BBC's Big Fluke On The Flying Scotsman Story

[nickman222]

Hi all,

Recently, BBC Did A Story On The Recent Repainting Of Flying Scotsman 4472. This Quote Was Pulled Directly From The Text Under The Video.

"The steam engine, which was the first to be officially recorded at 100 miles per hour, was bought for the nation in 2004."

This Statement Is False. The First English Locomotive To Hit 100 miles per hour was City Of Truro. City of Truro was timed at a speed of 102.3 MPH while hauling the "Ocean Mails" special from Plymouth to London Paddington on 9 May 1904. Anyone Else Find It Annoying That They Cannot Get The Story Right?

-Nick

Link To Story:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13582357

Link To Complaint Box (If You Would Like To) : http://news.bbc.co.uk/newswatch/ifs/hi/newsid_4000000/newsid_4000500/4000537.stm

 

[Saxham_Market]

The key word is officially. Previous locos to top 100mph would have been speeding, so while their operators might have been content for the news to come out unofficially, official recognition would probably have involved a trip to the magistrates' court.

 

[bendorsey]

On this side of the pond Casey Jones wouldn't have cared about the word "officially", lol.

Ben

 

[Saxham_Market]

On this side of the pond Casey Jones wouldn't have cared about the word "officially", lol.

Ben

From what I remember of how the TV show depicted braking, the Cannonball Express must have had octagonal wheels - making topping 100mph an even greater achievement.

 

[nickman222]

From what I remember of how the TV show depicted braking, the Cannonball Express must have had octagonal wheels - making topping 100mph an even greater achievement.

Point Blank Being That Flying Scotsman Was NOT the first.

 

[BLACKWATCH]

Nickman, what you have missed out is a very important fact.
City of Truro was timed by a hack with a watch .............

This speed was recorded from the train by Charles Rous-Marten, who wrote for The Railway Magazine and other journals.

......... whilst Flying Scotsman was timed using a 'Dynamometer Car', so it could be proven to be an acurate reading. (which a newspaper hack with an uncalibrated watch can't be).

 

[nickman222]

I See. But How do You Know The Watch Was Not Calibrated? Not To Say It Was Calibrated.

 

[bassist118]

I See. But How do You Know The Watch Was Not Calibrated? Not To Say It Was Calibrated.

It wont matter if the watch is calibrated, Turo it was done with someone timing between quater mile posts so you'd have to calibrate the person too (impossible to do now with current brain surgury let alone in the early 1900s)

Andy

 

[Robertd81]

Getting back to the original point, while I wouldn't doubt the marvellous feats Flying Scotsman has achieved (truly, a remarkable piece of machinery with a soul), City of Truro, and countless other unsung engines really did break the 100 mph barrier well before the Scotsman was a glint in the milkman's eye. Recently it's felt like the BBC had been less than brilliant with its news. The website is filled with terrible typos and errors, and the factual side of their information seems diluted somehow... which is a shame really, Auntie's standards were once a little bit higher.

All that aside, what a beautiful lady the Scotsman is, however they choose to paint her.

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

FS is an over rated, over publicised heap of scrap iron.

City Of Truro is a thoroughbred, i know which one my money is on for the 100mph+ record.

IKB.

 

[DeRiCo]

There may have been many times a speed has been reached by other engines, but, over the years has there been any change to the track lignment.

Here in NSW, Australia, the track between Sydney and Newcastle has been altered a few times.

When they do alter the track such as taking a few corners off, the mile posts are squeezed into the new space as it is easier and quicker than moving every post along the route. This results in a shorter actual distance than indicated on the posts.

An example is:

100km 55 minutes = 109.17kph
98km 55 minutes = 106.99kph

That results in a difference of 2.18kph

That is one reason why you need the time & distance verified.

Dennis

 

[Saxham_Market]

Where I was going with my original reply was that the BBC news story never described Flying Scotsman as the first engine to attain 100mph (which it almost certainly wasn't), but rather as the first to have officially broken the 100mph "barrier" (which is a matter of record). Did City of Truro exceed 100mph? Most likely yes. Was City of Truro the first engine to do so? Who knows.

I've seen suggestions that a Lancashire & Yorkshire locomotive might have achieved this feat five years earlier, but as far as I know there wasn't even a journalist with a stopwatch on board (or if there was, perhaps he did accede to the railway company's request not to go telling everybody about it).

The positive outcome of all this is that both the "unofficial" and the "official" contenders to the title escaped the fate of so many of their sisters when the time came for them to retire from service, and it's either possible now, or will be possible very shortly, to see both on the rail network doing what they were built to do - pulling trains.

 

[amigacooke]

From the National Railway Museum's Flying Scotsman web site:

"A few years later, in 1934, Scotsman was clocked at 100mph – officially the first locomotive to have done so."

http://www.flyingscotsman.org.uk/about.aspx

If the BBC believes the NRM can you blame them?

PS The May edition of Steam Railway contains an article that quotes ex-BR manager and timing expert Bryan Benn. He maintains that the City of Truro didn't have the horsepower to go over 92mph and that the Flying Scotsman's record breaking run only had a top speed of 98mph.

 

[Saxham_Market]

PS The May edition of Steam Railway contains an article that quotes ex-BR manager and timing expert Bryan Benn. He maintains that the City of Truro didn't have the horsepower to go over 92mph and that the Flying Scotsman's record breaking run only had a top speed of 98mph.

Another contender for the first reliably recorded 100mph run that I've seen proposed is Flying Scotsman's sister locomotive Papyrus in 1935. I've not seen the article in question, but is Bryan Benn the source of that proposal?

(City of Truro might well have benefited from the presence of Sir Isaac Newton on the footplate).

 

[Stationbeem]

FS is an over rated, over publicised heap of scrap iron.

City Of Truro is a thoroughbred, i know which one my money is on for the 100mph+ record.

IKB.

Being a fan of the FS and hearing of the much publicised re-paint, must agree here. Only on the fact that it has been over publicised. What I will agree on is that the "City of Truro" is a thoroughbred.

Here is a quote from a book I have..."City of Truro" is known for the speed record that it set on 9 May 1904, when it hauled the "Ocean Mail Express" between Plymouth and Paddington. The service normally carried no passengers,but on this occasion Charles Rous-Marten, a railway commentator and journalist, had been invited on the journey, probably because a high-speed run had been planned. By using milepost timings, Rous-Marten recorded a top speed of 164km (102 miles) per hour down Wellington Bank in Somerset. The speed was not officially confirmed by the Great Western Railway until 1922 - perhaps because of safety concerns - but after that the record was given much publicity.

To that point I concede the speed record between the two loco's to the "City of Truro" She is a smaller engine than FS being a 4-4-0 and FS being a 4-6-2. Which proves that bigger is not always better or faster. And the FS only touched the 100 mph speed.

 

[BLACKWATCH]

FS is an over rated, over publicised heap of scrap iron.

City Of Truro is a thoroughbred, i know which one my money is on for the 100mph+ record.

IKB.

Ah, but then you're bound to be a little biased (being a swindon man & your penchant for the GWR)

 

[jnjkerbin]

I have a feeling that to be actually recorded as breaking 100mph (or any other speed for that matter) that it must be verified by two time keepers. Although the City of Truro is generally believed to be the first locomotive to reach 100mph it was only verified by one timekeeper instead of the officially required two.
Joe