Airport Issues

[NJCurmudgeon]

I am trying to build a section of a layout as a busy airport. I'm using the International Airport as the basis. I have been experimenting with driver commands to get the pushback tractor to couple with an airplane at the gate, push it to a trackmark, decouple and return to the gate while the plane then navigates to another trackmark on a taxiway.

I'm having two issues:

1) The tractor couples with the plane and while I command the plane to back up to the first trackmark, hopefully pulling the tractor along with it, it just sits there. I tried it with the tractor having the command hoping it would push the plane, but it just sat there too. Eventually, all the commands disappear for both and it just sits there. Nothing appears to be frozen as I can click on stuff and move around, but it's like the vehicles just gave up.

2) While I have "decouple" checked in the list of Driver Commands, it does not appear in the drop down commands list when I go to edit the drivers. So I can't get the tractor to decouple from the plane nor the plane to decouple from the tractor.

Could this be because both units are motive power - as opposed to moving an undriveable rolling stock like a boxcar?

If anyone has any command sequences that they know works for this stuff, I'd be interested in seeing them since I'm really just doing a lot of trial and error here.

Many thanks!

 

[colourlight]

I havn't used an airport but I do have a couple of thoughts. The driver command "uncouple will only appear in the Driver Command list if it is both "ticked" and the aircraft is actually coupled to a vehicle as part of a consist. Do you have a driver in both the Aircraft and the trolley? That could be some of your problem. Also does the driver send you a message or is he struck dumb?

 

[NJCurmudgeon]

Drivers & Commands

I havn't used an airport but I do have a couple of thoughts. The driver command "uncouple will only appear in the Driver Command list if it is both "ticked" and the aircraft is actually coupled to a vehicle as part of a consist. Do you have a driver in both the Aircraft and the trolley? That could be some of your problem. Also does the driver send you a message or is he struck dumb?

Hello,

Yes, I have drivers in both and decouple is checked in the list of driver commands I want available. The tractor couples to the plane, but neither move after that, regardless of who has the command to navigate to the first trackmark. And, when I set up the commands, I don't have "decouple" as an option for either but I do have the "couple" command. Neither give me any messages and the remaining commands disappear from the bar for both. Strange!

G

 

[colourlight]

decouple can only be used when driver,s plane is part of a consist. Couple is available at any time. Remove one driver and try issuing a drive command, Should I say pilot?

 

[seeseeme]

Hi NJCurmudgeon,

I basically had this working some time ago. First your DeCouple command needs to be ticked in the Drivers Command section for it to work.

Now you only need 1 Driver and he starts in the Push Tractor.

* He couples to the plane and pushes it back to a trackmark (whatever you have).

* Then a stop Command.

* Decouple

* Push Tractor returns to its starting position.

* Then the command for the Driver to change "locos" (off hand I can not remember the correct name) and change/move the driver to the plane.

* The plane the follows the commands you have set up for it.

Remember this is all set up for one driver.

Let us know how you go as it is a little hard to get right the first time.

Craig

 

[stagecoach]

Download uncouplez from the dls, this shows up in surveyor unlike the others. Two drivers cant be connected as one will lose all its commands. The move to train wont work either as the commands dont go with the driver when he changes. You need to download move to train at TM command on the dls, this one allows a driver to take his commands from one train to another.

 

[Lewiscc65]

Craig has it right. I use a bus in the parking lot to hold the plane driver till the pusher uncouples from the plane. It hits a trigger on the way back to parking and the plane driver moves to the plane and starts it's run. That way there is not a long lag time till the plane takes off. PM me if ou want a little demo.
Carl

 

[NJCurmudgeon]

Update

Thank you to everyone who replied to this thread!

Having the single driver switching from the tractor to the plane worked. But now I have two specific questions:

1) I'm still unclear as to how the trackmarks work in terms of which way the arrow is pointing and how it effects where specifically the vehicle stops. My first try left the plane on top of a switch, for example. And the tractor stopped short of the trackmark I set for it to return to after decoupling (it would be in the path of the plane returning to the gate later).

2) Is the "Waiting for Track Clearance" a random thing? The first couple of experiments went okay aside from tweaking the positions of trackmarks. But then all of a sudden with nothing else really changed, it stopped and notified it was waiting for track clearance. There were no other vehicles on the track and the switches were set correctly. I was wondering if this was something that happens to introduce realistic unplanned delays (maybe their modelling it after New Jersey Transit! ). Or is it an actual problem?

And the "Decouple" command, while I do have the green check mark by it in the Driver Commands menus, it still doesn't appear in the drop-down menu for the drivers. Decouplz did, so I used that, but I wonder why plan old "decouple" doesn't seem to want to work?

Thanks again everyone!!

Gordon

 

[stagecoach]

TM's will vary with all rolling stock. The radius of a TM is 20m default, so as soon as the object is in range it will react. Where it stops depends on speed and the braking power of the object. So it is guess work for the better part it.

 

[seeseeme]

Hi Gordon,

This may help you;

1. In Surveyor under the Tab where you pick your trackmark at the bottom is an "advanced" selection. Choose this and then you can change the default radius of the trackmark from 20m to anything. From memory I think I used 0.10m for mine which means the plane/push tractor will stop much closer to the trackmark. I do not think the direction of the trackmark really makes any difference.

2. I am going to guess that your plane and eventually push tractor ends up on a "dead end" piece of track and this may cause you problems as the AI does not see it as a "dead end". There is an invisible signal I use to fix this problem, kuid2:53425:10001:1 - Signal Invisible, and I place it at the very end of the "Dead end" piece of invisible track.

3. You mention in another thread about the speed of the planes and I have seen this too (I tested many of Vulcan's planes for him). The way I got around this is to place a piece of track as a junction somewhere just before the take-off track. Use an invisible junction controller and make sure it is set correctly in Surveyor. The additional piece of track need not to go anywhere but I have seen when the plane hits this junction it's speed increases to the set speed sign limit.

Hope this helps.

Craig

 

[NJCurmudgeon]

Hi Craig,

Thanks for the reply. I will definitely have to check that out. When I read Stagecoach's answer (thanks to you too!) I was going to ask how to change the radius. I do think that may be part of the problem. I had a direction marker on a track nearby and when I moved it, it fixed a problem with the other track. And yes, in some gates I have a deadend that I back the plane into for kind of a "Y" turn. I'll have to do some more experimenting!

Many thanks!

 

[NJCurmudgeon]

Well, all the suggestions seem to have worked so far (thank you!) except for the airplane speed. I added the junction and while it did speed up, it slowed down again not long after take off. Frustrating!

 

[Lewiscc65]

You need to make sure the flight path is clear and there are a few speed signs along the way. AI will look ahead after the take off speeds and see the landing speed and it will slow down some.

 

[NJCurmudgeon]

Good point. When I was doing some initial experiments, I had a relatively short length of track beyond the runway for the flight path. I put a temporary trackmark to give it a destination before going to the trouble of building the rest of the loop. The plane went very slow. When I extended that, however, I noticed the speed did increase. Is there a rule of thumb as to placing speed limits? Like within each length between spline joints? Thanks!

 

[Lewiscc65]

Not really. I place them every couple of miles. If you just have a loop place one when the plane reaches full height and another high speed one about a mile before the landing approach.

 

[NJCurmudgeon]

Thanks Lewiscc65. That's seems to have worked for the speeds.

The problem I now have is this...I had a 737 coming out of Gate 5 of the International Airport. I added a pushback tractor that I can make work up to the point where I want it to return to the gate so I can switch the driver to the 737. There is no return position for tractors in the "Navigate To" menu - or for any of the gates on that side. So, I added a trackmark and tell the tractor to return to that point. I have a 0.05 radius, so it's very tight. But the tractor comes nearby and then says it's waiting for track clearance and just sits there.

Before I added the tractor, the 737 alone backed out, turned around and headed out to the runway just fine.

By contrast, I have a 747 out of Gate 2 with the pushback tractor that works, with the main difference being that gate has a specified return position for the tractor. The problem is that the 737 has to go out first to hit a trigger that tells the 747 to take off.

Now, I could probably just take the tractor off the 737 and be fine with that. The airport is part of a planned much larger layout with trains that will be the focus. So as long as when the train gets near the airport (both passengers and to deliver goods/fuel), so long as the planes are moving and taking off/landing it should look dynamic from the vantage point of the trains coming in and out. I'm not sure I would even see the tractor from the train, so maybe I can do without it.

Nevertheless, I am still curious why this isn't working since I can apply what I'm learning here to the rest of the layout.

Thanks for the help, guys!

 

[Lewiscc65]

Try an invisible signal at the end of the track. If you already have one there you need to use invisible track and increase the distance from the track mark to the end of the track.

 

[NJCurmudgeon]

Hi Lewiscc65,

Nope. Didn't work. I should point out that since the last time you suggested the invisible signal that I changed from a dead-end track "Y" turn track. I added an inbound track to the formerly dead-end for when the plane lands and returns to the gate. I made sure that the trackmark I am telling the pushback tractor and plane to go to clears the junction switch by a wide margin and I reduced the radius to 0.05. The switch it needs to pass through is set in its favor, so that's not it. I've tried this with an invisible signal thrown behind the trackmark and without, but the effect is the same. It stops short and notifies that it's waiting for track clearance.

It's frustrating to the point where this game is no longer very much fun and I may just remove it from the computer and go back to frickin' solitaire! Ugh,

 

[NJCurmudgeon]

I should also add that this track arrangement works when it is just the plane alone with no tractor. Something is getting messed up when the tractor comes into play.

 

[sniper297]

Trying to get two locos to couple onto each other then uncouple and operate independently afterwards strikes me as something Trainz MIGHT be able to do - but horribly complicated to set up and debug. I've used uncouplez from and couple at trackmark to get AI locos to drop off an pick up cars in a yard, even without the additional complication of locos uncoupling from other locos it took a lot of tinkering to get it working.

PON_Dwarf_Signal_USA_L02_Permissive,<kuid:522774:100020>
PON_Dwarf_Signal_USA_02_Permissive,<kuid:522774:100021>

Those two were created specifically for the problem you're talking about, sometimes the AI pickup loco will do as it's told and couple at trackmark to whatever car is at the trackmark, other times it refuses to enter the yard track until the train it's supposed to couple onto clears the track - which of course it's not gonna do because it has no engine and it's supposed to be there for the AI pickup to couple onto, how does it expect to couple onto something and at the same time refuse to approach it? So I said the hell with it and made the permissive dwarf signals, used those at yard entrances so I don't get that kind of lunacy - it's red because the train you're supposed to couple onto is in there, but it's okay, the signal is permissive, nobody will yell at you, go ahead into the yard. :hehe:

For your purposes some kind of invisible permissive signal maybe?

Curious, if all you're looking for is an operating airport as animated background scenery, have you tried;

Industry Airport,<kuid:-3:10043>

Built in to TS2010, but it's a 2004 build number and should work in 2009.