Trainz 2010 - DirectX problem

A

apeliver

New member
Hy Guys!

My Trainz 2010 is unable to launch in DirectX mode. It crashes every time.
I can start it only in OpenGL mode, but the game is too slow in this mode.

A part from the error log: "trainz caused an Access Violation (0xc0000005)
in module RenderDirectX9_7c.dll at 001b:013d08d8".

I have the 2010 EE with SP1 (b. 41615).

My specs: Windows 7 Ultimate 32 bit, AMD Dual Core 7750, 4GB RAM, Radeon HD4850 1GB, and Win7 uses DX10 of course.

Anyone could help? THX!
 
Although I am not a TS2010 user, I think it may be worth trying 2 things:

1.Installing/updating your DirectX 9.0C - DirectX 10 and DirectX 11 are not backwards compatible with DirectX 9.0C. (instructions for doing this are at http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=58843)
2.If this does not resolve the problem, it may be worth installing SP2 and possibly SP3 for TS2010.

Shane

EDIT: I have noticed you may have not registered your TS2010 yet - this will be required to install the patches and to download content.
 
Last edited:
shaneturner12 said:
DirectX 10 and DirectX 11 are not backwards compatible with DirectX 9.0C.
Click to expand...


So DirectX 10 and 11 are not backwards compatible with DirectX 9.0c, since when?

As explained by a [FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Microsoft Support Engineer -[/FONT]

“[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Directx 11 is inbuilt in windows 7. You do not need to install DX9.0C. DX11 is a superset of DX10.0/10.1, both of which are backwards-compatible with DX9.0C in the sense that DX9.0C software and hardware can run non-DX10/11 code. For this reason you do not install DX9.0C on Vista either, as it is "emulated".[/FONT]
 
What they may not have realised at Microsoft, is when they release updates for 9.0C, it does not automatically translate into an update for DirectX 10/11, hence the requirement for DirectX 9.0C. (DirectX 10/11, although part of Windows Vista/7, unfortunately do not have the correct compatibility for games like Trainz (and also, if you do read the microsoft download page, it says something along the lines of 'this update is for DirectX 9.0C and earlier versions' (note 'earlier')

Also, DirectX 10/11 changed something that older games (and even some newer ones) cannot properly use (and anyway, an 'emulated' DirectX is not as good in gaming terms as the actual product)

These are my thoughts on this, but other people may see it differently.

Shane
 
I bow to Shanes’ superior knowledge on DirectX. However in respect of trainz, I think he over simplifies the issue. I have run TRS2006/TRS2009 under DirectX 10 with no problems. Now whatever anyone may say; TRS2010 is a step forward and as such is far more critical of things that it cannot work with; until Auran and Microsoft actually talk to each other then this is always going to be a problem. Anyway what harm does it do to have DirectX 9c loaded on a Windows 7 computer? Only programs that need 9c are going to use it; anything that needs DirectX 10/11 will use them. How can that be wrong? I cannot see where there is a conflict; but maybe I am missing something?

Belkenn
:confused:
 
I agree there - it seems that the DirectX issue is partly due to the service packs for TS2009/TS2010, and partly due to the way Microsoft have designed DirectX 10/11. I have had to simplify parts of the issue to explain it to people who may not know a lot about DirectX.


Coincidentally, I have both DirectX 11 and DirectX 9.0C installed. By the seems of things, DirectX 10/11 is graphics card dependent - only games that are 'top-notch' normally need DirectX 10/11 - most run on DirectX 9.0C - and no, I am not encountering any conflicts. (The installer for Trainz products (TRS2006+) even offers to install DirectX 9)

Shane

EDIT: Take this for interesting info: 'While Windows 7 is fully compatible with games and hardware that use older versions of DirectX, the new DirectX 11 features are available with a DirectX 11 compatible graphics card and games designed to take advantage of this new technology.' (from http://www.microsoft.com/games/en-us/aboutgfw/pages/directx.aspx)
 
shaneturner12 said:
What they may not have realised at Microsoft, is when they release updates for 9.0C, it does not automatically translate into an update for DirectX 10/11, hence the requirement for DirectX 9.0C. (DirectX 10/11, although part of Windows Vista/7, unfortunately do not have the correct compatibility for games like Trainz (and also, if you do read the microsoft download page, it says something along the lines of 'this update is for DirectX 9.0C and earlier versions' (note 'earlier')

Also, DirectX 10/11 changed something that older games (and even some newer ones) cannot properly use (and anyway, an 'emulated' DirectX is not as good in gaming terms as the actual product)

These are my thoughts on this, but other people may see it differently.

Shane
Click to expand...




I've never come across one issue running any of the 15 or so DirectX 9 or 8 games/sims I have on Vista or Windows 7. In addition I've been running TRS2006, 2009 and TS2010 without any problems on Vista and Windows 7 for years without anything more than running the DirectX updates when available.


On a fresh Vista or Windows 7 OS all I do is install the latest redistributable followed by the web install to make sure I've got any updates to DirectX 9, 10 or 11 since the redistributable release.
 
belkenn said:
I bow to Shanes’ superior knowledge on DirectX.
Click to expand...



With the comments made here I wouldn't consider it a show of “superior knowledge on DirectX”. About 15 minutes of research on DirectX will prove that as does the statement from the [FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Microsoft Support Engineer. [/FONT]



I have run TRS2006/TRS2009 under DirectX 10 with no problems. ​
Click to expand...



and since TRS2006/TRS2009 are DirectX 9 games the reason why you are running “with no problems” is because of DirectX backward compatibility.
 
How have you been running Trainz in any form on Windows 7 for years? DJT
It’s not been out that long or maybe you know something we don’t

Belkenn
:eek:
 
belkenn said:
How have you been running Trainz in any form on Windows 7 for years? DJT
It’s not been out that long or maybe you know something we don’t

Belkenn
:eek:
Click to expand...




Simple, it's called Vista, which is what Windows 7 is based on. In addition I've been using Windows 7 since it was still in beta.
 
After some further research, I have read that the 'backward compatibility' with DirectX 10/11 is limited. Basically, it only uses backward compatibility for Direct3D, for the basic features required (just read the MS website if you don't believe me)

Shane
 
djt you have windows 7 ultamute annd im on my bro,s profile i live in the usa i have vista nothing wrong with my trainz 2009 remind you some stuff later!!!!:cool:
 
djt,

Direct3D is only 1 part of the DirectX system - some of the features that games like Trainz use were stripped from DirectX 10/11.

Most people are not using the Ultimate version of Windows 7, which has Windows XP mode for games like Trainz. As I said before though, Microsoft is releasing the updates for DirectX 9.0C (and earlier), not for DirectX 10 or DirectX 11.

Shane
 
shaneturner12 said:
djt,

Direct3D is only 1 part of the DirectX system - some of the features that games like Trainz use were stripped from DirectX 10/11.

Shane
Click to expand...



So are you telling us that a “Direct3D” application is NOT a “DirectX” application?




some of the features that games like Trainz use were stripped from.​
Click to expand...



You'll have to go into more detail about what features were supposedly “stripped from DirectX 10/11”.​



Most people are not using the Ultimate version of Windows 7, which has Windows XP mode for games like Trainz.​
Click to expand...



Who's using XP mode to run “games like Trainz”? Since when is using XP compatibility mode a requirement for running Trainz on Vista or Windows 7?​




As I said before though, Microsoft is releasing the updates for DirectX 9.0C (and earlier), not for DirectX 10 or DirectX 11.​
Click to expand...




Are you now telling us that the DirectX update redistributable and the DirectX update “web installer” doesn't provide updates for the DirectX 10/11 libraries?​
 
I will answer each question/comment individually.

1.I said that Direct3D is part of DirectX, not a replacement.
2.Once I have done some further research I will be able to answer this question - most of the stripped features are .NET Framework related, or relating to older hardware drivers.
3.That s anyone's guess - most people only post their main OS.
4. Read http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...38-db71-4c1b-bc6a-9b6652cd92a3&displaylang=en to see what I mean about this. (It's at the top of the page)

Shane
 
1.I said that Direct3D is part of DirectX, not a replacement.​
Click to expand...



I wasn't asking whether it was a replacement I was asking whether you consider a Direct3D application as being a DirectX application? In other words would a game that uses Direct3D be considered as a game that uses DirectX?



2.Once I have done some further research I will be able to answer this question - most of the stripped features are .NET Framework related, or relating to older hardware drivers.​
Click to expand...



and this has to do with DirectX updates how?



That s anyone's guess - most people only post their main OS.​
Click to expand...



I don't run Trainz or any of my other older games in XP compatibility mode on Vista or Windows 7 so I wouldn't know.





Read http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en to see what I mean about this. (It's at the top of the page)​
Click to expand...



Did you ever look closely at what's being updated when you run the DirectX update redistributable?


Does it not show DirectX 10 and 11 files being updated when you run the executable?
 
As I've already said, different people have different opinions.

Direct3D applications can be classed as DirectX applications, as Direct3D is part of DirectX.

The reason that the stripped features is update-related is that some of the MDX (Managed DirectX) features (which Trainz uses) were discontinued in 2006, although they still appear in DirectX updates - most of the time, the effect of DirectX updates are hardware dependent (and even game-dependent) - I have a feeling that a .DLL file (RenderDirectX_7c.dll) may be the one that determines which version of DirectX is required.

As for the Windows XP mode, we may never know how many people actually use it for games.

As for the updates themselves, the Microsoft download page is probably to blame if the update does in fact provide DirectX 10/11 updates.

As I've always said, different people see DirectX issues differently, so I do not want o cause any commotion or similar - I am simply here to help people who do encounter the patcher error message requesting them to update DirectX 9.0C (probably due to some code in the patcher that checks the DirectX version, just like it does with the XP version)

Shane
 
As I've always said, different people see DirectX issues differently, so I do not want o cause any commotion or similar​
Click to expand...



Shane,​


Actually it's the misconceptions that have “different people seeing DirectX issues differently”. I think what caused “commotion or similar” is the statement that


Installing/updating your DirectX 9.0C - DirectX 10 and DirectX 11 are not backwards compatible with DirectX 9.0C.​
Click to expand...



which is of course not true.



By the way if you are interested in some self education as far as DirectX is concerned you should get into one of Microsoft's tech forums -




http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/categories/




http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/forum.asp?forum_id=10
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M
Trainz CTD with directX mode
Replies
6
Views
2K
shaneturner12
S
C
Strange colored screen on TANE Start up
Replies
1
Views
949
butler57
B
I
Problems with ATI Card, please help
Replies
13
Views
4K
fran1
F
K
Problems With The Trainz 2 Pack: 2010 Wont Install,2009 Wont Run
Replies
1
Views
1K
shaneturner12
S
C
Whats The best course of action to return to Trainz?
2
Replies
23
Views
7K
class158
C
Back
Top