China to USA....

Ya know, you're probably right for the most part cascaderailroad. These bridges are not what I had in mind when I posted. My real interest is in Engine design past and present, still if I ever get back to making content. could be interesting:D
 
Hi Matt:

I seem to remember seeing a program on TV about the Bering Strait suspension bridge project. Showed designs and discussed the various potential problems involved. Didn't say it couldn't be done - just that it wouldn't be easy. I can't remember if they discussed finance one way or the other.

For our next project - - - a stairway to heaven, lol?

Ben (who still loves that song.
 
Hi Ben, Yea I do think there was a Discovery program on this and other what ifs{NOVA} to. And I didn't mean to suggest that you did. sorry if I did.:) But most of what my information is from engineering the future books and magazines I used to get. I wouldn't even guess the total cost of anyone of these projects. But it has always been suggested as a copositive between Nation.:eek:

Matt
 
My largest objection to almost all ideas like these is practicality. For one reason or another they aren't. Its not so much a matter of can we build it but rather a matter of should we build it. We live in a world of increasingly limited resources. Why tie up so much on such gigantic projects with so little potential return? Resources far better used elsewhere.

Only the RR to Alaska has sufficient potential to be more then worth the effort. The Gibraltar bridge might - I'm just not sure but then its not the same situation.

As for the others - pie in the sky by and by, lol.

Ben
 
Rail to Anchorage is justified because the airport there is a major airfreight hub. A connection between the north and south kiwi islands would be interesting too, both for road and rail traffic with the former currently depending on ferries and no rail connection at all.
 
Why would we want to connect AK to Russia/Mongolia/N Korea/China ... anyway ... What purpose would it serve ? It has no value.

Each year @ 10,000 shipping containers are lost at sea ... But who needs all those TV's, PC's and Ipods anyway ... They'll just make more :hehe:
 
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Ya got a great point there Cascade (except my TV and PC - you can keep the Ipod, lol).

Seriously - I agree who you whole heartedly. What's the point other then an interesting engineering exercise of the mind (and allowing us to yak back and forth on the subject).

As for the to AK RR - why not just parallel the Alcan highway as much as possible? Infrastructure and potential riders already along the right of way.

Ah-well - - back to the Midvalley Mine.

Ben
 
Ya gota be kidding me, Think of all that fright that wouldn't need to come to ports anymore. US and Canada rail would have so much traffic they'd need upgrade to high speed:):hehe:. In one move you'd force air and ship traffic to run faster, cheaper and more efficient. On some shipping lines now 15 to 22 percent of fright gets lost, damaged or stolen. Rail numbers are 5 to 10 percent.:)

But I wouldn't worry about it ever being done, nobody getting along now. It's all just a pipe dream politically.:o I just think the designs are cool:D I wonder what gage it would be?

Matt
 
There are additional problems with crossing the Bering Strait into Russia, besides the tunnels and bridges. In Russia use a broad gauge track and a different coupling system, both of which are incompatible with North America. Containers would have to be trans loaded onto other rolling stock to continue the journey from standard gauge rails in China to broad gauge rails in Russia then back to standard gauge for the journey to North America.

At any rate, it's fun to speculate and dream about projects such as these, and us being Trainz users, we can create a project, though not to scale, to represent the journey from North America to China by way of a long ocean bridge and tunnel crossing.

John
 
Hi everybody.
I believe the only thing needed to make this project happen is both corporate and government desire. I remember growing up in the 1950s when we were told that man would never walk on the moon in our lifetime. In the late 1960s America made it happen despite limited technology and many setbacks in the process. The reason Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin walked on the moon was for the simple reason there was an absolute will and desire that it should happen.

Closer to home in my own industry being industrial safety, when the health and safety at work act went through Parliament here in the UK in 1974, many newspapers and others in the media along with many in industry slammed it and said it would make little difference to the appalling safety record of British workplaces. In the following years accidents and industrial illness were reduced by over 80% and continue to fall on the back of that legislation even today again because of an overwhelming will and desire that it should be made to happen.

This rail line at the moment is planned between the USA and China but it could include the whole of Europe and if you look at the map it could be continued right down to southern Africa. What it would need for that plan to come to fruition is simply for enough people with vision in both government (s) and industry to say “let’s make it happen” and it will.

Bill
 
Bill, these monumental achievements that you speak of are arguably justified and serve a greater good. Going to space has allowed not just the US but all of us to learn more about space and stuff. Pushing health and safety through the legislation is for a greater good and indeed that is what you see today; much safer workplaces.

On the other hand, a road/rail connection from China (Russia) to North America has no reasonable justification or logic behind it, most of which are already outlined by others above which I won't repeat.

I can have an immense determination to build a skyscraper out of saran wrap and aluminum foil, but why should I do so when it doesn't make any sense?
 
freight_spectrum.png

unittransportcosts.png


SO therefore, rail might be effective from WA to AK, AK to Siberia, Siberia to Mongolia, but certainly not Mongolia to WA.
As for paralleling the Alcan, what is the effective grade on it? Does it have sufficient right of way? How many tunnels?
 
I threw the idea of paralleling the Alcan out there since its an established route, would help access during construction, plus be a source of (in theory) immediate revenue traffic. I have no idea as to grades, tunnels, etc. but I'd strongly suspect any route from the lower 48 to AK would have many of both. That's the Canadian Rockies gents - not the great plains, lol.

Good thing the above chart doesn't include Earth to LEO (Low Earth Orbit). The cost of that would scare the pants off of us, lol.

BTW - - - I happened to be looking at a book on plate tectonics this morning and noticed the Bering Strait is all on the North American Plate. The Pacific Plate doesn't collide with it until the Aleutian Chain. The Eurasian Plate doesn't collide with it until you get around Lake Baikal in Russia. That means it would not be a major earthquake zone - rather a low probability zone (which doesn't mean they wouldn't occur - just not often or be extremely strong). In other words crossing the Bering Strait would not be like crossing the San Andreas fault (wetter though, lol).

Ben
 
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Hi everybody.
cascaderailroad said:
The only thing that spurred the US to go to the Moon, was the fear created, when Russia first orbited the Sputnik satellite, and the posibility/threat of Russian ICBM's orbiting the Earth in space during the Cold War.
Click to expand...

Cascade, I believe your quote above very much makes the point I made in my earlier posting that if the will and desire is strong enough in people then almost anything can be made to happen. It was the will and desire of the American nation and government that the United States, Western Europe and other nations would not be militarily dominated by the evils of the Soviet Union. The foregoing pushed America wholeheartedly into the space program even though the technology to achieve that was not in existence when President Kennedy made his famous speech announcing that America would send a man to the moon.

When the programme started it was thought that only the military would benefit from the space race. However, there were many spin-offs that went on to affect everybody’s lives for the better especially the very things we are using to communicate with on this forum, computers.

nicky9499 said:
Bill, these monumental achievements that you speak of are arguably justified and serve a greater good. Going to space has allowed not just the US but all of us to learn more about space and stuff. Pushing health and safety through the legislation is for a greater good and indeed that is what you see today; much safer workplaces.

On the other hand, a road/rail connection from China (Russia) to North America has no reasonable justification or logic behind it, most of which are already outlined by others above which I won't repeat.
Click to expand...

Nicky, I believe a rail line from China via Russia to North America would be very logical and justifiable and it would create huge interest in the industrial community. The line through Russia could also connect with the rest of Europe and from that right down through the African continent. In the foregoing you would have high-speed freight being transported throughout a large section of the world on one rail system.

The above would mean that manufacturers could have their goods at the doors of their customers in days (if not hours) rather than the many weeks that it takes now. The millions involved in the cost of stockholding would be eliminated and the damage and losses incurred in the multiple handling needed in worldwide distribution could also be eliminated. Environmentally everyone will also benefit as large freight shipping movements are now known to be one of the worst polluters of the planet.

As I stated in my earlier posting all the above can happen. What it will take is the belief the will and the desire to make it happen. If that comes about all the problems will be overcome including crossing one of the world’s earthquake areas which may give spin-offs (as the space program did) resulting in a far more resilient overall infrastructure in areas affected by earthquakes.

Bill
 
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You make good points Bill, but realize that however efficient a form of transport used, the law of conservation of energy means you are still going to spend more energy (and cost) moving stuff the wrong way around the globe.
 
Can't find anything as an artist rendition of these projects, but did ture this ;)uphttp://www.dvice.com/archives/2011/08/russia_building.php
 
Railwoodman said:
Can't find anything as an artist rendition of these projects, but did ture this ;)up http://www.dvice.com/archives/2011/08/russia_building.php
Click to expand...

So I did some poking around, and found some stuff:
rr_development.gif

http://www.schillerinstitute.org/conf-iclc/2007/landbridge_conf_razbegin_map.html

and also this:
Sursa-foto___eng.rzd_.ru______12463.jpg


http://www.railwaypro.com/wp/?p=6918



So at least as far back as 2007, they had a preliminary route selected with additional connecting lines to on-route revenue sources. Labeling the Bering Strait line as "strategic" has me worried some. Indicating that it will be completed after 2030 in one pic, but in that article being done by 2022 has me believing that no one knows what they are doing. Anyhow, here's this:

Alaska_Railroad_Map.PNG


Build connecting lines to that! (the AKRR, that is)
 
Building roads in Alaska, due to rain, floods, heaving of permafrost, the mooshy bogs are extremely difficult to lay a road bed on, let alone maintain it. Likewise in Russia's Siberian/Mongolian terrain
 
Thanks for the maps (I love maps).

They show something that should have done years and years ago. Exploit Siberia. There are vast quantities of resources there that will remain untapped until a railroad can reach them.

Cascade has a very valid point about the difficulty of laying track up there. I wasn't far enough north to have to deal with permafrost but we had muskeg bogs. Basically a swampy area covered with lichen, moss, and ferns. Woe unto you if you break through the covering. You will find yourself in a hole 30 or more feet deep immersed in something wet but too thick to swim in. Unless you have a safety line attached to you so your buddies can haul you out- your dead.

Ben
 
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