Campaign to retain full DLS for TRS2004/06

[pommie]

David
I assume that you're referring to me (forgive me if I'm wrong). I never said anything about anybody not having any rights. In my view, the elitism appears to be on the other side. My communication skills must be as poor as my creation skills. I also haven't withdrawn any support. According to Auran and the 2010 supporters out there, support is the act of purchasing new versions which is exactly what I've done. So where have I withdrawn my support? I'm only thinking about not creating for the DLS anymore since I'm losing the incentive to do so and that's okay. I've got lots of other things that I can do with my time. Trains and Trainz is not my life. It's just a hobby and I've changed hobbies many times in my life.

Mike

@leefer :wave:
Mike I was not referring to any particular person, or even any direct statements, just the general tone of the thread has gone downhill, if I had a problem with what an individual said I would quote them so as to make it clear to whom I was referring.

Alls good mate

Cheers David

 

[American_Connections]

Attention: Auran Staff

What does this mean to you?


"Download Station Access


The below tickets show what content you have access to download; this access is determined by the product serial numbers you have registered.

Trainz Railroad Simulator 2004
Download Station Access Ticket"

Seems we already have access granted by your words. Why is this now to be taken back?

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

I think the main point is that a quarter of the community still uses 04 and 06 and have no plans to upgrade, maybe more.

Sure its great to have the newest versions, but some of us simply cannot do that.

Where i come from, a quarter is still a minority.

IKB.

 

[ckthomson]

I've already decided that 2 separate DLS servers would be the best route - that way we could retain full service for those who want to stay with the old versions, and those who want to move forward. The improvements that older versions require will never come (where was SP2 for 2006?), so freeze the DLS development for those versions and move the 2.9+ content to it's own server.

In regards to uploads, please keep in mind that TRS2004/TRS2006 covers 7 versions alone (version numbers in configs that is): 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5, 2.6

Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the ways that this could be worked around would be to require users to patch up to a specific build? AFAIK, it was Sp4 for 2004 and Sp1 for 2006. Personally, I can't see any reason for not patching up to the latest SP anyways, but I'm not really a route builder/content creator.

As there are editions of TRS2004 and TRS2006 that did not receive patches (for what ever reasons), we would need to provide upload support for all of these versions. This actually means that we need to cover 7 different config.txt variations alone (since each build can add and remove tags depending on updates that may be made).

Once again, this could be solved by only allowing access to fully patched versions. If Auran didn't supply certain publishers with patches, that's their fault, not ours.

Plus the following builds, which will be supported after September: 2.7, 2.8, 2.9, 3.0, 3.1. Thats 12 builds so far, each with it's own changes to available tags for the config.txt files, not including the multiple different 'kinds' of assets. This does make the automatic checks for the uploads system very clunky, and much more than it should be.

How is this so difficult to deal with? Asset checking should already be don against a list of valid tags for each build number. As the earlier builds, like I said above, aren't going to recieve any more service packs, it would make sense to assume that the available tags for each of those builds could be considered set in stone.

----

I don't like the idea of having to mess about with FTP links or using the DLS web-page to get every missing dependency, but since I use 2006 the most I have become used to hitting the Web-DLS when CMP fails to find a dependency that is known to be on the DLS.

 

[amigacooke]

Here's a really radical idea. How about Auran cease support for the DLS altogether? That way everyone gets the same level of DLS support and Trainz gets the same level of automatic content support as MSTS and RailWorks.

Auran save a fortune on costs and we all get a level playing field.

 

[tmz06003]

Thanks for that clear explaination Zec.

I've been wondering about how DLS links to external sites will be handled, as you would have no control over the quality of an asset once a download link was established to that external site?

 

[Padster]

While it appears at first glance that Auran is being unfair to us 2004 holdouts, the reality is somewhat different. The DLS only has so much bandwidth to play with, so it is inevitable that there will at some stage be a spring clean of the older versions to make room for newer ones.

During the past two years I have forsaken TRS2004 for Rail Simulator. It is a great program, but it is nowhere near as versatile as Trainz, and its selection of downloads is frankly pitiful compared to the DLS, and even then you have to pay or wait in a very long line. Perhaps on these forums people have had too much of a good thing, because when Railworks came along, the site I downloaded my RS stuff from suddenly pulled the plug on RS downloads after two weeks! With the DLS, we have until September! Plenty of time to fill our boots with DLS goodies and get them on disks.

We also have to realise that Auran isn't a charity, and naturally it will want to persuade us, its core customers, to buy its latest products. Withdrawing access to the DLS to older versions is one way of doing this. You really have a great thing going on here, its just that you fail to see it. The support is far better than anything I have had with RS, the forum is very much alive and the program is easy to work with. I am sure the Aussies will be reaching for their sickbags at all this praise coming from a Pom, but it's true.

Best wishes,
Padster

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

A 2004 user that sees the bigger picture, nice one Padster.

Praise the lord and pass the ammunition.

IKB.

 

[sparky15]

Thanks for that clear explanation Zec.

Just a thought - would it be possible to permit older versions to upload content, but for them to be checked against the oldest supported version requirements, with a clear caveat that performance in older versions is not guaranteed. It would require uploaders to be careful about using tags too new for the build version, but it would not be any worse than the situation with 3/4 of the DLS currently, and it would keep users of older versions buying FCTs and not prevent talented creators migrating to 3rd party sites.

Paul

This sums the situation up well, a point I was trying to make before this turned into a mine is better thread. Error free content benefits everyone, build number is unimportant. Keeping as much content as possible going to the DLS and checked ensures compatibility. The new user they are trying to attract has a better experience and more likely to return for the next version, something I'm sure any company is interested in.

I have upgraded but have found this version doesn't suit my needs at this time. I'll continue to use what suits me, with or without DLS access, until something comes along that does. When I do buy another version I would like to see as much as possible on the DLS and error free, not spread everywhere with compatibility issues.

Dave.....

 

[martinvk]

... I have forsaken TRS2004 for Rail Simulator. It is a great program, but it is nowhere near as versatile as Trainz, ...

Best wishes,
Padster

Hi Padster, I don't quite get the drift of your message. No one needs to justify their decision to use one sim or the other but your examples don't make sense to me: not as versatile as Trainz, fewer downloads that you have to pay for and/or wait a long time to get, sudden cut-off of downloads, etc. I visit the RW forums on an irregular basis and it would appear that its great strength is the look, nice for screen-shots but once you try to do something or build your world, good luck. Not looking for a debate on the merits of either sim, just curious.

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

Missed the bit about Padster saying he had moved to using RailFail.

RailFail & its update RailFail 2, have the prototypical functionality of a dead turkey.

I have both and was and still am, totally disappointed with both.

The pre-release hype, far out weighed the actual substance.

IKB.

 

[Padster]

Hello Martin.

What I was trying to say is that I think Auran are being very even handed with those of us who are still using the older versions of Trainz. I merely used RS as a comparison because I felt frozen out as an RS user when Railworks came along. There was an undue haste to drop RS downloads on the site I got my downloads from, with just two weeks notice given. Here, we have been given plenty of notice, and I would just like people to recognise that, because it is inevitable that downloads for older versions will have to go to make way for newer releases. If Auran didn't do that, the DLS would eventually grind to a halt.

Best wishes,
Padster

 

[Barry]

Who is going to make all the new content?
It requires more time, more skills, complex configurations.
Are all those that are posting going to make the new content?
Yes I make content but no longer for Trainz.

B

 

[stovepipe]

It's a fair point, but conversely who is going to continue to download content made the old way, when standards have moved on everywhere else?

regards
Charles

 

[martinvk]

Who is going to make all the new content?
It requires more time, more skills, complex configurations.
Are all those that are posting going to make the new content?
Yes I make content but no longer for Trainz.

B

Puts up his hand. :wave:

Let's kill the myth that's it's oh so hard to make content for TS2010. The basic meshes are the same. There are some new texture methods but hardly revolutionary. The config files are more complex for sure but nothing that a bit of learning can't fix. As a content creator, I'm always learning new techniques and ways of making things. Speaking for myself only, I think all of my new and upgraded TS2010 objects look better than the older versions, making any extra effort worth it. :hehe:

 

[obo]

Apologies if it is buried somewhere earlier in this thread (I tried searching) but could somebody post the link to the official announcement? It doesn't seem to be in the "Auran Announcements" section of this forum.

Thanks,

Rob.

 

[BLACKWATCH]

Here ya go Rob ........................
http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php5/Trainz_Life-Cycle_Policy

 

[American_Connections]

The point!

I think many of you are missing the point that some creators want to keep making things for 2004 and up users. If it is the same way it was, and we make them for 2010, nothing below that will be able to use them.

 

[obo]

Thanks Blackwatch.

It would be nice if they posted it in a more obvious location.

Q: Will the Download Station continue to host content for Trainz editions beyond their end-of-support date?

A: We will not immediately remove older content from the Download Station, as newer editions of Trainz can still use this content.

If they just said "yes" here it would make me feel a lot better. They should be able to keep the old stuff around indefinitely since storage keeps getting cheaper. I doubt it even takes up all that much space by the standards of 2010.

Regards,

Rob.

 

[martinvk]

... They should be able to keep the old stuff around indefinitely since storage keeps getting cheaper. I doubt it even takes up all that much space by the standards of 2010.

Regards,

Rob.

Whatever the merits or pros and cons of the discussion, I wish people would stop putting up strawmen. No one but Auran knows the $ cost or space required to maintain old stuff. Zec has already said that there is a real programming cost involved. If you don't want to believe him or think that it is irrelevant, that's your prerogative.