.

Cheers from germany.
Click to expand...
 
I guess i should ask which railroad, DM&N or D&IR, you are modelling first, but i'll just be generic; what were the rosters of the two Iron-Ore haulers like at this point? I mean, what were the engines? 2-8-2s. 2-8-0s, 2-6-0s, probably?

By the way, this route looks amazing. I've been trying to force myself to build an Iron-ore hauling route, but i just don't think i could do the area justice. Certainly not like you're doing here. I can't wait for this route to be released, the Mallets and the Santa Fes are waiting patiently in the roundhouse:D
 
Hey everyone - thanks for the props

In answer to Sawyer

I've mixed content from the two roads together - I have some DM&N stuff, and some D&IR, along with routes and companies that are 'historic fiction'. The two lines had essentially the same lineup, especially after 1901 when they both came under the control of US Steel. I have also created some versions that did not exist. For example some documentation suggests that both lines placed a herald version of their logos on rolling stock but I can't find a single picture of a herald used this way (aside from tenders) prior to the DM&IR merger. But . . . I love the way the heralds look.

The entire route is essentially historic fiction. I had originally thought I would do three time periods to mimic the three major periods of growth (1) through 1900, 2) through 1916 or so - WWI, 3) post WWII/transitional to diesel), but it's way to much.

So . . . now what I've done is 1) up to early 1900's, 2) post 1916 or so with a diesel layer that can be switched off. I had also meant to change the track configurations slightly to better enable larger steam but that would mean massive amounts of work. I've also had to simplify everything to make it more Trainz friendly - I don't think most computers could handle 60 ore sorting ladders filled with cars - and not many people would want to switch that stuff out for hours and hours (I suspect anyway). I've also pulled off quite a bit of the vegetation - especially grasses - to increase the frame rates

The route has the following elements 1) open pit mine which I may do in narrow (and there were some narrow lines in the mines) - fleshed out but not finished, 2) yard based loosely on Proctor seen in the pics above, 3)
4 ore docks which are arranged spatially like those at Allouez but with the old style approaches @ Duluth - expanded a bit to make them easier to operate with Trainz, 2 grain docks which need some work, and a turn of the century Great Lakes shipyard that is modeled very loosely on what would become Fraser in Superior - though I have it set at Duluth.

This shipyard would have started out making Whalebacks and I have some pics in this thread. A transportation historian has reconstructed the shipyard but has not yet published those data. The docks, the yard, and the shipyard are close though not connected.

When I started I was trying to make everything to scale in a prototypical way but it's not feasible to do this and get something you can actually run in Trainz. For example, the long approaches and proper length ore docks kill the draw distance.

In terms of locos up to 1900 or so it was all 2-8-0's and 4-8-0's with some early wood burners and some passenger setups. Post 1900 add 2-8-2's, 1916 2-10-2's appear, post 1941 all the big stuff, diesels appear 1950, last steam 1962 - so you have over a decade with both types of power. They also used this stuff to death - 4 wheel cabooses appear well into the 1930's (and possibly beyond).

Ultimately my interest lies in recreating the look and feel of the period rather then a strict prototypical setup. I really enjoying setting up scenes that make me feel as if I'm there.

Some of this will have to go on the back burner a little bit as my busy season has begun and real life is intruding a bit.

Chris

sawyer811 said:
I guess i should ask which railroad, DM&N or D&IR, you are modelling first, but i'll just be generic; what were the rosters of the two Iron-Ore haulers like at this point? I mean, what were the engines? 2-8-2s. 2-8-0s, 2-6-0s, probably?

By the way, this route looks amazing. I've been trying to force myself to build an Iron-ore hauling route, but i just don't think i could do the area justice. Certainly not like you're doing here. I can't wait for this route to be released, the Mallets and the Santa Fes are waiting patiently in the roundhouse:D
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Take a look in the Google 3d Warehouse.... there's more ships in there than you can shake a stick at... all you have to do is convert them.......
 
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