The mystery behind the derailment deepens.
http://news.yahoo.com/ntsb-says-amtrak-engineer-didnt-132215729.html
http://news.yahoo.com/ntsb-says-amtrak-engineer-didnt-132215729.html
Amtrak Engineer not on Phone when the Train Derailed
- Thread starter jordon412
- Start date
simulatortrain
jointed freaking rails
Was it ever in question that he was?
Keep in mind that the NTSB is going to investigate everything, and I mean everything and every avenue from mobile phone use right down to how much sleep he had the night before and what he ate at lunch. The will take apart every bit of what's left of the train and interrogate crew under deposition, and the driver as well. This process will take about a year or more for the final results. In the mean time, the media will report anything they hear because it's a tidbit to report on.
If you are really interested in the goings on at the NTSB, go to www.ntsb.gov and follow some of the case logs and reports. It's pretty interesting stuff, but a bit dry and boring too at times to read, but at any rate the results will be done when they're are done, and let the media speculate.
John
If you are really interested in the goings on at the NTSB, go to www.ntsb.gov and follow some of the case logs and reports. It's pretty interesting stuff, but a bit dry and boring too at times to read, but at any rate the results will be done when they're are done, and let the media speculate.
John
Hi John and everybody.
John, I could not agree more with all you state regarding the thoroughness of industrial accidents investigations and therefore the time required to carry that out. However, there does seem to be one unusual development outside the investigation that leaves many of us involved in industrial safety rather amazed.
It has been reported in safety Journal’s on this side of the pond that a rather emotional CEO of Amtrak stated to a house transportation committee hearing that, “we (Amtrak) are responsible for the incident and its consequences”.
The above statement seemingly accepting full liability but coming well in front of even the preliminary accident investigation report has many involved “scratching their heads” I am sure. The report also advises that he broke down several times while giving evidence to the hearing which may point to the fact that the whole situation is now affecting Mr Joesph Boardmans health severely. If the foregoing is the case, anyone must wonder if he should have appeared in front of the hearing with such problems.
Bill
John, I could not agree more with all you state regarding the thoroughness of industrial accidents investigations and therefore the time required to carry that out. However, there does seem to be one unusual development outside the investigation that leaves many of us involved in industrial safety rather amazed.
It has been reported in safety Journal’s on this side of the pond that a rather emotional CEO of Amtrak stated to a house transportation committee hearing that, “we (Amtrak) are responsible for the incident and its consequences”.
The above statement seemingly accepting full liability but coming well in front of even the preliminary accident investigation report has many involved “scratching their heads” I am sure. The report also advises that he broke down several times while giving evidence to the hearing which may point to the fact that the whole situation is now affecting Mr Joesph Boardmans health severely. If the foregoing is the case, anyone must wonder if he should have appeared in front of the hearing with such problems.
Bill
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Bill,
I didn't hear about,Mr. Boardman breaking down. That could be another issue all together as well as his statement of responsibility. As you know heads of companies and agencies will say that whether it's in their power or not. Perhaps he knows more than we're being told, which is probably the case as well, but you know how things go in this regard...
The media, however, has been all over this crash since the outset, unlike the horrific crash a couple of years ago in New York when a commuter train took the corner too fast and people died. For this, I suppose this is because Britany Spears is hiding or something, so this has been the subject to slather over, though there are more important things on the docket. So if the slightest bit of information regarding the crash comes out, Faux News (New Corp.) CNN, and all the other big news outlets are all over this like white on rice and make more out of the investigation than there should be. I seriously say that the people here in the forums should read these reports on the NTSB.gov website. They are both interesting and informative, and are why I say a lot of what I do here. As I stated, they will investigate everything and everyone connected with the crash as they look for clues. This happens to be one of them that has been ruled out, and probably along with a lot more which weren't as news worthy.
John
John, the news media is after railroads in general. They are looking to publicize and scrutinize any crash anywhere on a major American railroad right now because there is a lot of controversy surrounding them. Worse off, they are out to make crews look bad and that humans are the culprits in each one of these crashes (Which some are). However, because people don't actually understand most railroad terms that is spit at them from the NTSB and the railroads themselves, they simply buy whatever is pumped in their faces from Fox and CNN which is that trains are dangerous and need to be outlawed in the US. We need to replace trains with pipelines (Which have already shown to be just as unsafe and ineffective as any railroad). The current agenda right now is one man, and getting closer, self-driving trains. However, I question all involved here, considering one of the spokesmen for the FRA doesn't even know what a conductors job is (how funny, organization for regulating trains, and they can't even figure out who does what) and one of the pushers for one man crews. If I see anything right now, Railroads and companies that use BNSF to ship really hate them now. And as much as I hate to say it, BNSF and CN are the ones mostly responsible, besides the RR behind the Qubec oil-train disaster for the scrutiny now of all railroad related business. Has there actually been a spike in derailments? No. Has there been a spike of the same derailments that happen every year now getting shoved in our faces? Yes. People need to understand one thing and use their head for something other than stuffing it in a TV and actually do some research. There have not been any more accidents than there has been in previous times, the news media is just making sure that we know about that train that hit a picked switch in the yard with empty boxcars, and one of them tipped over. We should sue the engineer, and make sure he never has a job again because it was his fault that mechanical failure occurred and the box-car tipped over.
simulatortrain
jointed freaking rails
To further your comment, derailments are much less common than they once were. No doubt that is due to the fact that there aren't as many trains running anymore, but that still means any particular community is less likely to encounter one.
Also, just to be clearr, picking a switch would not be considered a mechanical failure. If a rail or axle broke, that would be a mechanical failure, but not just something coming off the track.
Hi everybody.
I believe the reason why the news media worldwide are concentrating on the Amtrak Philadelphia incident is for the reason that tragically seven deaths and over 200 injuries were incurred in the derailment. The foregoing is very different to a comparison with a freight consist derailing at low speed and just causing equipment, monetary and perhaps environmental damage.
My occupation has kept me involved in industrial safety for the last 30 years. For much of that time I was almost 100% involved with safety in the British road haulage industry (known as trucking in the United States). Therefore, if you feel that the press and media are harsh on the railroad industry that shades into insignificance when compared to how they treat road haulage here in the United Kingdom and I expect it is the same in the US.
The average person dislikes heavy transport whether that is road, rail or air unless they are actually employed in one of those sectors. Heavy transport is noisy and causes inconvenience in people’s everyday lives. No one likes being held up behind a heavy lorry crawling along a winding country road which never seems to end. No one likes being held up at a railroad crossing for what seems like for ever when they are already late for work.
The above are just two examples of the inconvenience that heavy transport can cause but there are many more. Therefore, to the average person it is a system to be decried and the press and media only play up to that feeling by way of doing their job. The procedure in which the industry best protects itself from the foregoing is to keep serious incidents such as the Amtrak Philadelphia accident to an absolute minimum through vigilance, equipment maintenance, up to date and regularly reviewed safety procedures and thorough staff training with regard to safety.
In the above, the industry will keep press criticism to a minimum, but there always will be that criticism whenever the opportunity presents itself. If you work in the transport industry or you are just a rail enthusiasts the above media treatment goes with the territory and you have to just learn to live with it.
Enzo1, the National transportation authority (I think that’s what it is called in the US) is I believe very similar to the British Health and Safety Executive here in the UK. Their role is to oversee every day safety throughout the industry and to maintain the regulatory legislation which surrounds it. They are not expected to know and understand everyone’s individual job in any industry as that would be obviously impossible.
When a serious incident/accident occurs the role of the above bodies is to take charge and oversee the investigation. Where specialised advice is required they will appoint personnel with the specialised knowledge required to carry out investigations and then report back to them. The health and safety executive and the National transportation authority would then assess whether it was design, maintenance or human error (or a combination of all three) which brought about the incident. They then always go on to assess where safety regulation has been infringed, or where safety regulation is not sufficient and place that into the investigation report.
Through my company I have been involved in recent days in the inquiry with regard to the Staffordshire theme park roller-coaster incident in which four people were critically injured and many others suffered lesser trauma. The health and safety executive personnel were on site within three hours of the accident occurring and then started to delegate various sections of the initiating enquiry to people and companies who held the expertise required.
To end on a lighter note, the accident happened on Tuesday and it was being stated on site by the Thursday evening, that if all the experts that were on the ground by that time had boarded the Titanic, the ship would have sunk without hitting the iceberg.
Well, rollercoaster technology is very complex and investigations have to be thorough
Bill
I believe the reason why the news media worldwide are concentrating on the Amtrak Philadelphia incident is for the reason that tragically seven deaths and over 200 injuries were incurred in the derailment. The foregoing is very different to a comparison with a freight consist derailing at low speed and just causing equipment, monetary and perhaps environmental damage.
My occupation has kept me involved in industrial safety for the last 30 years. For much of that time I was almost 100% involved with safety in the British road haulage industry (known as trucking in the United States). Therefore, if you feel that the press and media are harsh on the railroad industry that shades into insignificance when compared to how they treat road haulage here in the United Kingdom and I expect it is the same in the US.
The average person dislikes heavy transport whether that is road, rail or air unless they are actually employed in one of those sectors. Heavy transport is noisy and causes inconvenience in people’s everyday lives. No one likes being held up behind a heavy lorry crawling along a winding country road which never seems to end. No one likes being held up at a railroad crossing for what seems like for ever when they are already late for work.
The above are just two examples of the inconvenience that heavy transport can cause but there are many more. Therefore, to the average person it is a system to be decried and the press and media only play up to that feeling by way of doing their job. The procedure in which the industry best protects itself from the foregoing is to keep serious incidents such as the Amtrak Philadelphia accident to an absolute minimum through vigilance, equipment maintenance, up to date and regularly reviewed safety procedures and thorough staff training with regard to safety.
In the above, the industry will keep press criticism to a minimum, but there always will be that criticism whenever the opportunity presents itself. If you work in the transport industry or you are just a rail enthusiasts the above media treatment goes with the territory and you have to just learn to live with it.
Enzo1;1408721 said:
Enzo1, the National transportation authority (I think that’s what it is called in the US) is I believe very similar to the British Health and Safety Executive here in the UK. Their role is to oversee every day safety throughout the industry and to maintain the regulatory legislation which surrounds it. They are not expected to know and understand everyone’s individual job in any industry as that would be obviously impossible.
When a serious incident/accident occurs the role of the above bodies is to take charge and oversee the investigation. Where specialised advice is required they will appoint personnel with the specialised knowledge required to carry out investigations and then report back to them. The health and safety executive and the National transportation authority would then assess whether it was design, maintenance or human error (or a combination of all three) which brought about the incident. They then always go on to assess where safety regulation has been infringed, or where safety regulation is not sufficient and place that into the investigation report.
Through my company I have been involved in recent days in the inquiry with regard to the Staffordshire theme park roller-coaster incident in which four people were critically injured and many others suffered lesser trauma. The health and safety executive personnel were on site within three hours of the accident occurring and then started to delegate various sections of the initiating enquiry to people and companies who held the expertise required.
To end on a lighter note, the accident happened on Tuesday and it was being stated on site by the Thursday evening, that if all the experts that were on the ground by that time had boarded the Titanic, the ship would have sunk without hitting the iceberg.
Well, rollercoaster technology is very complex and investigations have to be thorough
Bill
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The FRA is a joke today. The people are clueless because people that know what railroads do were removed, and are replaced with moles with an agenda, meaning anti-labor creeps who worked for big corporations with big pockets. A very typical result will be what occurred in Lawrence, MA back in 1987.When Guilford took over the Boston and Maine back in the early 1980s, the first thing they did was cut the train crews and defer maintenance on all equipment in addition to cutting wages. When a crew member was killed due to a runaway freight car, the big 1987 strike ensued. http://www.nytimes.com/1987/11/30/us/death-on-railroad-prompts-a-strike.html. The situation hasn't changed, and it appears to be heading to the national level now with the FRA in favor of the one-person crews. The Quebec oil train accident is typical of what can happen to a company that doesn't care for its power plant, and cuts corners in every aspect. The railroad had been sited and fined for many issues prior to this, yet did nothing about them. This one sadly, was the cream on the surface, and I believe they used a single engineer on this train which had problems to begin with.
The media... Yes, they always have it in for the railroads and always will because they are no longer independent news reporting agencies. They are owned by the same people that want the single-person crews, and pipelines are supposed to be cheaper to operate even though they make worse of a mess than a railroad ever will. Amtrak too is in this light as well because there is a political group that has been trying to do the company in since its inception. This accident only makes these salivating politicians see a bigger excuse to make further cuts rather than do the right thing and put more safety equipment in place. Sure they mandated the PTC, but also cut the funding for it. Go figure.
I agree there haven't been any more accidents, probably less as the railroads are far safer than they ever were even with more trains operating. The problem is as you said, the railroads are under the microscope so even the most mundane accident, such as the hopper cars tipping in Pittsburg a few days after the Amtrak accident, made the headlines even though it wasn't even remotely related to the Amtrak incident.
John
Hi John and Everybody.
John, with reference to your posting at #9 of this thread, I am certainly glad i have worked in transport safety on this side of the pond rather than yours. Industrial safety (especially rail) is very good now over here, so I have little I can complain about. I am thinking that your FRA is the equivalent of the UKs Office of the Rail and Road Regulator, is that correct.
Most informative posting John. You should have worked in industrial safety, it is never boring and I feel you would have done very well. Anyone with the patience to read Government accident/incident reports most certainly has the aptitude for the roll.
With all the experts that where in Staffordshire last week investigating the rolller-coaster accident, their was one in our hotel who said he was a consultant in "inertia". Roller-coasters, ineria, just demonstrates their has to be a role for everyone at some time whatever their skills. Cannot think what he does with his time when there are no roller-coaster emergences.
any suggestions anyone
Bil
John, with reference to your posting at #9 of this thread, I am certainly glad i have worked in transport safety on this side of the pond rather than yours. Industrial safety (especially rail) is very good now over here, so I have little I can complain about. I am thinking that your FRA is the equivalent of the UKs Office of the Rail and Road Regulator, is that correct.
Most informative posting John. You should have worked in industrial safety, it is never boring and I feel you would have done very well. Anyone with the patience to read Government accident/incident reports most certainly has the aptitude for the roll.
With all the experts that where in Staffordshire last week investigating the rolller-coaster accident, their was one in our hotel who said he was a consultant in "inertia". Roller-coasters, ineria, just demonstrates their has to be a role for everyone at some time whatever their skills. Cannot think what he does with his time when there are no roller-coaster emergences.
any suggestions anyone
Bil
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I would imagine anything that relied on maybe a gravity feed? loading chutes and hoppers perhaps, anything using a counter balance?
Hi clam1952 and everybody.
Malc, I think you are undoubtedly right in the above regarding the advisory work our "inertia consultant" would be asked to carry out. However, it appeared to be a very narrow field of expertise when he stated his profession over dinner at the hotel late at night on the first full day of the investigation into the roller-coaster incident.
I am at least for present off that investigation due to other cases i am involved in coming to court. However, the HSE has advised that the investigation at the Theme park should be concluded within the next twelve weeks. That statement along with the Network Rail investigation and immediate action regarding the Wooten Bassett rail spad has drawn great respect from the press/media and all others involved in transport safety in regard to the great efficiency of the authorities that oversee every day transport operations in the United Kingdom.
We have much to be well thankful for here in Britain especially when John Citron describes the situation in the United States in regard to transport safety and conditions surrounding it.
Bill
Malc, I think you are undoubtedly right in the above regarding the advisory work our "inertia consultant" would be asked to carry out. However, it appeared to be a very narrow field of expertise when he stated his profession over dinner at the hotel late at night on the first full day of the investigation into the roller-coaster incident.
I am at least for present off that investigation due to other cases i am involved in coming to court. However, the HSE has advised that the investigation at the Theme park should be concluded within the next twelve weeks. That statement along with the Network Rail investigation and immediate action regarding the Wooten Bassett rail spad has drawn great respect from the press/media and all others involved in transport safety in regard to the great efficiency of the authorities that oversee every day transport operations in the United Kingdom.
We have much to be well thankful for here in Britain especially when John Citron describes the situation in the United States in regard to transport safety and conditions surrounding it.
Bill
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We're currently in a mess, however, it wasn't this bad before I don't think and it all started around the time of that Guilford incident, perhaps a bit before.
You said something that piqued my interested. I sure do enjoy reading those reports as they give me an insight to what exactly the investigation found and not someone else's opinion on the news programs. I probably would have done well in transport and industrial safety and accident investigations. I have a keen attention to detail and always enjoyed solving problems. For many years I worked as a hardware technician right down the circuit level. Every problem to me wasn't just getting the device to work, which was the ultimate outcome. My aim was to find out why the device failed and analyse the problem in detail. This understanding of the components lead to other more lucrative positions in the companies I worked for, and this attention to the problem's cause lead to some interesting jobs too in the electronics and computer industry. But alas, I'm too old and no longer able to work, especially in a field where I would have to be trained right from the ground up so I enjoy these puzzles from afar.
I've been following that horrific rollercoaster accident on the BBC. One of the poor girls has lost her left leg and badly injured her arm. The other children appear to have badly broken bones and some internal injuries. I wonder if this accident may lead to a better designed carriage as well as braking system for these rides.
John
You said something that piqued my interested. I sure do enjoy reading those reports as they give me an insight to what exactly the investigation found and not someone else's opinion on the news programs. I probably would have done well in transport and industrial safety and accident investigations. I have a keen attention to detail and always enjoyed solving problems. For many years I worked as a hardware technician right down the circuit level. Every problem to me wasn't just getting the device to work, which was the ultimate outcome. My aim was to find out why the device failed and analyse the problem in detail. This understanding of the components lead to other more lucrative positions in the companies I worked for, and this attention to the problem's cause lead to some interesting jobs too in the electronics and computer industry. But alas, I'm too old and no longer able to work, especially in a field where I would have to be trained right from the ground up so I enjoy these puzzles from afar.
I've been following that horrific rollercoaster accident on the BBC. One of the poor girls has lost her left leg and badly injured her arm. The other children appear to have badly broken bones and some internal injuries. I wonder if this accident may lead to a better designed carriage as well as braking system for these rides.
John
The roller coaster accident you're talking about has perked my interest, Bill. One of my other interests is roller coasters, so I'd like some info about this accident. I've got every edition of Roller Coaster Tycoon plus every expansion pack. I'm kind of torn between Roller Coaster Tycoon 2 because it has some of the Six Flags theme parks and Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 because it included one thing I always wanted: Sandbox Mode.
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Hi John, Jordon and everybody.
John, Jordon, just to comment on the interest you both have shown in the theme Park rollercoaster accident, as there were really two tragedies at the park on the day of the incident. The first was the actual collision between the two cars on the track which happened at a height of 7.6 metres (25 feet) above the ground, with the second being the very inadequate response to the accident by the park management.
The Health and Safety Executive Personnel arrived at the site within three hours of the incident occurring and while the rescue operation was still going on. They immediately decided to split the investigation into two parts, the first being what caused the actual collision and the second being the response by the Park authorities in the immediate aftermath of the accident. My company was requested by the HSE to assist with our expertise in the second part of the overall investigation (the response) which is where I became involved.
How the two cars came to collide is still heavily under investigation with many structural engineers, mechanical engineers, software engineers, electrical engineers and even our inertia engineer among many others on-site.
The facts that were known in the aftermath of the incident where that immediately after the collision the staff employed to actually operate the ride spent the first five minutes just moving away all those that were waiting to ride on the roller-coaster ensuring that they took no pictures as they were being moved. In the foregoing it was more than five minutes before anyone phoned the Park main office to inform them there had been an incident on the ride
The management’s response to that was to send two of its “first responders” across the park to the ride arriving more than 12 minutes after the accident had occurred (bearing in mind there were 16 people trapped and injured in the car, four of them critically at an angle of 45°). The two responders finding there was nothing they could do from the ground called back to the office who then took the decision to call the ambulance service with a paramedic arriving 15 minutes after the call and the first ambulance arriving five minutes after that.
The paramedic and the ambulance crews also immediately realised that they would not be able to assist anyone from ground level. They were then astounded to learn that the fire service had not been requested to assist by the emergency call centre as no information had been given to them regarding the height at which the accident had occurred despite the call centre requesting details of the incident when the first call was made.
The fire service arrived a further 20 minutes after the paramedic called them on his own phone by which time over an hour had passed since the incident had occurred with no professional medical help being available to all those trapped in the car. It took a further three and a half hours to rescue everyone involved by which time many were suffering severe trauma.
With the above information in mind I believe it is easy to see why the HSE decided to split the accident investigation into two parts as different skills would be needed to investigate the sites response to the incident as against the skills needed to find the cause of the actual collision.
Our job in investigating the response has been to first of all go through all the dynamic risk assessments compiled with regard to the operation of the roller-coaster and through that the procedures that should have come into effect in response to any foreseeable situation occurring. We then have had to assess as to whether each individual risk assessment was sufficient and adequate for the hazards being evaluated and if the risk reduction measures (where necessary) where assessed accurately. We then started the long task of interviewing all employees involved with the operation of the ride with regard to their training with reference to the emergency procedures drawn up within the risk assessments.
The personnel involved in the operation of the rides at theme parks are almost all very young people often on part-time contracts and minimum wages. I believe as we carried out those interviews the real impact the incident had made on those young employees came home to us as the interviewers. Many very genuinely broke down in complete distress during the course of the interviews especially those who were on the scene when the accident occurred. They had no option but to just stand on the ground for over an hour and just listen to the screams and shouts from the car while no assistance could be given.
I have done many interviews following accidents in my long career in industrial safety, but I have to say on this occasion listening to those young people very much impacted on me as never before.
Anyway, back to topic. Any new news on the Amtrak Philadelphia disaster as an update to what has already been stated in this thread
Bill
John, Jordon, just to comment on the interest you both have shown in the theme Park rollercoaster accident, as there were really two tragedies at the park on the day of the incident. The first was the actual collision between the two cars on the track which happened at a height of 7.6 metres (25 feet) above the ground, with the second being the very inadequate response to the accident by the park management.
The Health and Safety Executive Personnel arrived at the site within three hours of the incident occurring and while the rescue operation was still going on. They immediately decided to split the investigation into two parts, the first being what caused the actual collision and the second being the response by the Park authorities in the immediate aftermath of the accident. My company was requested by the HSE to assist with our expertise in the second part of the overall investigation (the response) which is where I became involved.
How the two cars came to collide is still heavily under investigation with many structural engineers, mechanical engineers, software engineers, electrical engineers and even our inertia engineer among many others on-site.
The facts that were known in the aftermath of the incident where that immediately after the collision the staff employed to actually operate the ride spent the first five minutes just moving away all those that were waiting to ride on the roller-coaster ensuring that they took no pictures as they were being moved. In the foregoing it was more than five minutes before anyone phoned the Park main office to inform them there had been an incident on the ride
The management’s response to that was to send two of its “first responders” across the park to the ride arriving more than 12 minutes after the accident had occurred (bearing in mind there were 16 people trapped and injured in the car, four of them critically at an angle of 45°). The two responders finding there was nothing they could do from the ground called back to the office who then took the decision to call the ambulance service with a paramedic arriving 15 minutes after the call and the first ambulance arriving five minutes after that.
The paramedic and the ambulance crews also immediately realised that they would not be able to assist anyone from ground level. They were then astounded to learn that the fire service had not been requested to assist by the emergency call centre as no information had been given to them regarding the height at which the accident had occurred despite the call centre requesting details of the incident when the first call was made.
The fire service arrived a further 20 minutes after the paramedic called them on his own phone by which time over an hour had passed since the incident had occurred with no professional medical help being available to all those trapped in the car. It took a further three and a half hours to rescue everyone involved by which time many were suffering severe trauma.
With the above information in mind I believe it is easy to see why the HSE decided to split the accident investigation into two parts as different skills would be needed to investigate the sites response to the incident as against the skills needed to find the cause of the actual collision.
Our job in investigating the response has been to first of all go through all the dynamic risk assessments compiled with regard to the operation of the roller-coaster and through that the procedures that should have come into effect in response to any foreseeable situation occurring. We then have had to assess as to whether each individual risk assessment was sufficient and adequate for the hazards being evaluated and if the risk reduction measures (where necessary) where assessed accurately. We then started the long task of interviewing all employees involved with the operation of the ride with regard to their training with reference to the emergency procedures drawn up within the risk assessments.
The personnel involved in the operation of the rides at theme parks are almost all very young people often on part-time contracts and minimum wages. I believe as we carried out those interviews the real impact the incident had made on those young employees came home to us as the interviewers. Many very genuinely broke down in complete distress during the course of the interviews especially those who were on the scene when the accident occurred. They had no option but to just stand on the ground for over an hour and just listen to the screams and shouts from the car while no assistance could be given.
I have done many interviews following accidents in my long career in industrial safety, but I have to say on this occasion listening to those young people very much impacted on me as never before.
Anyway, back to topic. Any new news on the Amtrak Philadelphia disaster as an update to what has already been stated in this thread
Bill
Hi Bill,
Thank you for that interesting account on that horrific accident. Mechanical problems will occur and accidents will happen, hopefully not often but they do. What is most shocking with this, is the lack of preparedness at the theme park! What were they thinking? I would have called 999 (our 911) immediately then told management. In many companies, including the many I worked at, we had disaster officers and periodic disaster drills. The system, as a whole, was tested randomly during the year. One disaster we were told was a chemical spill and had to evacuate beyond the normally designated area. The fire and rescue was called and so were EMTs and police. The whole scenario was played right out to the end with people dressed up as injured, and everyone involved were tested on their response. Other places and times it was simple fire drills, but the safety officers had to dawn the high-vis vests and hats and direct the staff to the designated safe zones.
There has been no more news on the Amtrak accident after the big splash in the news... I hate to say it, but I wouldn't expect any. Brittany Spears' dog had puppies...
John
Thank you for that interesting account on that horrific accident. Mechanical problems will occur and accidents will happen, hopefully not often but they do. What is most shocking with this, is the lack of preparedness at the theme park! What were they thinking? I would have called 999 (our 911) immediately then told management. In many companies, including the many I worked at, we had disaster officers and periodic disaster drills. The system, as a whole, was tested randomly during the year. One disaster we were told was a chemical spill and had to evacuate beyond the normally designated area. The fire and rescue was called and so were EMTs and police. The whole scenario was played right out to the end with people dressed up as injured, and everyone involved were tested on their response. Other places and times it was simple fire drills, but the safety officers had to dawn the high-vis vests and hats and direct the staff to the designated safe zones.
There has been no more news on the Amtrak accident after the big splash in the news... I hate to say it, but I wouldn't expect any. Brittany Spears' dog had puppies...
John
Can you provide the name of the roller coaster? One of the websites I have listed as my favorites is Ultimate Roller Coaster, which has info about various roller coasters in both North America and other parts of the world. Does the roller coasters have two separate trains or just individual cars? Is it wooden or steel? If you want to, you can just PM me the name.
Bill, it seems we've also had a few roller coaster incidents recently. Here's an article about a few incidents regarding roller coasters recently:
http://news.yahoo.com/2-injured-california-roller-coaster-accident-210507129.html
The roller coaster Flight Deck and Revolution I'm familiar with, however, the roller coaster Dragon Wagon I'm not familiar with. However, I suspect that the roller coaster Dragon Wagon is a roller coaster designed to be easily taken apart to be transported from one place to the other, such as from one country fair to the other.
Flight Deck was previously Top Gun, and is made by the same company that made Nemesis at Alton Towers. The trains and track are similar in design to that of Nemesis. However, I must note that the track layout of Flight Deck is not the same as Nemesis.
Revolution was the first modern roller coaster to go upside-down, hence its name Revolution. The loop, or inversion in roller coaster terms, has a diameter of 45 feet, which results in 4.9G's of force going thru the loop. 4.9G means that you will 4.9 times your normal weight when going thru the loop. However, I must note that all loops on roller coaster are not in the shape of a circle, but instead in the shape of a teardrop. If the loop was in the shape of a circle, then the G-Forces will be significantly higher.
Info on Flight Deck:
http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com/coasters/flight-deck
Info on Revolution:
http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com/coasters/revolution_sfmm
http://news.yahoo.com/2-injured-california-roller-coaster-accident-210507129.html
The roller coaster Flight Deck and Revolution I'm familiar with, however, the roller coaster Dragon Wagon I'm not familiar with. However, I suspect that the roller coaster Dragon Wagon is a roller coaster designed to be easily taken apart to be transported from one place to the other, such as from one country fair to the other.
Flight Deck was previously Top Gun, and is made by the same company that made Nemesis at Alton Towers. The trains and track are similar in design to that of Nemesis. However, I must note that the track layout of Flight Deck is not the same as Nemesis.
Revolution was the first modern roller coaster to go upside-down, hence its name Revolution. The loop, or inversion in roller coaster terms, has a diameter of 45 feet, which results in 4.9G's of force going thru the loop. 4.9G means that you will 4.9 times your normal weight when going thru the loop. However, I must note that all loops on roller coaster are not in the shape of a circle, but instead in the shape of a teardrop. If the loop was in the shape of a circle, then the G-Forces will be significantly higher.
Info on Flight Deck:
http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com/coasters/flight-deck
Info on Revolution:
http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com/coasters/revolution_sfmm
I think I know the reason behind why the girl riding Revolution was unconscious when the train returned to the station, and it has been proven by science. Not everybody can handle the same amount of Gravitational Forces, G-Force, or G's for short. Some people can handle more G's than other people. The girl was found unconscious when the train arrived at the station because she was unable to handle the 4.9 G's that she experienced while riding Revolution. I too have loss consciousness while riding a roller coaster with a loo similar to the one found on Revolution. However, as soon as the train exited the loop, I regained consciousness. Also, I was not interested in riding the roller coaster, called Mindbender, but I rode it because a member of the party offered to ride another coaster with me, which I wanted to ride, if I rode Mindbender.
Hi Jordan and everybody.
Jordan, thank you for your interest in my occupation and work, but I have to state that I am no expert in the mechanics and G forces which take place during the operation of any rollercoaster. As I stated in my posting at #15 in this thread, I was asked to attend the Staffordshire theme Park as part of the investigation into the response of the company in the immediate aftermath of the incident occurring.
In the foregoing, our duties were to investigate the training of all personnel involved with the management and operation of the ride(s) and their actions in the minutes following the accident. We also have been on site to investigate how thorough and comprehensive where the numeric, generic and dynamic risk assessments which were completed prior to the incident occurring.
So Jordan, I am afraid my part in the investigation involved carrying out the very mundane but essential enquiries which are the “bread-and-butter work” of any accident investigation. Again, as I have already stated in my posting at #15 of this thread, there were many structural engineers, software engineers, computer programmers, inertia specialists and electrical engineers just to name a few who were on site to seek out the electronics, mechanics and G forces that may have contributed to the accident occurring.
Sadly, in the last few days we have heard a second young person who was a victim of the incident has had to have her leg amputated despite hospital staff fighting to save the limb for almost three weeks. We have also been informed by the company which operates the theme Park that the ride (the latest, largest and most expensive investment at the Park) which was the centre of the incident has now been closed for an indefinite period and may never re-open. Three other rollercoasters designed along a similar system also remain closed in the United Kingdom.
The on-site investigation is now completed and it just remains for the Health and Safety Executive to now bring together all the reports from the various sections of the inquiry and encompass all that information into the final report. The foregoing will be placed before the Crown Prosecution Service if it is felt that in any way the company transgressed its legal duty of care to all those who were on site on the day of the incident.
The chief executive of the company which owns the theme Park has stated publicly (even before the investigation report is published) that they accept full responsibility for the accident and have already started to make transitional compensatory payments to all the victims involved. The CEO has also advised that the full amounts will be recompensed on conclusion of receiving the full claim receipt from the solicitors representing all those involved.
What the accident report may contain I obviously cannot comment on. However, the company chief executive has stated that “a whole new layer of operational safety has now been put in place at all of its theme Parks throughout the UK”. I believe the foregoing statement may well give a good indication in regard to what the full accident investigation report may contain.
I believe that excepting full responsibility and making compensatory payments to the victims of this incident is an important gesture by those responsible for this occurrence. I strongly believe that as the Chief Executive of Amtrak has also accepted full responsibility for the Philadelphia accident a similar immediate gesture should be made towards the victims of that incident to alleviate as far as possible the financial hardship that many of those involved will be suffering.
Bill
Jordan, thank you for your interest in my occupation and work, but I have to state that I am no expert in the mechanics and G forces which take place during the operation of any rollercoaster. As I stated in my posting at #15 in this thread, I was asked to attend the Staffordshire theme Park as part of the investigation into the response of the company in the immediate aftermath of the incident occurring.
In the foregoing, our duties were to investigate the training of all personnel involved with the management and operation of the ride(s) and their actions in the minutes following the accident. We also have been on site to investigate how thorough and comprehensive where the numeric, generic and dynamic risk assessments which were completed prior to the incident occurring.
So Jordan, I am afraid my part in the investigation involved carrying out the very mundane but essential enquiries which are the “bread-and-butter work” of any accident investigation. Again, as I have already stated in my posting at #15 of this thread, there were many structural engineers, software engineers, computer programmers, inertia specialists and electrical engineers just to name a few who were on site to seek out the electronics, mechanics and G forces that may have contributed to the accident occurring.
Sadly, in the last few days we have heard a second young person who was a victim of the incident has had to have her leg amputated despite hospital staff fighting to save the limb for almost three weeks. We have also been informed by the company which operates the theme Park that the ride (the latest, largest and most expensive investment at the Park) which was the centre of the incident has now been closed for an indefinite period and may never re-open. Three other rollercoasters designed along a similar system also remain closed in the United Kingdom.
The on-site investigation is now completed and it just remains for the Health and Safety Executive to now bring together all the reports from the various sections of the inquiry and encompass all that information into the final report. The foregoing will be placed before the Crown Prosecution Service if it is felt that in any way the company transgressed its legal duty of care to all those who were on site on the day of the incident.
The chief executive of the company which owns the theme Park has stated publicly (even before the investigation report is published) that they accept full responsibility for the accident and have already started to make transitional compensatory payments to all the victims involved. The CEO has also advised that the full amounts will be recompensed on conclusion of receiving the full claim receipt from the solicitors representing all those involved.
What the accident report may contain I obviously cannot comment on. However, the company chief executive has stated that “a whole new layer of operational safety has now been put in place at all of its theme Parks throughout the UK”. I believe the foregoing statement may well give a good indication in regard to what the full accident investigation report may contain.
I believe that excepting full responsibility and making compensatory payments to the victims of this incident is an important gesture by those responsible for this occurrence. I strongly believe that as the Chief Executive of Amtrak has also accepted full responsibility for the Philadelphia accident a similar immediate gesture should be made towards the victims of that incident to alleviate as far as possible the financial hardship that many of those involved will be suffering.
Bill
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