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If trucks are so wonderful why aren't the private trucking companies building the interstates? If airlines are so great why do we need public money to build the airports. Can't that be done by the airlines themselves?Maybe we ( Californians ) are missing something in this conversation. Why should our taxes pay for this? If it is such a woderful thing, private companys will make it happen.
Being a Californian I can tell you that it did pass on the election day, but as much as I like trains I do not like this idea at all. Although it will cut traveling costs, traveling time, and pollution, you have to ask: where does the money come from? The answer is the taxpayers and in the state with the worst economy people are already paying high taxes, losing there homes, and not being able to buy the neccesites. I have never taken intrest into the elections until this year.
Matt
WE can't afford things like this. More importantly we don't NEED things like this. Greenies will be the death of us, not polution, in my not so hunble opinion. How the BLEEP did the human race survive with hundreds of thousands coal and oil burning steam locomotives running around? Just fine, thank you.
/rant mode off
WE can't afford things like this. More importantly we don't NEED things like this. Greenies will be the death of us, not polution, in my not so hunble opinion. How the BLEEP did the human race survive with hundreds of thousands coal and oil burning steam locomotives running around? Just fine, thank you.
/rant mode off
Yes, we can afford highway upgrades, new runways and road casualties. We always have, though there was not much use for runways prior to 1903.
As for smog, we have defeated that monster, at least here in the Bay Area. I have lived here for 64 years and I know what smog was. I have not seen it in many years. Yes, I know there are those that still try to scare us with the smog monster because a scared populace can more easily be maniulated, like voting for publically financing high speed rail service.
Then there is the BIG scary mythical beast called man made global warming. Just look what that "big lie" has done to many of you. You might want to ask yourselves what those behind the big lie are trying to accomplish and why they must lie to get their way. Climate change happens. Get used to it.
Back to high speed rail. When was the last time you have been stuck in a nose to tail commute on I-5 between the Central Valley and the Grape Vine? It does not happen. So we do not need this unafordable boondoggle to relieve " Commute " traffic. Come on folks. THINK!
What are we going to power these trains with? Coal? Or are we finally going to get some new nuclear power plants around here? We are already having rolling blackouts as it is. Will the trains be shut down for hours at a time in 110 degree heat? Come on. THINK!!
Some would have you believe we are about to run out of oil. Yet another big lie. We have plenty for at least another 50 years, perhaps even a hundred plus. Before we start running out, our cars, trucks and busses will be running on fuel cells. In the mean time we must build new refineries and nuclear power plants.
Oh yes, and DRILL HERE, DRILL NOW!!
Hmmm. Somehow I've never bought the 'Global Warming is a Myth' conspiracy theory. It's taken along time, against much opposition from vested interests to establish what the cast majority of climate scientists now agree on. I find it difficult to believe that the vast weight of scientific evidence is somehow wrong, or that it is some kind of conspiracy. If it is a conspiracy, then who's behind it? All of the money is in oil, autos, air travel, road construction, and these people have a huge amount of influence in government the world over, not least in Washington. It's in their interest to cast doubt on global warming. On the other hand, taking moves to alleviate climate change is awkward for politicians, and has little immediate attraction to established big business (not that there wont be opportunities for making money).
And if you can afford the highways and airports, then why not build the train if it's nearer half the price? Unless you believe that the world should be car-shaped, better public transport is needed to keep our cities from becoming half paved unmanageable sprawls in which you are a second class citizen if you don't drive. Admittedly cities like LA have gone so far down that road already that it takes a long time, and a scary amount of investment to do anything about it, but the transport networks in Europe's large cities weren't built in a day, and can still be improved...
As for power, the amount needed to run a network like this is a drop in the ocean compared with California's total energy consumption, and California is ideal territory for solar technology. It's also easier to contemplate CO2 sequestration and other exhaust scrubbing measures at a handful of power plants instead of on a million tailpipes. Trains run at high speeds in comparable temperatures in other parts of the world - it should work fine in California too.
If this really was untried technology, or worse one that was a proven money pit, I'd be concerned, but really it's well established in much of the world. I just can't see why it wouldn't work in California.
The oil may last for another 50-100 years, but the price will be astronomical well before that. Peak oil is not the end, just the beginning of a spiral of increased production costs in ever more marginal oilfields. So long as we're prepared to pay ever more at the pump, someone will squeeze the last few drops from the earth...
Paul
Yes, we can afford highway upgrades, new runways and road casualties. We always have, though there was not much use for runways prior to 1903.
As for smog, we have defeated that monster, at least here in the Bay Area. I have lived here for 64 years and I know what smog was. I have not seen it in many years. Yes, I know there are those that still try to scare us with the smog monster because a scared populace can more easily be maniulated, like voting for publically financing high speed rail service.
Then there is the BIG scary mythical beast called man made global warming. Just look what that "big lie" has done to many of you. You might want to ask yourselves what those behind the big lie are trying to accomplish and why they must lie to get their way. Climate change happens. Get used to it.
Back to high speed rail. When was the last time you have been stuck in a nose to tail commute on I-5 between the Central Valley and the Grape Vine? It does not happen. So we do not need this unafordable boondoggle to relieve " Commute " traffic. Come on folks. THINK!
What are we going to power these trains with? Coal? Or are we finally going to get some new nuclear power plants around here? We are already having rolling blackouts as it is. Will the trains be shut down for hours at a time in 110 degree heat? Come on. THINK!!
Some would have you believe we are about to run out of oil. Yet another big lie. We have plenty for at least another 50 years, perhaps even a hundred plus. Before we start running out, our cars, trucks and busses will be running on fuel cells. In the mean time we must build new refineries and nuclear power plants.
Oh yes, and DRILL HERE, DRILL NOW!!
Hmmm. Somehow I've never bought the 'Global Warming is a Myth' conspiracy theory. It's taken along time, against much opposition from vested interests to establish what the cast majority of climate scientists now agree on. I find it difficult to believe that the vast weight of scientific evidence is somehow wrong, or that it is some kind of conspiracy. If it is a conspiracy, then who's behind it? All of the money is in oil, autos, air travel, road construction, and these people have a huge amount of influence in government the world over, not least in Washington. It's in their interest to cast doubt on global warming. On the other hand, taking moves to alleviate climate change is awkward for politicians, and has little immediate attraction to established big business (not that there wont be opportunities for making money).
And if you can afford the highways and airports, then why not build the train if it's nearer half the price? Unless you believe that the world should be car-shaped, better public transport is needed to keep our cities from becoming half paved unmanageable sprawls in which you are a second class citizen if you don't drive. Admittedly cities like LA have gone so far down that road already that it takes a long time, and a scary amount of investment to do anything about it, but the transport networks in Europe's large cities weren't built in a day, and can still be improved...
As for power, the amount needed to run a network like this is a drop in the ocean compared with California's total energy consumption, and California is ideal territory for solar technology. It's also easier to contemplate CO2 sequestration and other exhaust scrubbing measures at a handful of power plants instead of on a million tailpipes. Trains run at high speeds in comparable temperatures in other parts of the world - it should work fine in California too.
If this really was untried technology, or worse one that was a proven money pit, I'd be concerned, but really it's well established in much of the world. I just can't see why it wouldn't work in California.
The oil may last for another 50-100 years, but the price will be astronomical well before that. Peak oil is not the end, just the beginning of a spiral of increased production costs in ever more marginal oilfields. So long as we're prepared to pay ever more at the pump, someone will squeeze the last few drops from the earth...
Paul
As for smog, we have defeated that monster, at least here in the Bay Area. I have lived here for 64 years and I know what smog was. I have not seen it in many years. Yes, I know there are those that still try to scare us with the smog monster because a scared populace can more easily be maniulated, like voting for publically financing high speed rail service.
Then there is the BIG scary mythical beast called man made global warming. Just look what that "big lie" has done to many of you. You might want to ask yourselves what those behind the big lie are trying to accomplish and why they must lie to get their way. Climate change happens. Get used to it.
Some would have you believe we are about to run out of oil. Yet another big lie. We have plenty for at least another 50 years, perhaps even a hundred plus. Before we start running out, our cars, trucks and busses will be running on fuel cells. In the mean time we must build new refineries and nuclear power plants.
Oh yes, and DRILL HERE, DRILL NOW!!
Tokkyu40 said:We can't say that high speed rail will succeed in America, but since it hasn't been tried, we also can't say that it will fail.