Do I really need the recommended specs?

Check out PC Partpicker.com. They will show you who has the best prices. As you "build" a system on the website you can see the required wattage of power supply you will need. Also, check our Walmart. They have good prices on computers AND components. With all due respect to johnwhelan, I bought a iBuypower rig for just over $500.00USD on Amazon just before Christmas that runs TS12 just fine. Check out my specs below. Sure, an i5 or i7 processor and GTX 690 GPU will run better, but at a high cost. Not everyone has that kind of money to throw around right off the bat. I can upgrade anything I need later, piece by piece to improve performance. Good luck !
 
ccowan2126 said:
Check out PC Partpicker.com. They will show you who has the best prices. As you "build" a system on the website you can see the required wattage of power supply you will need. Also, check our Walmart. They have good prices on computers AND components. With all due respect to johnwhelan, I bought a iBuypower rig for just over $500.00USD on Amazon just before Christmas that runs TS12 just fine. Check out my specs below. Sure, an i5 or i7 processor and GTX 690 GPU will run better, but at a high cost. Not everyone has that kind of money to throw around right off the bat. I can upgrade anything I need later, piece by piece to improve performance. Good luck !
Click to expand...

I don't recall saying it couldn't be done for $500, http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-overclock,3106.html has your i3, however that is a fair chunk of change more than the AMD cpu suggested but I'd draw your attention to http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pc-gaming-overclock-build-a-pc,3443.html even here that figure doesn't include the operating system.

One difficulty is Trainz performance is subjective so what might be acceptable for you might not be someone else. Your idea of how many frames per second is acceptable might not be mine. It depends on your screen size, which assets you want to run, where you place them, your performance settings and the assets can have a major impact. One difficulty when trying to buy a system at this price point is if what you end up with isn't good enough then you need to spend more cash to improve it. If you have more cash available then if spend too much cash you still have a system that can be used for Trainz which is why quite a few people myself included tend to over specify the machines. An overspecced machine will work and underspecced machine will not. You also have to think in terms of the future, certainly for the next three years or so. Will the new assets be more efficient or less so? Currently many UK vans are 1,000 polys with 400 poly lod, the latest one I've seen is something like 17,000 polys and currently the lowest lod is 4,000 polys. It looks very good but it is more demanding in machine resources.

My recommendation is to think carefully and plan out what you are doing and know the implications. In this case there was a problem with the replacement video card if a more powerful one had been purchased rather than the cheapest he may well not have the performance problem to begin with. To me the GT610 would be the weak point of your system and I'd be suspicious about the power supply.

Cheerio John
 
Well you are right probably about the GT610 being the weak point but it is fine for what it is used for now but probably not that great for trainz 2012 (it works fine for trainz 2009 though but that doesn't need that much to run well compared to trainz 2012).
 
Greenvwbeetle said:
Well you are right probably about the GT610 being the weak point but it is fine for what it is used for now but probably not that great for trainz 2012 (it works fine for trainz 2009 though but that doesn't need that much to run well compared to trainz 2012).
Click to expand...

You should get better frame rates with TS12 than TS2009 using the same assets. N3V just put the recommended specs up and some of the built in layouts might be a bit more demanding. Speedtrees for example has its own rendering engine that I suspect is rather more efficient than the old jet engine so if you can keep the variety of trees down to less than five depending on your video card it should be fine.

I'd be inclined to buy TS12 when next it comes on sale then see how it runs. After that bug your dad and talk to him about the video card and see if he thinks its worth upgrading it rather than buy a new computer.

Cheerio John
 
I might buy it soon and if it is horrible I will probably look towards building a computer (I might even if it runs great) i have already talked to my dad about building my own computer and he was fine with me building one (the only problem I might have is my mom) I was going to build one a few years ago but never got to it mainly because of moving to a different place that doesn't have a big electronics store with plenty of computer parts (as far as i know there is none here) but I decided that I could just order parts.

also I started looking at newegg and might get stuff there since I noticed the other place some items were store pickup only (didn't see that at first).
 
Greenvwbeetle said:
I might buy it soon and if it is horrible I will probably look towards building a computer (I might even if it runs great) i have already talked to my dad about building my own computer and he was fine with me building one (the only problem I might have is my mom) I was going to build one a few years ago but never got to it mainly because of moving to a different place that doesn't have a big electronics store with plenty of computer parts (as far as i know there is none here) but I decided that I could just order parts.

also I started looking at newegg and might get stuff there since I noticed the other place some items were store pickup only (didn't see that at first).
Click to expand...

If you're going to roll your own then the first thing you need is an antistatic strap such as this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16899261001

The advantage of building your own is you can select the components but some people don't find it easy. I know of some one with an electrical engineering degree who took two years to put one together even with a kit of parts. It might be worth while to buy one of these first http://www.amazon.com/Raspberry-Pi-Model-Revision-256MB/dp/B008XVAUPI if you screw up it isn't that expensive and if you don't then it will give you a bit of confidence in putting a computer together.

Generally speaking when building your own you buy slightly higher grade components than if you buy a Walmart or Amazon special. On newegg look for items that have the most reviews with the highest ratings. Use tomshardware especially the PC builds http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pc-gaming-overclock-build-a-pc,3443.html I'd probably go with a 500 watt power supply but Antec's are a good brand, conservatively rated and often have power in reserve which is what you want. Some power supplies can be creative in their wattage rating. The rule of thumb is the higher the temparature the less reliable the electronic components are. This is standard chemistry rate of reaction stuff varies with temperature. So I suggest you don't over clock, over clocking raises the temp and the computer decays faster.

These days Lite-On make most of the DVD drives even with a different brand name. However the Lite-On brand one usually have the latest firmware and that makes a difference to programs such as Exact Copy Audio which you can use to make your own mp3s. Their blu-ray drive comes with software to play blu-ray movies by the way.

I happen to like ASUS motherboards but I tend to spend at least $150 on the motherboard. I think Tom's low end system uses an ASRock.

Anyway have fun, work out all the bits you need first and see if you can afford them don't forget to add in an operating system, ideally 64 bit.

Cheerio John
 
What I think I might do is go with the Pentium I listed in the post above and get a motherboard that would let me upgrade to a i3 or i5 in the future but the Pentium would probably be better than what I am using now.
 
Greenvwbeetle said:
What I think I might do is go with the Pentium I listed in the post above and get a motherboard that would let me upgrade to a i3 or i5 in the future but the Pentium would probably be better than what I am using now.
Click to expand...

Well since its in the 9th band on the hierarchy chart I agree with you. It's an interesting point, do you spend $70 on something that you intend to replace in a year or two with something that costs $120 or spend the $120 and feel more comfortable you won't need to replace it. One of life's tradeoffs and you'll have many to think about.

Of course there is another option go i3 without a graphics card, the nice intel processor for this would be an i5 with the 4000 graphics but there are versions of the i3 with 2000, 2500 and 4000 graphics available then when you're rich buy a graphics card.

Read up here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/...core-i7-2600k-i5-2500k-core-i3-2100-tested/11

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/intel-hd-graphics-2000-3000_11.html#sect0

The newer intel HD integrated graphics are quite respectable compared to the low end graphics cards and a lot better than the old generation.

If you look them up here http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html you'll see them on the right.

Cheerio John
 
That is about what I was thinking about doing building a computer with some room to expand to what I want Like using integrated graphics until I get a graphics card and I might put a little bit of ram in it at first and upgrade that in the future since that is really easy to upgrade (I have done that before). Maybe some other things would get upgraded like the CPU but, I wouldn't replace that for a while (that would be one of the last things I would upgrade) and then I would have a good Trainz computer and maybe some extra parts for another computer someday.

P.S. I will get an anti static wristband just to be safe but me and my brother have upgraded his old HP Pavilion on carpet multiple times without frying it however that can happen.
 
Greenvwbeetle said:
That is about what I was thinking about doing building a computer with some room to expand to what I want Like using integrated graphics until I get a graphics card and I might put a little bit of ram in it at first and upgrade that in the future since that is really easy to upgrade (I have done that before). Maybe some other things would get upgraded like the CPU but, I wouldn't replace that for a while (that would be one of the last things I would upgrade) and then I would have a good Trainz computer and maybe some extra parts for another computer someday.

P.S. I will get an anti static wristband just to be safe but me and my brother have upgraded his old HP Pavilion on carpet multiple times without frying it however that can happen.
Click to expand...

Strangely enough static doesn't always immediately cause problems. I used to work closely with a local manufacturer and we identified that their computers had a lower failure rate than others although roughly the same components were used so I went to talk to them about it and what we found was quite interesting. They'd put in a whole slew of anti static basically because they knew that warranty work killed their profits, and I talked to their quality control. They had the graphs of before and after they'd dropped in the heavy anti-static stuff, the return rate after was a quarter than before, but the really interesting bit was it brought our costs down as well on the helpdesk side etc etc.

So static if its not enough to zap the components can still shorten their life.

Cheerio John
 
Anti static devices didn't exist when I started with electronics, leastwise not in the RN, usual technique was to touch something metal that was earthed to discharge yourself, however it makes sense to use them now they are but only if they are actually connected to ground, no point in connecting the clip to a PC case or anything else metal if its not grounded! I've come across one or two people over the years making that mistake, perpetuated by bad advice frequently given on the web to disconnect from the electricity supply and connect the strap to the case, pointless as its not grounded! Also never put components on a carpet!
 
clam1952 said:
Anti static devices didn't exist when I started with electronics, leastwise not in the RN, usual technique was to touch something metal that was earthed to discharge yourself, however it makes sense to use them now they are but only if they are actually connected to ground, no point in connecting the clip to a PC case or anything else metal if its not grounded! I've come across one or two people over the years making that mistake, perpetuated by bad advice frequently given on the web to disconnect from the electricity supply and connect the strap to the case, pointless as its not grounded! Also never put components on a carpet!
Click to expand...

It depends on the carpet but in general I would agree with you, the kitchen table is normally safer. I normally just leave the PC plugged in with an anti static strap clipped to the grounded frame but this is not a recommended procedure. I think officially its a desk top antistatic mat which is grounded.

Values and big transisters never had the same problems.

Cheerio John
 
Whenever I get enough money to build a computer I am not going to build it on carpet since If I spend a couple hundred dollars on something I don't want to risk breaking it as much as when working on an old computer that only cost 2 dollars (and if I fried it my brother would kill me since it is his computer).
 
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