Campaign to retain full DLS for TRS2004/06

[mezzoprezzo]

I'm starting this thread in the, possibly, not too forlorn hope that the September changes might just be amended.

Much has been posted elsewhere in the forum, but there appears to be no single thread where people can lend support in an attempt to change a decision which has the capability of causing users and suppliers to loose out in a really big way.

The following is taken from my posting in the General Trains sticky put up by Zec Murphy, "For those experiencing issues with downloading with a FCT after the server transfer". Peter1946 suggested that a new thread be started. Please feel free to support this. You don't have to say much.

_______________________________________________________________

Sorry to see that Auran will be losing another possible customer. I'll be another, potentially.

They really do seem to be missing an opportunity here. The DLS will be sorted out I'm sure - I remember grumbling about this when there was a similar problem after last Christmas/New Year. They fixed it and it flew.

But, preventing potential customers, who want to stay with TRS2004/06 (and 09 eventually), who are prepared to pay (yes I'll say that again in case they've missed it, pay), by buying a FCT or purchasing a (to remain unused) later version is beyond me.

I'm sticking with it for now because, ever the optimist, I'm hopeful that TRS2004 stuff may be allowed to be uploaded and available to paying 04/06 users after September. But it will require a slight shift on the part of Auran. That simple change in position would help to placate and encourage those who want to create and upload their assets - remember the creators are doing it their own time and providing it to us for free!

I make no apology for banging on about this. I'm just hopeful that a bit of peaceful protesting might just help. It will be too late after September.

Meanwhile I'm finding plenty of other sources for Kuid's. There's a stack of stuff out there, but the DLS is easier and is something I'd be prepared to pay for. But not if I cannot have new TRS2004 downloads. It's the new stuff that provides the inspiration and is the antidote to stagnation. Why cut it off?

With regard to product support, all of mine has come from the community, not Auran. TRS2004 support doesn't need paid staff.

The whole sorry business has divided the community, which when I joined seemed united and supportive, (and generally, it still is).

However, to me it really does feel, sometimes, that Auran are killing this hobby!

Casper

 

[gremlin1812]

G'Day Casper, you have got my vote mate, been retrenched since June 2009 and cannot afford an all singing all dancing PC for later versions.
Regards
Barrie

Note: - A friend loaded his TRS09 onto my pc and it ran like a slide show (yes sliders down, tried everything), it HAS been removed and was only to test my PC with it.

 

[BLACKWATCH]

I support your Idea, I've bought a few FCT's & if one is needed to be able to download I would buy one.
I don't create, but TRS2004 runs sweet on this machine, I was looking at buying TS2010 because with the smaller grid size, detail in routes is better, but I am not willing to spend more cash upgrading my machine just to satisfy one program & nobody seems willing to state that as it is, I will be able to run TS2010 without a slideshow effect.

 

[al_sa]

I completely agree with you, you couldn't said it better. But to do this Auran would surely request even more resources. And where would they take them from? (Rhetorical question) Us users. In what form? i don't know but I doubt it will be any good.

 

[sparky15]

Ironic isn't it? Third party sites will grow. RS/RW are basically non players. MSTS is what it is. Who will be Auran's or Neverwhatever's biggest competition?

Themselves.

Dave.....

 

[mezzoprezzo]

I completely agree with you, you couldn't said it better. But to do this Auran would surely request even more resources. And where would they take them from? (Rhetorical question) Us users. In what form? i don't know but I doubt it will be any good.

Hi al.sa

Resources could be the same as are provided now. When DLS is working, it seems to work well, for all versions of the sim.

By keeping the loyalty of existing users of the earlier TRS sims, Auran could continue to take their regular FCT income. I get the feeling that they will be losing a lot of those users, particularly when those users realise they will not get new downloads, no matter how much they pay.

In addition, the income generated by people buying an FCT for the first time, and I would be one of them, would be not inconsiderable. But I firmly refuse
to pay for a package which will only allow access to old assets.

I consider myself fortunate to have found Trainz, and a community willing to share their creations and vast knowledge. I was amazed that all this stuff was free - so I'm quite willing to pay. But I feel Auran should meet the customer half way, and allow new items to be available to those willing to part with their cash.

Here's hoping!

Cheers
Casper

 

[Stationbeem]

You have my vote Casper.

It's like what gremlin1812 has said. A lot of people cannot afford to upgrade their PC to run TS2010. Where as me i am capable of running TS2010 but cannot afford the game.
Why cant Auran compromise by say having a separate Download Station for those of us with TRS2006 and lower.
They are asking creators to carry on making content in TRS2004 but to make it work in TS2010. If that is the case why not let us still use new content on a separate Download Station. Even i would not mind paying more for an FCT just to offset the cost of a separate Download Station.

 

[narrowgauge]

Initially I intended writing and agreeing with this thread but I've had second thoughts. Why should Auran do this to support a version that is well out of date, why are people averse to upgrading to TS2010.

Is it cost? Between now and September is ample time to save to buy the new version. If you are happy to use existing content, you will have to buy an FCT which cost is part way to buying 2010.

Creating? There are over 117,000 items on the DLS, nearly all accessible with an FCT. Why MUST you have more?

If you want to create, then create for TS2010. That move will have to come sometime, as new users join they will be making for TS2010, while natural attrition will reduce creators for TRS2004.

I agree with Auran, it is a logical move, tell me why I'm wrong.

Peter

 

[Forest_Runner]

I can understand the principle and the sentiment... BUT (yeah there's always a "but")...

Where does it state anywhere about FCT covering new downloads? As far as I'm aware the FCT covers download speed and efficiency. Anyone, please feel free to correct me otherwise.

There is no obligation/agreement/contract from Auran/N3vrfail to constantly expand the quantity of DLS items. If no content was to be added (for any Trainz/TRS version) from this day on, the FCT is good for the 100K+ items currently on the DLS.

By the way, I'm currently a TRS2006 holdout - My TS2010 is close to unworkable as the trees kill my frame rates and look horrid to boot. I'm however offering an unbiased, common sense and realistic view of things.

 

[Ronayne]

Casper, you have my vote.

I have TRS2009 and 10, but my laptop isn't powerful enough to run them. I've always used TRS2006, and thats what I hope to continue using.

Chris, :wave:

 

[dregeye]

How Much Money ?

Greetings,
I had been away from Trainz for a few years and recently returned.

I feel that the idea of repeatedly migrating to a new "version" that only allows partial previous content compatibility is closer to a new "game" than a new "version"

It's almost analogous to getting started in HO scale and then being told that N or O is the next progression . . . "we don't support that version anymore"

I have no doubt that the latest "version" is a wonderful game and all who aquire it will find great enjoyment. Why must these other "games" have any effect at all on my enjoyment of TRS2004?

Auran is (afaik) a for-profit corporation. period They are not Trainz enthusiasts. I think the only way to convince them to NOT ALTER the Download Station is to OFFER THEM MONEY. Enough that they will make $ off the download station, regardless of game sales. How much?
________

AURAN? Are you listening? reading? Hey, Give us an amount we need to give you to make it worth your while. Believe me, You (Auran) will receive goodwill in vast purportions beyond any money . . .
________

My thanks to all content creators. Your generosity is unsurpassed.

Greg

 

[sparky15]

Initially I intended writing and agreeing with this thread but I've had second thoughts. Why should Auran do this to support a version that is well out of date, why are people averse to upgrading to TS2010.

Is it cost? Between now and September is ample time to save to buy the new version. If you are happy to use existing content, you will have to buy an FCT which cost is part way to buying 2010.

Creating? There are over 117,000 items on the DLS, nearly all accessible with an FCT. Why MUST you have more?

If you want to create, then create for TS2010. That move will have to come sometime, as new users join they will be making for TS2010, while natural attrition will reduce creators for TRS2004.

I agree with Auran, it is a logical move, tell me why I'm wrong.

Peter

Peter,
Not everyone cares for the new versions. Sorry but I find the new content a joke. Pure and simple. I have 09 and really tried to like it but feel content wise they took a step backwards in appearance. I anted up and recently put money into their pockets, why deny use of the version I prefer? Just as you can't see using older versions some feel the same about 09/10.

Upping the error checking on content being uploaded benefits everyone, the build number shouldn't matter. That has been droned on and on endlessly in these debates. I don't like 09 so build a route in 04/06. It still has use for everyone doesn't it? If I use error free content from the DLS to build it what impact is that for a 09/10 user? None.

If I build that route and place it on a third party site, using content from that same site, what guarantee will you have that content will not show errors in 09/10? Additionally, you loose the use of CM to get that content and get to search all over for it plus having to fix errors on top of that. Kind of defeats the intent. How often do you hear people complain all content isn't on the DLS?

I don't understand all this animosity towards people who don't care for 09/10. I won't be using them anytime soon and don't begrudge anyone who does, why does anyone care what anyone's choice of version is. There is a possibility though of content being strewn all over the place and unusable in 09/10. You would think 09/10 users would have a vested interest in everything going to the DLS, if just for the error checking alone. Denying an 04/06 user access will pretty much insure that content will go somewhere else.

As far as cost, the DLS has to be a lot cheaper to maintain than a staff of content creators. Weigh the cost of maintaining the DLS with, say, Speedtree or paying someone to build several routes and the content to go along with it for the next release.

I agree eventually 04/06 users will attrition out. Why not let it happen here instead of somewhere else. Will I eventually move up? Sure, when a new version offers something I feel is worth upgrading to. Content pitty-patt to milk out Jet isn't going to do it. A hardware upgrade to run on tracks that still can't form a proper turnout past toyish Speedtrees that hog resources so bad the 5m grids are useless sure won't either.

People aren't going to upgrade until they feel something is worth upgrading to.

Dave......

 

[martinvk]

I'm with Narrowgauge on this one. I've moved firmly into the TS2010 camp. I now only create for it, and make my routes in it. Having used and built objects for both TRS2004 and TS2010, I can say that there is no going back. There are too many advantages and features that I would have to give up if I was to now try to use TRS2004 again. And yet, even I still use some of my older objects from TRS2004 that I've not updated or rebuilt yet with few issues, even in native mode.

On that basis, I think that Auran should consider leaving access to download existing older objects from the DLS for anyone that has the right to do so. I can understand and agree with them to eventually not allow new uploads for the older unsupported versions. If the old versions keep getting new objects, it effectively discourages people from getting the newer versions They need to encourage people to upgrade. It is a business, not a charity they are running.

 

[howard334]

Greetings,
I had been away from Trainz for a few years and recently returned.

I feel that the idea of repeatedly migrating to a new "version" that only allows partial previous content compatibility is closer to a new "game" than a new "version"

It's almost analogous to getting started in HO scale and then being told that N or O is the next progression . . . "we don't support that version anymore"

I have no doubt that the latest "version" is a wonderful game and all who aquire it will find great enjoyment. Why must these other "games" have any effect at all on my enjoyment of TRS2004?

Auran is (afaik) a for-profit corporation. period They are not Trainz enthusiasts. I think the only way to convince them to NOT ALTER the Download Station is to OFFER THEM MONEY. Enough that they will make $ off the download station, regardless of game sales. How much?
________

AURAN? Are you listening? reading? Hey, Give us an amount we need to give you to make it worth your while. Believe me, You (Auran) will receive goodwill in vast purportions beyond any money . . .
________

My thanks to all content creators. Your generosity is unsurpassed.

Greg

rant on {
dregeye, exactly as I feel. All the hemming and hawing won't change a thing due to the fact that business is business, and Auran has a business model in mind that will (they feel) keep them afloat and competitive and they are not about to let anyone outside their company in on it for if they did, they forfeit that "edge" that will keep them abreast of the front runners of what ever market that they target - Trainz is NOT the only product they sell - Jet (which is the graphics engine that the trainz program runs in) is their money maker - not Trainz - get back to reality people. Business is business - work around it, build upon it, or get off it - but man, let them alone.

} rant off

 

[narrowgauge]

It has been suggested in this thread that perhaps the offer of money would make Auran relent. How about this.

Make the continuation of TRS2004/6/TC upload ability contingent on the ownership and registration of TS2010.

It does have an advantage for both sides. The creator can check that his new work will pass TS2010 inspection before uploading it as a TRS2004 item, while Auran get the benefit of knowing that everything they get new has passed inspection before they get it(and they get some money as a sweetener).

Those who can't afford TS2010 can still downloads provided they have a valid FCT.

It seems that this would make both sides happy.

Peter

 

[Dinorius_Redundicus]

Casper

You definitely have my vote.

If the price of being able to continue uploading assets for TRS2004 is an FCT and/or proof of purchase of TS2010, then I'd be more than willing to pay it.

And I don't mind if the error checks were made tighter so 'old' assets don't cause troubles for new versions of Trainz. In fact, I think that would be good.

If '04/'06 are to die off, let it be a natural death, not an execution.

~ Deane

 

[meridious]

The subject of allowing content or not does not concern me. I have other resources to host content. What does concern me is how many think that by hosting content made for 04/06 is actually supporting those versions. Take for example : TPR as a group, does not and will never support 06 but yet we host content for it. Or, we could look at gmax. Turbosquid hosts it but as a business, they don't support it. So how exactly does hosting something mean that you are giving support for it ? I don't like what is being done in September but I accept it. Auran is a business and in order for Trainz to keep going, they must do some drastic things from time to time. Whether I agree with them or not, I respect them for doing so.

I respect everyones decision to move on. We at TPR have done the same. We are now building routes in 09. We have one route for 04 that has some issues that we are trying to work out so that it will work in 09. Although our new routes will be done in 09, they will still have alot of content from earlier versions in them.

As for creating content exclusively for 09 or above.....unless I use a feature from one of those versions, I really don't see a need to do it for just that version. That is my choice and I'm sure many will agree with me and many will criticize me. Who knows, maybe 5 years down the line, I may be doing stuff only for 09 when we could be at version 2015.

 

[leeferr]

You've got my vote, but I doubt that anyone is going to listen. I've got 2009 and 2010, but they both run like molasses on my machine. TRS2004 runs just fine and that is the version that I will continue to use. I plan to continue buying new versions and FCT's, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to use the new versions. The only thing that I use them for is to test my content to make sure that they are fault free.

To paraphrase General George Meade when he assumed command of the Army of the Potomac in late June 1863, TRS2004 has been tried and condemned. All that is left now is to be led to the execution.

Mike

 

[cascaderailroad]

I vote definately YES. And I would buy a lifetime FCT. I might even buy TS2011, if there are alot more improvements in a newer trainzbuild.

TRS2006 should have been improved and upgraded instead...And as for making a new improved, entirly new, 09/10 program, this appears as a moneymaking plan. There are some great improvements over TRS2006 though. But the railjointsounds & trainsounds are still lame, there are too few realistic looking animated switch points, and TS2010 still doesn't look as good as the competion, and the (discontinued) MSTS2 demo video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D44UKxu86so Convention
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8Mi4m6ImI8 This broke my heart !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ90XTSkdPI&feature=related RailSim

 

[bpk_2007]

TRS2006

You have my vote Casper!

Still uses TRS2006 a lot and i guess a lot of other people does to. I would hate to see DLS being shut down for TRS2006 and TRS2004.

Kind regards
Bo