Does not inspire confidence - TANE

amigacooke said:
Try googling for faulty software in cars and I think you'll find that cars are recalled for faulty software.
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Software generally doesn't get recalled for bugs. Moreover, customers don't typically receive a fixed product or a refund as a result.
 
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RRSignal said:
Software generally doesn't get recalled for bugs. Moreover, customers don't typically receive a fixed product or a refund as a result.
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You don't need to recall software and bugs do get fixed, one of the benefits of the internet distribution.

Is safety critical software backed by a budget of millions really comparable to entertainment software backed by a budget of tens, hundreds of thousands?
 
amigacooke said:
You don't need to recall software and bugs do get fixed, one of the benefits of the internet distribution.

Is safety critical software backed by a budget of millions really comparable to entertainment software backed by a budget of tens, hundreds of thousands?
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Recalls, in some cases, ultimately lead to a refund if deem irreparable. AFAIK, no one's ever offered to give me my money back because they wrote a defective product.

Not to mention software was distributed before the internet was ubiquitous. Among other methods were CDs, floppies, ROM and tapes. Still, no recalls, and patches, when offered, often break as much as they fix.
 
RRSignal said:
Still, no recalls, and patches, when offered, often break as much as they fix.
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Why would you want to recall software, what would be the point of sending it back?

Patches, when offered, often break as much as they fix
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That is clearly a personal opinion which may or may not have any basis in fact. I'd suspect the latter.
 
Something tells me inside that this release will be different than the others mainly because there is more at stake this time with people putting up the money through the Kickstarter program. This is quite different than what we've seen in the past where the product is made, the alpha and beta teams are selected from a small pool of tester, and then the process goes through. People from the community have been involved right from the get go on this, in this case as these are more than just picked volunteers testing a software package.

I agree that software, like other products, should be returnable, but software is usually fixable in an easier way than physical goods such as an automobile where it's necessary to replace the object its self with a new one. A software package, yes, will be replaced, but through a download that is sent to the customer directly. In all my years in the high tech industry, I have never seen a program that was returned for any reason other than faulty installation media. With today's digital download world even this is now something that's going the way of the black and white films, and 8-track tapes.

John
 
Those who are not proud of and do not remember there history are bound to repeat it.
nicky9499 said:
If you would kindly stop rubbing in everybody's faces how old you are with the "been there done that" crap that'd be great. Is a little bit of faith too much to ask? T2 hasn't even hit beta yet, for crying out loud.
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That is clearly a personal opinion which may or may not have any basis in fact. I'd suspect the latter.
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Your opinion is clearly a personal.opinon which may or may not have any basis in fact. I know its a fact.
 
amigacooke said:
Why would you want to recall software, what would be the point of sending it back?

That is clearly a personal opinion which may or may not have any basis in fact. I'd suspect the latter.
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Presumably, for reimbursement. Or, in the olden days when media was expensive, reuse. Of course, it didn't happen too often, because software manufacturers feel they are exempt from the general expectations of proper/correct/safe manufacture that govern most if not all other products.
 
Since I came in at TRZ2.4 there have been major problems that have not been fixed to this day So EXCUSE me for being a little concerned.

ANOTHER old guy..70.
Also please excuse my sentence structure
 
wholbr said:
Purchasers of new cars rightly do not accept any hint of the vehicles software containing “ bugs “ which could give, send or collect incorrect information regarding the engine control, brake system, cooling system, tyre pressures, distance sensors, other vehicle proximity, or the highly sophisticated satellite navigation systems all of which are included in the specification when the vehicle is being manufactured. Should any purchaser of a vehicle find any problems in its computer system/software no doubt they would immediately the return it to the dealership he/she purchased the vehicle from and possibly report the matter to the vehicle safety Inspectorate or similar body dependent on country.Bill
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There's a big difference between making cars and software. The car manufacturer spends money on R&D then builds a car for $x and sells it for $x+$y margin. There's a profit built in to every unit sold. The cost of the car is set by adding up the cost of each of the components, the cost of assembly and the business overheads. Once their R&D is recouped, the manufacturer makes a little bit of money from each car sold.

Software is quite a different beast. All the money is spent on R&D (mostly D) and the total budget is $x. The product then sells for a small fraction of the total cost (perhaps 1/100,00th of the $x total cost). Spending twice as much to develop/refine the product to make it better doesn't necessarily result in twice as many sales (which would be required in order to break even).

This time around, we sought the support of our fans to increase our development budget. This enabled us to add two extra programmers to the team. It also enabled us to get a publishing contract in Europe, and begin raising awareness of a new product. Last but not least, we could budget to take a year to complete the product, add a range of new features and have enough time (just) to complete the new game engine we had been working on for years already. So without Kickstarter, the was no possibility of aiming to deliver a product close to the standard TANE will be.

I will maintain my optimism and work towards ensuring that we do a great job of polishing TANE and ironing out the bugs. I am sure we will get a stable product, but I don't yet know the date that will happen. The upcoming testing phase will help us know where we are at in that regard, so we'll have a much better idea in a month or two.
 
In a software development context, these 2000 chimps don't have a pen to begin with, they just holler at the few ones who do. ;)
 
2000 chimps given long enough could probably write a best seller.:cool:

Sourdough said:
Actually they couldn't...better work on your sarcastic one liner skills...:cool:
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I think the original reference was that a group of apes pounding the keys of a typewriter at random would take x years to write the works of Shakespeare. A best seller is considerably shorter so it would be quicker, there is no reason to suppose that chimps would be less dexterous than an ape.

Cheerio John
 
johnwhelan said:
2000 chimps given long enough could probably write a best seller.:cool:



I think the original reference was that a group of apes pounding the keys of a typewriter at random would take x years to write the works of Shakespeare. A best seller is considerably shorter so it would be quicker, there is no reason to suppose that chimps would be less dexterous than an ape.

Cheerio John
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It wouldn't be any quicker. They wouldn't be able to do either in the exact same time frame....
 
John514 said:
Also, please don`t forget that TANE is made in a very short amount of time. I was surprised when the release date was announced.
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It isn't being made in a very short time. They started on this long before the Kickstarter campaign....the release date announced was valid only if the Kickstarter goal was met....it would have been longer if it hadn't.
 
johnwhelan said:
I think the original reference was that a group of apes pounding the keys of a typewriter at random would take x years to write the works of Shakespeare. A best seller is considerably shorter so it would be quicker, there is no reason to suppose that chimps would be less dexterous than an ape.
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References like this are way over some people's heads, obviously, whether or not they'd heard the reference before.
 
TANE, in my opinion, should take as much time as it needs to iron out the bugs and glitches, especially after the buggy initial release of TS12 and the messy fiasco that SP1 brought. I felt like TS12 was really just a slightly updated version of TS09 with a doppler effect, and I didn't really see the much of a difference between the three most recent versions. TANE looks nice, but it needs to be a change from the norm in Trainz. The most recent version of Trainz, with the seevice pack and all of the hotfixes, is still extremely buggy, and full of problems. No doubt, TANE will depart from previous versions in looks, with a new engine among other improvements, but if it isn't stable, then it won't be much of a "new era" after all.

JCitron, I think that the main thing at stake is reputation. If the release of TANE is botched, and the release is like that of past versions, the franchise will lose trust with consumers, especially if N3V doesn't follow through with committments that they have made along the way.

Sourdough, you need to work on your comebacks, they aren't as witty as you think they are.
 
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