Can anyone identify this?

A

AntonyVW

Active member
Im looking at an old map of a goods area near my local station. (The main goods area is to the bottom left of the image).The map is dated 1884 and I am trying to identify the item circled in red. My original thoughts were that it was cattle pens either side of the line but Im not so sure that that is what it is. The track comes in from the bottom of the image going right up t the top of the area Im trying to identify. Can anyone help? The image is at:

http://flic.kr/ps/fdgSY

The main industry in the town at this time would have been salt but not exclusively.
 
I like a challenge!

I've used similar Old Maps imagery and have followed up with research of old photos from the same era. Railways were a popular subject in the late 1800s and it's possible that there will be some images available which might identify the mystery object/s shown over (or under) the track.

There is also a strange looking structure at the end of that siding which might make identification of that bit of the map slightly easier if any photos do come to light.

Where, exactly in the UK, is that map representing?
 
Possibly North Eastern Railway style coal drops. As seen in this model photo wagons were "parked" on the raised siding and the bottom doors opened to discharge the load into the space below, from where it would be transshipped.

6340716_f520.jpg
 
This is Droitwich in Worcestershire - GWR country. Im not sure about how far the coal industry goes back here but my presumption is not that far as the coal concentration yard which took over the main goods area didnt happen until 1965. Though that does not exclude that siding being for coal. Just beyond the end of that siding would be the canal.
Im hoping to go to the local archives at the weekend and see what I can turn up photo wise, but I know from previous research there are few photos of the line in this area. I do now however there is an awful lot of info regarding the building of the line and who paid for it. Maybe I need to dig in there a little more see what turns up.
 
Here’s a map of the same area for 1970, 1:2500 scale, so not as detailed as the 1:500 in your older map, but it does show the same structure up that siding.

It’s also flagged as being in a coal yard, so the coal drop experts seem to have got it right.

I’ll see if I can source any photos and post the links if I find any.

jmaa.jpg
 
Google earth view of the same area.

It looks as if part of the original structure still exists (or did in 2007 when this satellite image was taken).
o6n1.jpg


There is a more detailed shot on the GE 1999 image, (before the foliage grew over it).
hj69.jpg






I
 
fran1 said:
Is this the right place ?

http://www.miac.org.uk/droitwich.html

http://www.miac.org.uk/saltunion.html
Click to expand...

Yes that is the right place. The most interesting area is what is not on the map I showed. Droitwich had a vast complex of factories (as seen in the articles you mention). Running through those factories - which are all devoted to the salt industry - is a complex network of industrial rails bringing the salt to the main line. A few miles up the line at Stoke works is an even more complex network in an even larger salt complex. As you can probably guess our area is built on salt with old salt mines running for a great distance. Sadly the mines in Droitwich itself are now long abandoned as they are full of brine water. If you want to see the lines in Droitwich - take a look at the full 1884 1:500 map as its the clearest image of the salt lines and why Im interested in it.
 
mezzoprezzo said:
Here’s a map of the same area for 1970, 1:2500 scale, so not as detailed as the 1:500 in your older map, but it does show the same structure up that siding.

It’s also flagged as being in a coal yard, so the coal drop experts seem to have got it right.

I’ll see if I can source any photos and post the links if I find any.
Click to expand...

The 1970 map shows how much things had changed. By then the salt industry was long gone (disappeared in 1921ish). The coal concentration yard came into being in 1965 and had a good trade initially. However by the time I came to live here in 1981 that trade had somewhat diminished. Now sadly that is gone too. I was not certain from looking at this map as to whether it was the same construction but clearly now with other eyes looking at it Im sure it is. So on the assumption that it is a coal drop - any suggestions as to a suitable asset? And it looks from the ariel photos that the ground level is dropped rather than the track being raised?
 
mezzoprezzo said:
Google earth view of the same area.

It looks as if part of the original structure still exists (or did in 2007 when this satellite image was taken).


There is a more detailed shot on the GE 1999 image, (before the foliage grew over it).
hj69.jpg






I
Click to expand...

If you look at the image above - just below and to the right of the coal drops - you can see a dark curved area on the ground. This is the old trackbed for the industrial line running into the town.
 
fran1 said:
Is this the right place ?

http://www.miac.org.uk/droitwich.html

http://www.miac.org.uk/saltunion.html
Click to expand...

Just as an aside if you go to the picture on the first article showing the class 177 dmu unit B429 - you will see on the left platform a small building. This is the only remaining building from the first station built on this site. The main building was moved from the original site at the above the station to where the main building was placed a few years later. That has now sadly gone to to be replaced with a'modern' building.
 
Magandy and others, including Ben Dorsey have made some very nice coal drops.

Cool pictures and article. I love stuff like this.

John
 
AntonyVW said:
If you look at the image above - just below and to the right of the coal drops - you can see a dark curved area on the ground. This is the old trackbed for the industrial line running into the town.
Click to expand...
I’m not totally convinced about that.

I can’t see any track represented in that exact position on any of the old maps sourced so far. Check out the one in the section below taken from the 1903 Pre-WWII 1:2500 map. I reckon the old trackbed "running into the town" is slightly to the south of the dark area, where the trees now are at the bottom of the GE image.

It’s possible that there was an additional siding on that dark curved area that was laid and removed in between surveys, and never got mapped. Look at the dotted line marked FP* (footpath). That is shown alongside the “dark curved area”, which is clearly north of the track into town.


* BTW, this link is quite helpful for some of the more obscure markings on old maps.


7ckv.jpg
 
mezzoprezzo said:
I’m not totally convinced about that.

I can’t see any track represented in that exact position on any of the old maps sourced so far. Check out the one in the section below taken from the 1903 Pre-WWII 1:2500 map. I reckon the old trackbed "running into the town" is slightly to the south of the dark area, where the trees now are at the bottom of the GE image.

It’s possible that there was an additional siding on that dark curved area that was laid and removed in between surveys, and never got mapped. Look at the dotted line marked FP* (footpath). That is shown alongside the “dark curved area”, which is clearly north of the track into town.


* BTW, this link is quite helpful for some of the more obscure markings on old maps.


7ckv.jpg
Click to expand...

It certainly looks that way. I guess I need a closer look at that image. And just to add that this is still not complete - the line going off to the east (right of map) also has another area - just off this map - with salt workings coming off it running along side the canal. Also the line heading from the right to the top of the picture originally formed a triangle so that trains from Kidderminster could go directly to Bromsgrove. I believe though that that line only lasted a few years before it was taken up.
The one thing I dont have in all this - and I cant seem to find on the internet - is the gradients for the lines going through this area. I suspect they are in a book somewhere as I know there are a series of books on this subject, but limited funds means at present I cant go get one. The dem I have for the area is reasonable but not as good as those available to he USA etc so although I am familiar with the line - a lot of the gradients Im putting n are pure guess work. Having said that Im slowly working on the station area but Im toying with putting in the first station that was there rather than the one before the current one.
 
Found this reference. Not bothered to link as that's the only reference to Droitwich. May not even be the same yard the reference to hoppers makes me think it is.

Underwood's at Droitwich Spa was still receiving wagon-load coal in '81. Theirs came in 21T vac fitted hoppers (brown) to suit their unloading facility. No revenue earning wood bodied wagons by then, and very few unfitted. A country mile or two from your location, however.
Click to expand...

So Googling Underwoods found this http://www.miac.org.uk/ncbdroitwich.html

Hmm, This is interesting as my late father was the NCB Transport manager for that Area in the 60's that's both Road and Rail.
pity he's no longer around to ask.

Edit:

Due to the close proximity of the canal, wonder if that may have any connection?
 
Last edited:
Ive seen the loco in those pictures. It was still in service when I came here - blue in colour. Apparently when it was sold off it went into mothballs for preservation. Its a 4wDM Ruston and Hornsby. About the closest Ive been able to find of its kind on the DLS is the 48DS by cmburgess. The other image on there shows the coal piled on what was the original platform for the goods yard, and the building on the right is what is now a fairly substantial chemical works. Which in itself was built on the site of the former workhouse.
Mentioning the workhouse - I have a basic mesh made up for it but as yet it lacks all the details. Time I went back to finishing it I think.
 
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