Article on Amtrak 188 Crash...

Unfortunately, there's a load of bat**** insane conspiracy theories saying that Amtrack 188 crash was staged...or something like that. The evidence should be all in the locomotive's Train Event Recorder.
 
Steamdemon said:
Unfortunately, there's a load of bat**** insane conspiracy theories saying that Amtrack 188 crash was staged...or something like that. The evidence should be all in the locomotive's Train Event Recorder.
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I read that too and I don't believe it either. What the NTSB our Transport Safety Board finds will be interesting.
 
Hi John and Everybody.
JCitron said:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-wreck-of-amtrak-188/ar-BBoJ0Om

This is very interesting article on the May 2015 crash of Amtrak 188 in Philadelphia. The NTSB should have some preliminary answers to the cause in a couple of weeks; they ought to be interesting.

John
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John, I see the report documents published yesterday contained only the contents of the factual investigation documents and interviews with the driver and others involved with the operation of the train. No investigation conclusions where given in regard to the contents of the documents and those reading them were left to gather their own thoughts on the causes of the incident at this point in time.

However, the documents did expose the fact that there were no problems with the rail infrastructure or train operation in the minutes prior to the accident. Readers were advised that the speed control lever was put forward to maximum taking the vehicle to beyond 100 mph through a 70 and 80 mph restriction zone with the emergency brake only been applied as the train entered the 50 mph restricted curve.

No evidence could also be found for any outside objects entering the cab of the train prior to the accident which may have caused injury and disablement to the driver. One member of the investigation team has reportedly advised the press and media that the final report which will probably be published in May, could conclude a finding of the driver losing “situational awareness” as the primary cause of the incident.

On reading some of the documents this morning I believe that such a conclusion by the investigation team although factually correct would be an injustice to the driver. Surely the primary cause of this accident has to be that no train protection system (TPS) was fitted to the track infrastructure or train at the time of this accident. TPS systems have been widely fitted to railways all over the world for at least the last 20 years and Amtrak fitted such a system to this section of track immediately after this incident.

Therefore, the lack of such a TPS system in my humble opinion should be viewed as the primary cause of this accident as the speed overrun would have been automatically negated by the system and should be driver have been disabled the train brought to a halt. A further question which has not been answered is what happened to the trains “dead man” system which if the driver is incapacitated in any way applies the brakes when the lever or foot pedal operating the system is released. I believed that all single man operated passenger trains have this system fitted compulsorily worldwide. Therefore that question also remains unless dead man levers are not fitted to Amtrak trains in the USA.

Amtrak has already acknowledged responsibility for this tragic incident and therefore I believe they should immediately commence at least preliminary compensation payments to all family members and next of kin of those who died and also those who suffered serious injury as a result of this accident. It is being reported that compensation claims are “tied up” in legal and legislative argument but that should not at stop Amtrak making immediate preliminary payments to those who are now suffering so badly in the outcome of what has to be someone in this companies neglect.

Nothing else but the commencement of immediate payments should suffice
Bill
 
I agree, Bill. This does a disservice to the engineer who so far has shown nothing more than hitting the throttle at the wrong time. Whatever the conditions that caused him to do that are, are still unknown at this time.

I was reading through some of the documents last night. Very interesting and can be obtained at www.ntsb.gov. These are mostly PDF format which can of course be read on any platform. The one zip file is nothing more than GPS .kmz information, and there is one or two .csv files which are the raw data from the switch machine voltages.

One of the recommendations made is to implement PTC and this was reiterated a few times to the FRA sighting that not only would lives have been saved, but also many millions of dollars saved. This accident represents $27 million plus in damages to the railcars a lone not counting any payout now to the affected victims.

In addition to the recommendation of TPS, the NTSB also recommended that inward and forward facing cameras and sounds sytem be placed in the cabs. The FRA has balked at this since the beginning as they sighted crew privacy and so on, which to me is a lame excuse. To be honest it all boils down to money not wanting to be spent.

Since the accident occurred, some signals have been changed on the tighter curves to be well below the tipping speed as they called it. This signals was among them, and with the cab signals receiving the medium speed restriction, they will automatically force the train to slow down with the implementation of the new and old TPS they do have in place.

The problem is it took an accident like this to finally force the hand of parties involved rather than just spending the funds and implementing this system along with the cameras right off.

The final report will be released in May 2016 around the anniversary of the accident, which I read somewhere.

John
 
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Several things will eventually take place:

The engineer (who was at one time a train simulator fan) will never pilot a train, and will probably never work for a RR again.

Civil and Criminal cases against Amtrak, and Bosnian, will eventually pay some minute compensation for the dead and injured ... this may take years

Richard Gates spent considerable time in a MD prison for his part in the wrongful negligent death of passengers onboard Amtrak crash in Gunpowder Falls MD. Amtrak#16 Killed in Jan 4 1987 Crash The accident, which killed 16 people and injured more than 170, occurred when the high-speed Amtrak passenger train collided with three Conrail locomotives at a junction near Baltimore on Jan 4, 1987 It was the worst accident in Amtrak's 15-year history.
 
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JCitron said:
I agree, Bill. This does a disservice to the engineer who so far has shown nothing more than hitting the throttle at the wrong time. Whatever the conditions that caused him to do that are, are still unknown at this time.

One of the recommendations made is to implement PTC and this was reiterated a few times to the FRA sighting that not only would lives have been saved, but also many millions of dollars saved. This accident represents $27 million plus in damages to the railcars a lone not counting any payout now to the affected victims.

In addition to the recommendation of TPS, the NTSB also recommended that inward and forward facing cameras and sounds sytem be placed in the cabs. The FRA has balked at this since the beginning as they sighted crew privacy and so on, which to me is a lame excuse. To be honest it all boils down to money not wanting to be spent.


The problem is it took an accident like this to finally force the hand of parties involved rather than just spending the funds and implementing this system along with the cameras right off. John
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cascaderailroad said:
Several things will eventually take place:

The engineer (who was at one time a train simulator fan) will never pilot a train, and will probably never work for a RR again.

Civil and Criminal cases against Amtrak, and Bosnian, will eventually pay some minute compensation for the dead and injured ... this may take years
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Hi John,Cascaderailroad and Everybody.
John, cascade, I hope you do not mind me “editing” your above postings at #5 and #6 of this thread as i only wish to comment on the sections left above.

In regard to the driver of the train I find the action of Amtrak in leaving him on “unpaid leave” since the incident totally disgusting and would be illegal here in the UK. As John states in his posting whether negligence or disablement contributed to the part he played in this rail tragedy nothing has yet been proven and therefore fair treatment should be the first prerogative of the company.

It may well be that his own work colleagues in trying to help him actually did more harm than good. By advising the press and media of his total devotion to his work they also stated that on the finish of his shift each day he would go home and then spend the evenings on Internet forums and chat rooms talking further on railroads and driving trains. The foregoing has brought forward much speculation in regard to him having a “mental obsession” with railways and trains to the exclusion of everything else.

The above was discussed in a transport industry safety Journal recently where the writer of an article expressed many people’s thoughts by advising that almost all persons at the end of their working day just want to get away from everything that is connected with that work and relax in other pastimes. I found I was able to concur with that statement as it was looking for a pastime away from my work in transport safety that brought me many years ago into Trainz. There was nothing like finding pure relaxation by way of building your own little world away from the real world as a pastime.

The accident investigator who briefed the media and press on the release of the first of February documents did demonstrate that the thoughts of the accident investigation team may well be concentrating on the above. That mind set was seen when he said that the final conclusion may well be that the train driver lost “situational awareness” and that could be brought forward as the prime cause of the accident. The foregoing statement by the investigator could be interpreted in several different ways and we will have to see how that pans out in the final conclusion report. However, I would agree with cascaderailroad where he states in his posting at #6 of this thread that the driver will probably never drive a rail vehicle again or even work for a railroad company. However, treating him fairly until those final conclusions are drawn is an essential and he should be on full pay suspension rather than the unpaid leave he is on at this moment.

In regard to compensation for the passengers who were victims of this accident, I would certainly hope that preliminary payments are forthcoming in very short order and should with any justice have been paid by now. As John states in his above posting this accident was entirely avoidable and Amtrak have already admitted that fact. Nothing can bring back those who have died and nothing can truly compensate those with the terrible injuries they suffered and will have to live with for the rest of their lives. However the financial hardship which always comes in the above circumstances can be alleviated, and should be alleviated immediately as anything else demonstrates that there is no true justice for such victims in America.

There was a thread on this forum three months ago with regard to a rollercoaster accident here in the UK where two young people lost limbs and others received serious mental and physical injuries. To their credit the company operating the theme Park and roller-coaster have already paid out substantial sums to those who suffered those injuries within a few months of the incident and even before the Health and Safety Executive final report and conclusions has been published, and that’s the way it should be.

Bill
 
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There is a limited fund setup for this kind of thing and I believe the funds are then distributed by a magistrate. I do hope the accident victims and their families are compensated for quickly, however, knowing how slow the judicial system moves, along with insurance companies, this maybe a bit longer than it should be and sadly so.

I agree that his coworkers may have done a disservice by stating his love of trains and railroads. In the public eye this makes him into someone who isn't wound tight or has some obsessive compulsive order. Then again how many IT people go home and build their own computers? I know I did while in IT for many years along with many others in my field. I had a complete network server and network setup in my house where I just about mirrored my work environment. In this case it served my brother's business and still does, and for me a learning tool. The same goes with musicians, artists, and others in many fields. In many cases it's the love of the industry that brings them to work in that field.

But alas, railroads are different, I suppose... They're considered the outcasts, at least over here, and anyone obsessed with "choo-choo trains" is considered off their rockers anyway. I really do feel bad for the driver and he should be compensated during the investigation. Like any accident or crime, the defendant is considered to be innocent until proven guilty no matter how damning the evidence is. Sadly in this case the media and his employer have judged and hung him without due course and process he is entitled to.

I'm glad to hear the roller coaster victims were compensated, though sadly like all compensation this does not bring back their limbs or their full health.

John
 
Wasn't an ACS-64 at the head? I heard some people blaming it on the power. IDK tho. Had any1 made an ACS in trainz?
 
Everything that could have gone wrong ... did go wrong ... the big guys in charge of the track/signal planning for the Frankford Junction, never in their wildest dreams, ever expected an engineer to be going that fast, northbound on that curve, so they purposely denied ATC installation on the northbound tracks for over a decade, saying it was not even needed at that location

Whether the engineer was frazzled, due to late schedule, or equipment problems will all be ironed out ... it is a very demanding monotonous, hypnotizing job.

I can not think of a more boring, stressful job than driving a high speed train day in, and day out, especially when there was a 110 speed limit before Frankford junction, reducing to 80mph, then reducing further to 50mph in the actual curve, and there was no ATC to warn of this speed restriction, even though these speed restrictions were in effect in the Frankford Junction train crash on the PRR in 1943, and is well known to be a dangerous tight curve. The 1943 crash was blamed on a defective hotbox, and happened a couple tenths of a mile east of Frankford Junction curve at Frankford & Glenwood ave's, near Pacific street, on a relatively straight stretch of track preceding the curve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7mbFiIH6-Q
 
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cascaderailroad said:
Everything that could have gone wrong ... did go wrong ... the big guys in charge of the track/signal planning for the Frankford Junction, never in their wildest dreams, ever expected an engineer to be going that fast, northbound on that curve, so they purposely denied ATC installation on the northbound tracks for over a decade, saying it was not even needed at that location

Whether the engineer was frazzled, due to late schedule, or equipment problems will all be ironed out ... it is a very demanding monotonous, hypnotizing job.

I can not think of a more boring, stressful job than driving a high speed train day in, and day out, especially when there was a 110 speed limit before Frankford junction, reducing to 80mph, then reducing further to 50mph in the actual curve, and there was no ATC to warn of this speed restriction, even though these speed restrictions were in effect in the Frankford Junction train crash on the PRR in 1943, and is well known to be a dangerous tight curve. The 1943 crash was blamed on a defective hotbox, and happened a couple tenths of a mile east of Frankford Junction curve at Frankford & Glenwood ave's, near Pacific street, on a relatively straight stretch of track preceding the curve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7mbFiIH6-Q
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Well when I become an engineer I'll be driving freight trains.
 
msn.com article cited by John Citron said:
surge of electricity from the catenary system to the traction motors that gripped the rails.
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Wow!

That is the first time I have ever read a journalist talking about traction motors. Someone has been doing their homework.

This is an excellent article.

Comments in this thread make reference to boring, hypnotic, tiring. I just want to say something, which has not been mentioned so far: Engineers (drivers) doze off and have microsleep and fall asleep.

Did this happen? I don't know and I am not implying so.

However, what I just mentioned is true (drivers and engineers have told me so), and the BLE are more than likely right about the need for proper time and extent of mandatory rest periods between turns.

A good article, John, and thanks for your comments.
 
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cascaderailroad said:
I seem to remember that the engineers assignment for the day started off by him being a bit frazzled and flustered in DC, and by the time he finally departed Phila the train was "late" ... most certainly at speeds of 110+ the DC to NYC assignment trip can be extremely hypnotic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7mbFiIH6-Q
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I read that too. He had gotten in late and had faulty equipment to contend with all the way from DC to 33rd Street Station.

Here's the final NTSB report.

http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/RAR1602.pdf

I recommend reading page 42 on which has the final recommendations.

I'm glad the victims and their families were awarded the judgment now rather than later.
 
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