Building layouts
- Thread starter catch22
- Start date
Hello All,
Not sure if this is covered but im interested in building layouts and im wondering how the pros on this site go about it ie where do they start on the board do you draw it first etc, tracks laying terrian first
many thanks in advance
catch22
Hi Catch22.......You will find more approaches to this than you could possibly imagine, and you will find that there is no perfect way to do it. It will probably have to be your own style that you will be most comfortable.
An option I used early on was to use the UMAKE or UM modules on the Download Station. Gave me some excellant ideas.
You can always merge existing routes, or add / subtract from them. This will at least enable you to develop some ideas.
Some folks use existing plans from model railroading sites. TRAINPLAYER even has the 101 TRACK PLAN series. Though small, they have fabulous ideas to get started. Next thing you know, you will be creating your own 1000+ board monster.:hehe:
Some folks use tools such as GOOGLE EARTH to try duplicating an existing area.
To answer your question though, I personally like to start with the track, with a general idea in mind. For example, I will start with FORESTRY1 if I plan on something around WOOD / LUMBER. I will take this interactive industry, and then figure out where I want to locate the LUMBER MILL, the PULP MILL, the SAW-MILL, etc. I want to allow for mountains, rivers, towns, etc. I leave the fine-tuning for last. This might include TEXTURING, roads, bridges, etc.
Remember it will be your layout, and nobody has to see it. It does not necessarily have to be proto-typical. Heck, I use so many pipe splines I would have our members laughing !!:hehe: To me, it is all about having fun. Good luck......:wave:
Just wanted to add that the Engineers Handbook has a flow chart for a few industries, FORESTRY, COAL MINE, and OIL FIELDS. These are informative for input / output flow. another flow-chart I located is WWW.PCRAILWAYS.COM. It is nice to have an idea of what industry inputs and outputs to another, so that you can include those industries on your layout. Unfortunately, all industries are not interactive, but it does not bother me. Take good care.........
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Manjoe has some great advice here. One of the things I find helpful is to come up with a purpose for the railroad.
Start by asking yourself questions about the route. Is it a shortline that feeds a mill? Is the route a former branch of a Class 1, or mainline railroad? Is it a division of a mainline? The time period. Is it before 1970? Is it the current period? Is it a realistic or fictional?
Once you have this established, you can then build route. When building you also want to stay consistent with your area and theme so that everything fits together.
I have found too that looking at maps, whether surveyor maps, topographical or regular road maps, really helps in determining the route. I've taken town names from various areas around my region, and used them on my route. I even mixed up the order a bit so that the towns are in the same area, but arranged a little bit. The maps too also help, especially if they have detailed railroad tracks, to get ideas about sidings, branchlines, and industries along the line.
Once you get yourself estabilished with what you want to accomplish, you'll find yourself entrenched in route building, and it will become your main focus of Trainz, or at least that's what the program has done to me.
John
Start by asking yourself questions about the route. Is it a shortline that feeds a mill? Is the route a former branch of a Class 1, or mainline railroad? Is it a division of a mainline? The time period. Is it before 1970? Is it the current period? Is it a realistic or fictional?
Once you have this established, you can then build route. When building you also want to stay consistent with your area and theme so that everything fits together.
I have found too that looking at maps, whether surveyor maps, topographical or regular road maps, really helps in determining the route. I've taken town names from various areas around my region, and used them on my route. I even mixed up the order a bit so that the towns are in the same area, but arranged a little bit. The maps too also help, especially if they have detailed railroad tracks, to get ideas about sidings, branchlines, and industries along the line.
Once you get yourself estabilished with what you want to accomplish, you'll find yourself entrenched in route building, and it will become your main focus of Trainz, or at least that's what the program has done to me.
John
John wrote.........
Once you get yourself estabilished with what you want to accomplish, you'll find yourself entrenched in route building, and it will become your main focus of Trainz, or at least that's what the program has done to me.
You are so correct John, and I agree wholeheartedly. When I first got started, one of the first things I noticed was the ton of layouts, and like a lot of folks, I downloaded my share. But I soon found out that those I created were the ones I truly loved. Placing industries, towns, rivers, hillls, deserts, etc where I want them is truly exciting. It definitely feeds my creativity bug. There is absolutely no time to get bored !!!!! Have fun.........:wave: :wave:
Once you get yourself estabilished with what you want to accomplish, you'll find yourself entrenched in route building, and it will become your main focus of Trainz, or at least that's what the program has done to me.
You are so correct John, and I agree wholeheartedly. When I first got started, one of the first things I noticed was the ton of layouts, and like a lot of folks, I downloaded my share. But I soon found out that those I created were the ones I truly loved. Placing industries, towns, rivers, hillls, deserts, etc where I want them is truly exciting. It definitely feeds my creativity bug. There is absolutely no time to get bored !!!!! Have fun.........:wave: :wave:
Greg_Hargreaves
<Insert Creative Title>
Depends on the route I'm making.
If it is DEM based obviously I start with the terrain, then followed by laying track.
If I'm not using DEM I tend to start with a yard or terminal and build out from there. If I am going to add terrain I usually do this after I've put in gradients on the track, then build terrian up around the track. The issue with this is on high-mountain routes the tracks can get very far away from the baseboard hight, which makes terrain editing difficult.
In summary:
Flat Layouts - Tracks and/or Industries first
Mountain Layouts - Terrain first (DEM-based makes it easier yet)
If it is DEM based obviously I start with the terrain, then followed by laying track.
If I'm not using DEM I tend to start with a yard or terminal and build out from there. If I am going to add terrain I usually do this after I've put in gradients on the track, then build terrian up around the track. The issue with this is on high-mountain routes the tracks can get very far away from the baseboard hight, which makes terrain editing difficult.
In summary:
Flat Layouts - Tracks and/or Industries first
Mountain Layouts - Terrain first (DEM-based makes it easier yet)
Hello, I'm also starting my own layout and I'm not very sure how to start. I've started two layouts a few months ago before learning the proper methods of track laying and thus "messed up".
Would appreciate if someone could summarise how to start off building a lage layout. It appears pretty daunting at first, how I take so long just to lay some tracks and scenery, texturing and all---one baseboard.
My route is freelanced:
Class 1 railway.
Passenger transport is main purpose with mostly mining industries.
Would like to have a high speed line with a mountain/terraineous line somewhat parallel to it.
I always come up with very "bland" landscapes to any tips and advise is much appreciated.
Nicholas =D
Would appreciate if someone could summarise how to start off building a lage layout. It appears pretty daunting at first, how I take so long just to lay some tracks and scenery, texturing and all---one baseboard.
My route is freelanced:
Class 1 railway.
Passenger transport is main purpose with mostly mining industries.
Would like to have a high speed line with a mountain/terraineous line somewhat parallel to it.
I always come up with very "bland" landscapes to any tips and advise is much appreciated.
Nicholas =D
Hi Nicholas........To the best of my knowledge, there really is no RULE. It will be a hit and miss experience at first. Once I thouht I had a general idea of how I wanted to approach a big layout, I would build anywhere from 2 to 5 board layouts of only one industry, trying to get some knowledge of what items were available from both built-in and the Download Station.
I first did an industry based on lumber, starting with Forestry1. I would throw in the Lumber Yard, the Pulp Mill, etc. While researching this industry, I would carefully make written notes on everything I thought I would include in a wood / lumber based industry. Then I would transfer these notes to something like WordPerfect, so that when I got to building another lumber based industry, I would not have to "re-invent the wheel" so to speak. I repeated building these very small layouts for other industries, and my intent was merge the layouts. I never did merge them. Seems every newer version was ALWAYS superior to the previous one !!!!!:hehe:
This process of building tiny layouts definitely helped me get better at all around route building. I WOULD NOT suggest starting out with a 1000+ board in mind !!! At least, not initially. You want to have a good overall understanding about signaling as well. What good would it do to have a large route with a dozen locomotives running into each other !!
Build several 3 board layouts that concentrate on one industry apiece, and let 2 locomotives serve that industry. You will quickly learn if there will be problems. If there are any, multiply them by ten-fold, twenty-fold for a larger layout, because they will be almost unmanageable the larger the layout. Have fun. I am. Good luck.......:wave:
Greg_Hargreaves
<Insert Creative Title>
Hello, I'm also starting my own layout and I'm not very sure how to start. I've started two layouts a few months ago before learning the proper methods of track laying and thus "messed up".
Would appreciate if someone could summarise how to start off building a lage layout. It appears pretty daunting at first, how I take so long just to lay some tracks and scenery, texturing and all---one baseboard.
My route is freelanced:
Class 1 railway.
Passenger transport is main purpose with mostly mining industries.
Would like to have a high speed line with a mountain/terraineous line somewhat parallel to it.
I always come up with very "bland" landscapes to any tips and advise is much appreciated.[/QUOTE]
For TRS2004 there was a layout-building tutorial in the manual, you hook up a coal mine to a powerstation. My first few layouts were of that same tutorial, each time I would experiment with something new such as track gradients, more realistic textures, and more/different industries.
I've been away from trainz for about a year now doing things like moving and getting married. Now I have time for trainz again, but my surveyor skills are lacking a bit from disuse. To counter this I'm doing another reincarnate of that tutorial route, about 6 baseboards in size.
It is really tempting to build that big layout right off the bat, but you'll be more pleased with yourself if start small, and improve your skills.
And now to answer your questions...
For large routes I start at an important terminal, yard, or large industry along my route and build out from there. I perfer mountainous rail-lines, so I will usually use DEM files - but that might be a tad much for a beginer.
As for texturing and scenery, I keep mine simple, just enough to give a theme. This is because I focus on operations, rather than realism. At this point you need to ask yourself "How bland is bland?"
Trackwork - there is no "proper" method. Different countries, different rail companies, even different subdivisions have distinct standards for their right of ways. Sometimes obstaces such as private property, moutains, and other railways cause them to make exceptions to their standards (Google: CP Rail's Spiral Tunnels). As long as the trackwork looks okay to you, then go with it.
Now, get out there and build yourself an empire!!
Orpheus2000
Member
One approach I found useful was to create, say, a forestry layout on one board, then, if I'm pleased with it, save it and keep it separately. Then do likewise with other industries or stations. That gives you modules which you can use to build different layouts without having to recreate a past masterpiece. I also create boards containing straightforward track and general scenery, which can be duplicated as often as you like to create a very large layout very quickly Then you can just tweak the repeated bits to remove excessive repetition in the layout. The only problem with merging modules is that you can't change the orientation of boards.
Pardon me, but what does a DEM stand for? 
All in all, thanks Chris for the heaps of help, I have a rough "blueprint" for my central station layout which would be in the center of the route and then I'll extend in the north and south directions. Although by landscape I'm referring to hills, embankments, nice cliff edges with soaring trestle bridges and graceful , I'm trying out your suggestion of keeping the texturing simple because I normally take anywhere from 6 to 20 hours painting a single baseboard.
To follow Orpheus2000's advise, I've started a small industrial loop ( it's four baseboards) with a number of coal mines, power stations, stations and a small town to practice my signalling skills (which I must admit is very hard to master). Added two portals to provide some "quick relief" of operating my own railway instead of until I actually finish the big project.
To a newbie like me, even layouts below 10 baseboards seem daunting to me, let alone routes such as the Midland Central (available from trains.0catch.com ) with 130+ baseboards. Perhaps this is how many beginner surveyors feel as well? So Manjoe, perhaps I might be building 1000 plus baseboard railways in about a few years time? Who knows :hehe:
All in all, thanks Chris for the heaps of help, I have a rough "blueprint" for my central station layout which would be in the center of the route and then I'll extend in the north and south directions. Although by landscape I'm referring to hills, embankments, nice cliff edges with soaring trestle bridges and graceful , I'm trying out your suggestion of keeping the texturing simple because I normally take anywhere from 6 to 20 hours painting a single baseboard.
To follow Orpheus2000's advise, I've started a small industrial loop ( it's four baseboards) with a number of coal mines, power stations, stations and a small town to practice my signalling skills (which I must admit is very hard to master). Added two portals to provide some "quick relief" of operating my own railway instead of until I actually finish the big project.
To a newbie like me, even layouts below 10 baseboards seem daunting to me, let alone routes such as the Midland Central (available from trains.0catch.com ) with 130+ baseboards. Perhaps this is how many beginner surveyors feel as well? So Manjoe, perhaps I might be building 1000 plus baseboard railways in about a few years time? Who knows :hehe:
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Pardon me, but what does a DEM stand for?
Digital Elevation Mapping. It's basically what routebuilders use to accurately get the terrain of a specific area.
A greyscale image from Google Earth wouldnk't make a displacement map that even vaguely reflected the actual terrain, although I have used pictures of various things to generate freelance terrain with interesting results. Look for pictures with strong contrasts.
Topographic maps can be used to create displacement maps, altthough it's a slow and tedious process and the limit is only about 4 baseboards, if I remember my own experiments.
DEM is a set of data from the government, here the US Geological Survey, that measures the height of the surface terrain at 10 or 30 meter intervals to create a digital 3D representation of the world.
MicroDEM is a program to convert DEM data to image files, and then HOG (Hand of God) takes the image and converts it into a ground file for Trainz. Full info and links for the programs is at this site...
http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.com/...rrainGeneration/Computer-generatedTerrain.htm
TransDEM is a payware program that does all the MicroDEM and HOG work in one program and a few other things.
Claude
Topographic maps can be used to create displacement maps, altthough it's a slow and tedious process and the limit is only about 4 baseboards, if I remember my own experiments.
DEM is a set of data from the government, here the US Geological Survey, that measures the height of the surface terrain at 10 or 30 meter intervals to create a digital 3D representation of the world.
MicroDEM is a program to convert DEM data to image files, and then HOG (Hand of God) takes the image and converts it into a ground file for Trainz. Full info and links for the programs is at this site...
http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.com/...rrainGeneration/Computer-generatedTerrain.htm
TransDEM is a payware program that does all the MicroDEM and HOG work in one program and a few other things.
ClaudeThanks for the link, although I may take the next few days trying out the DEM methods. Is there, by any chance any other method where I can do large scale terraining? Also, if I'm starting a small industrial loop and have the geographical plan ready, how to do I draw it out as a displacement map?
Hi Nicky............For large scale terrain building, you can try holding down the ALT KEY and typing in the letters MMMG. You get instant terrain. I dont personally care for it, but you sure can fill up some squares really fast.
You may also go to the TOPOLOGY advanced functions, and after selecting an area, you can have an instant hill, slope, valley, or volcano. Just a couple of things I know about. I am sure the veterans can fill in the blanks. Wont take long before you will be staring at a 1000+ board layout !!!!:hehe: Good luck......:wave:
IF you want to try route building on DEM terrain without the hassle of setting it up yourself, have a look at the many blank DEM generated maps by fishlipsatwork on the DLS. They are mostly of real places in North America, but they are perfect for just using as a blank canvas for your own imagination...
Paul
Paul
Larrymc812
New member
I spent years as a wanna-be model railroader but never had the space/finances. But I found layout design to be entertaining. I designed hundreds of layouts. I had all the books- John Armstrong, etc.
My point is that I find myself instinctively approaching route building from that angle. I suggest that you may find this useful.
When planning what you're gonna build, consider traffic flow. A point-to-point scheme means turning/creating trains at each end. Use of a portal at one or both ends is a great option. Or you may select a circular track plan for continuous running.
I find that the Drivers are fine for mainline running- but I have yet to discover how to make them do any switching(yard shunting-setting out/picking up cars). This means that any such activity must be done by you. Consider this well- you can only be at one place at a time.
Overall we are constrained into 3 different approaches. Build a large track plan and you are a dispatcher and trainz-watcher. Or something smaller where you operate a switcher(shunting engine) at a specific location and inbound/outbound cars come from passing trains. Or, between those where you are engineer of (what is called in the US) a way-freight where you travel down the line switching the industries and yeilding right-of-way to the driver driven mainline trains.
I just can't see how anyone can build a large railroad in Trainz and plan on doing anything other than watching over the operation.
My point is that I find myself instinctively approaching route building from that angle. I suggest that you may find this useful.
When planning what you're gonna build, consider traffic flow. A point-to-point scheme means turning/creating trains at each end. Use of a portal at one or both ends is a great option. Or you may select a circular track plan for continuous running.
I find that the Drivers are fine for mainline running- but I have yet to discover how to make them do any switching(yard shunting-setting out/picking up cars). This means that any such activity must be done by you. Consider this well- you can only be at one place at a time.
Overall we are constrained into 3 different approaches. Build a large track plan and you are a dispatcher and trainz-watcher. Or something smaller where you operate a switcher(shunting engine) at a specific location and inbound/outbound cars come from passing trains. Or, between those where you are engineer of (what is called in the US) a way-freight where you travel down the line switching the industries and yeilding right-of-way to the driver driven mainline trains.
I just can't see how anyone can build a large railroad in Trainz and plan on doing anything other than watching over the operation.
Hi Larry....I gravitated toward a larger layout because I wanted a lot of different industries, but only operate one or two industries at a time. I got tired of just the steel industry layouts, just the forestry industry, just the automotive, just the coal / power / nuclear, etc. I found that for me, a large layout was an absolute must and it had to include a little bit of everything available.
But I also like seeing other trains passing by just like I see in the world around me here in Florida USA, from a variety of industries including passenger traffic. While I dont concentrate on passenger service, I still want to see passenger train occasionally running. I want work car trains running, like those from Bendorsey.
I continue to build the small layout, but only to get a feel for what should go on it. But I immediately transfer those ideas to the large layout. The idea of a one board steel mill is just not appetizing to me. It has to cover at least 10 boards to have any form of realism to me. I cant imagine the Ford Motor plant being on one board. The large layout will always be #1 with me, followed by smaller ones for testing. Good luck with all sizes. They all are fun.:wave:
But I also like seeing other trains passing by just like I see in the world around me here in Florida USA, from a variety of industries including passenger traffic. While I dont concentrate on passenger service, I still want to see passenger train occasionally running. I want work car trains running, like those from Bendorsey.
I continue to build the small layout, but only to get a feel for what should go on it. But I immediately transfer those ideas to the large layout. The idea of a one board steel mill is just not appetizing to me. It has to cover at least 10 boards to have any form of realism to me. I cant imagine the Ford Motor plant being on one board. The large layout will always be #1 with me, followed by smaller ones for testing. Good luck with all sizes. They all are fun.:wave:
Larrymc812
New member
Yeah I always go for the large plan too. I used to design double and triple tier trackplans- one in a tri-level home had a branch which penetrated the wall and ended in an end of track diorama in the living room. lol
Doing this on the pc means you have essentially unlimited space and development of more industries frees us from the logging and coal lines.
But the limitations imposed by the driver's lack of switching capability forces us to design around the lone human. You must choose where/what you are going to do- the rest must be automatic and that means NO SWITCHING. So with our large layouts we can move about and watch where we will but if you choose to operate a train you are precluded from seeing much of the rest. I find this to be a major shortcoming. Its the reason I stopped using '04. Now with '06 out the situation remains. More interactive industries available but you can't use them without being confined to that place.
Doing this on the pc means you have essentially unlimited space and development of more industries frees us from the logging and coal lines.
But the limitations imposed by the driver's lack of switching capability forces us to design around the lone human. You must choose where/what you are going to do- the rest must be automatic and that means NO SWITCHING. So with our large layouts we can move about and watch where we will but if you choose to operate a train you are precluded from seeing much of the rest. I find this to be a major shortcoming. Its the reason I stopped using '04. Now with '06 out the situation remains. More interactive industries available but you can't use them without being confined to that place.