AI Approaching Junction

[Nickb4a]

When an AI train approaches a junction that joins to its line, if the junction is thrown against it then it stops at its signal which reads "Line ahead is unsignalled". After it stops, the switch is thrown in the correct direction, the light clears, and the train continues. Is there a way to prevent this from happening? How can I get the AI to throw the switches in the correct direction from joining tracks and not stop? I would include a picture, but can't figure out how to embed.

 

[fran1]

Self explanatory, your short of signals.
Go into surveyor, place a loco at the signal, place a signal where you think it should be so's you dont get the message, check the original signal, if no message it's sorted. Dont forget to delete the loco before saving.

 

[Nickb4a]

I understand the signalling, but what I don't understand is why the AI train doesn't set the points until stopping.

 

[fran1]

Because the signalling is not correct. Any Ai will stop at a signal in that respect even mine.

 

[Dap]

. . . if the junction is thrown against it then it stops at its signal which reads "Line ahead is unsignalled". . .

Put some more signals on the line ahead and your problem should be solved.

 

[Mick_Berg]

What's happening on my route is even worse. Every signal stays at red (actually on, they're semaphores) until the train is right up close to it. Even on a fast stretch of line with no junctions, an express train slows down to a crawl at every signal. It's awful, what can I do to fix it? BTW it doesn't happen with colour light signals, and it didn't happen in TC3.

I'm very disappointed, my plan to put ECML back in the steam age is not going well because of this. So help would be appreciated. The signal positions are the same as in original ECML, I've just changed them to semaphores.

Thanks,
Mick Berg.

 

[Torchy85]

What's happening on my route is even worse. Every signal stays at red (actually on, they're semaphores) until the train is right up close to it. Even on a fast stretch of line with no junctions, an express train slows down to a crawl at every signal. It's awful, what can I do to fix it? BTW it doesn't happen with colour light signals, and it didn't happen in TC3.

I'm very disappointed, my plan to put ECML back in the steam age is not going well because of this. So help would be appreciated. The signal positions are the same as in original ECML, I've just changed them to semaphores.

Thanks,
Mick Berg.

Not sure but it might be something to do with changing the signals to Semaphores. I think that the signaling with these is slightly different and operate on a 2 block system i.e. look an extra signal forward due to Semaphores were on short block length.
Which Semaphore signals have you used to replace Light signals? If you used the 'new' type it may be possible to change the Semaphore signals from these to older ones that work on same type system as used in original route. Failing that only thing I can think of might be to put an invisible signal a short distance in front of each Semaphore, see if that solves problem.
Anyway wish you luck with your retro age route, there's something magical about a Steam!

Pete

 

[Bill69]

If you are running a double track route you can add signals to run a block system but if you are running a single track route extra signals are not possible, other wise you will have two trains meeting head to head at some point. For a single track route place a trackmark that he has an order to drive via a few metres past each signal, this will force the AI to search past the singnal for his next waypoint and the signal will change much earlier.

Cheers,
Bill69

 

[Mick_Berg]

If you are running a double track route you can add signals to run a block system but if you are running a single track route extra signals are not possible, other wise you will have two trains meeting head to head at some point.

The route is a chopped down version of ECML SP2. No single track running except the ramp which goes up (and down) from Belle Isle.

For a single track route place a trackmark that he has an order to drive via a few metres past each signal, this will force the AI to search past the singnal for his next waypoint and the signal will change much earlier.
Cheers,
Bill69

I won't have to deal with this, but imagine having to put down a trackmark just to get a train to pass a signal! What a mess!

Strangely I have found the the problem stops north of New Southgate, and for a few miles the signals change soon enough to allow the train to run at full speed. But then something makes it go back to the "all signals at stop" mode. I will investigate more thoroughly.

Thanks for the suggestions,

Mick Berg.

 

[Bill69]

The route is a chopped down version of ECML SP2. No single track running except the ramp which goes up (and down) from Belle Isle.



I won't have to deal with this, but imagine having to put down a trackmark just to get a train to pass a signal! What a mess!

Strangely I have found the the problem stops north of New Southgate, and for a few miles the signals change soon enough to allow the train to run at full speed. But then something makes it go back to the "all signals at stop" mode. I will investigate more thoroughly.

Thanks for the suggestions,

Mick Berg.

Hi Mick,

No mess on a single track system because for single track you can only have one signal protecting the start of the single section and one direction signal at the end of the section.
I don't have ECML but check your AI drivers instructions where the signals work properly and compare them with the instructions where signals are red. As I said before it is all to do with trackmark and instruction set up.

Cheers,
Bill69

 

[Kennilworth]

Hi Mick

In my experience the problem of trains slowing at semaphore signals is due to the path not being set far enough ahead. I ran into this problem when programming the S&C with SCS2006. It was cured by setting the path for two blocks ahead.

I think that what is happening is that the path isn't being set for the next block section so the signal controlling the entry into that section is at red. In real life the signalman could hold a signal at red and once he was sure that the train was under control he could clear the signal and allow the train to proceed slowly to the next home signal. In effect it was used in a similar way to a calling on signal. As the colour light signals aren't scripted in the same way you do not get this problem with them.

In a semaphore block section when the loco slows to about 7 mph the signal will clear and allow the train to proceed with caution to the next signal. I think that you need to find a way to force the path to be set for at least 2 blocks ahead to cure the problem. The signalling guide on the Trainz Classics website has an explanation of how it all works.

Regards

Brian

 

[Mick_Berg]

Well, I seem to have cured the problem by adding more signals, as was suggested. I added an invisible signal midway between all the existing signals.

Having done this, it doesn't seem to matter if the path is very long. I can set a path to say Hatfield from Kings Cross (about fifty miles I suppose) and the train will get there. There have to be some extra trackmarks in a couple of places to stop the train veering off onto the slow line for no apparent reason.

Hopefully I can now add some distant signals, if I can work out where the signalling blocks are. I wish I knew more about it!

Thanks for everyone's input,
Mick Berg.

 

[Bill69]

There is one other thing that I didn't think of before, the default setting of junctions. Generally I have all main line junctions defaulting to the main line, this means a mainline train will have clearance through the junction and any train on the branch line will have to change the points, so it follows that a mainline train should always get a green signal unless a branch line train has claimed a section of the main line less than two blocks ahead.

Cheers,
Bill69

 

[Mick_Berg]

There is one other thing that I didn't think of before, the default setting of junctions. Generally I have all main line junctions defaulting to the main line, this means a mainline train will have clearance through the junction and any train on the branch line will have to change the points, so it follows that a mainline train should always get a green signal unless a branch line train has claimed a section of the main line less than two blocks ahead.

Cheers,
Bill69

I agree that it should, but that isn't always the case. I've checked the default positions of the junctions where the train "veers off", and in Surveyor they are set for the main line, some mysterious force resets them and the train leaves the main line unless it is kept on the straight and narrow by an extra trackmark.
Mick Berg.

 

[Torchy85]

Well, I seem to have cured the problem by adding more signals, as was suggested. I added an invisible signal midway between all the existing signals.

Having done this, it doesn't seem to matter if the path is very long. I can set a path to say Hatfield from Kings Cross (about fifty miles I suppose) and the train will get there. There have to be some extra trackmarks in a couple of places to stop the train veering off onto the slow line for no apparent reason.

Hopefully I can now add some distant signals, if I can work out where the signalling blocks are. I wish I knew more about it!

Thanks for everyone's input,
Mick Berg.

Okay since my idea of adding invisible signals seems to have worked and you want to add Distant signals try replacing the invisible signals with Distant ones. You might want to adjust distance between Distant & Home signals depending how close/far apart they are.

Pete

 

[Bill69]

I agree that it should, but that isn't always the case. I've checked the default positions of the junctions where the train "veers off", and in Surveyor they are set for the main line, some mysterious force resets them and the train leaves the main line unless it is kept on the straight and narrow by an extra trackmark.
Mick Berg.

Hi Mick,

Could it be that where the train leaves the main line there is a shorter way to it's destination? The AI will always take the shortest route unless it is prevented from doing so by a drive via trackmark command. This goes right back to trainz 1.3.

Cheers,
Bill69

 

[shaneturner12]

It may also be worth using Priority markers (priority 3) on the lines you do not want mainline traffic using, then use something like Set Priority to specify which trains should use the priority 3 line.

Shane

 

[Ian_Coleman]

I always understood that Priority 3 is the highest priority, not the lowest!

Ian

 

[shaneturner12]

Actually it's the other way round - Priority 1 is the highest.

Trains, by default, use Priority 2 unless told otherwise by setting their properties (for manually placed trains) or by using a driver command (for portal trains)

Shane

 

[trev999]

Actually it's the other way round - Priority 1 is the highest.
Shane

I'm sorry, but you are both wrong. Priority doesn't have a highest or lowest.

All it means is that if the track is set for one priority (e.g. P1) then a train with priority 1 will try to use the P1 track rather than other priority tracks.
If the track is not clear then it will choose another one.

Trevor