Can a PDF be included in a CDP for upload to the DLS?

I'm currently working on a number of models of high level/elevated stations and viaducts to UK standards with the aim of enabling a complete system to be built.

Due to the nature of these assets, I think a short tutorial will be needed. Clearly it could be included as a 'read me' file, but I think a PDF would be better.

Can anyone advise me whether a PDF can be included in a CDP for upload, or would it be excluded from the process of making a CDP in CM?

Many thanks for any help.

Ray

I've been known to zip a file then give it a .txt extension that works fine. You just have to make it clear in the file name what it is.

renamemetoziptogetthepdf.txt for example.

Cheerio John

My opinion is that documentation belongs in the game or on the wiki, not hidden in the CDP file. We don't expect most users to open up each asset to find out how to use it.

John's suggestion is definitely a no-no. If you have a file with a .txt extension, it should be a text file (ascii or UTF8 encoded.) Likewise, something with .jpg should be a jpeg. Doing anything else is just asking to have your content rejected in a future update of the validation tool.

chris

WindWalkr said:

My opinion is that documentation belongs in the game or on the wiki, not hidden in the CDP file. We don't expect most users to open up each asset to find out how to use it.

John's suggestion is definitely a no-no. If you have a file with a .txt extension, it should be a text file (ascii or UTF8 encoded.) Likewise, something with .jpg should be a jpeg. Doing anything else is just asking to have your content rejected in a future update of the validation tool.

chris

Click to expand...

Occasionally to support a tutorial I have been known to include the .blend source file. How would you suggest this could be done?

Thanks John

ray_whiley said:

Due to the nature of these assets, I think a short tutorial will be needed. Clearly it could be included as a 'read me' file, but I think a PDF would be better.

Click to expand...

Plenty of 'complicated' assets have what amount to small tutorials included in the in-game pop-up associated with the '?' key, would this not be better solution?

Andy

WindWalkr said:

My opinion is that documentation belongs in the game or on the wiki, not hidden in the CDP file. We don't expect most users to open up each asset to find out how to use it.

John's suggestion is definitely a no-no. If you have a file with a .txt extension, it should be a text file (ascii or UTF8 encoded.) Likewise, something with .jpg should be a jpeg. Doing anything else is just asking to have your content rejected in a future update of the validation tool.

chris

Click to expand...

Chris
I like doing maps of my routes in pdf format which gives me a much better resolution than a .jpg does. How do you suggest that I can provide a better looking map of my route if jpg is my only choice? I refer to these maps all of the time when I'm setting up sessions for my routes or just running trains and want to see a map in front of me while running my train.

When I was new to uploading, I thought that these pdf's got uploaded with the cdp, but apparently I was wrong. I've had a few members email me for the pdf files and I have gladly sent them along, but having them included with the upload would be helpful.

Mike

Many thanks to all who have contributed. Clearly it would be best to keep documentation away from the CDP and to refer in the description visible on the DLS to where it can be found (for example, pointing to a page on my website), or in the in-game 'pop-up' via the '?' key. I just need to find out how to do the latter - I'll look for a tutorial.

Ray

johnwhelan said:

Occasionally to support a tutorial I have been known to include the .blend source file. How would you suggest this could be done?

Click to expand...

I assume by "tutorial" you mean "content creation tutorial" rather than "in-game tutorial."

If that's the case, then my suggestion is that you should host the tutorial on an appropriate site (you're welcome to use our wiki, but it's certainly not the only choice) and provide the support files from there.

It's worth considering whether the tutorial asset should be on the DLS to start with if it's intended only as a tutorial and not as a serious asset. If you're not uploading to the DLS then you can simply use zip format and keep any related content, PDFs, tutorial text, etc. separate from the asset folder. First poster appears to be referring to the DLS specifically.

chris

leeferr said:

I like doing maps of my routes in pdf format which gives me a much better resolution than a .jpg does. How do you suggest that I can provide a better looking map of my route if jpg is my only choice?

Click to expand...

I think you're confused about a few different things here.

* Nobody has suggested that JPG is your only choice for images. Trainz also supports TGA and BMP.

* JPG does not have a "lower resolution" than PDF. I assume that what you mean is that the jpeg compression doesn't suit your images particularly well. You could consider increasing the resolution or upping the quality of the compression that you are using for the jpegs. Alternatively, if you really need a lossless result, you could consider switching to BMPs.

* Finally, the game can't display PDFs anyway, so it sounds like you're talking about including files into an asset which won't be used by the game. This is a no-no. If you feel that your asset (route, loco, whatever) is complicated enough that the end-user needs additional help, then you should be attempting to provide that help in-game. Usually this comes down to creating an associated HTML page and providing a mechanism for the end-user to display that page. This can sometimes be external to the asset in question, as per the info-url tag or it can be a function of the asset itself.

chris

WindWalkr said:

I think you're confused about a few different things here.

* Nobody has suggested that JPG is your only choice for images. Trainz also supports TGA and BMP.

* JPG does not have a "lower resolution" than PDF. I assume that what you mean is that the jpeg compression doesn't suit your images particularly well. You could consider increasing the resolution or upping the quality of the compression that you are using for the jpegs. Alternatively, if you really need a lossless result, you could consider switching to BMPs.

* Finally, the game can't display PDFs anyway, so it sounds like you're talking about including files into an asset which won't be used by the game. This is a no-no. If you feel that your asset (route, loco, whatever) is complicated enough that the end-user needs additional help, then you should be attempting to provide that help in-game. Usually this comes down to creating an associated HTML page and providing a mechanism for the end-user to display that page. This can sometimes be external to the asset in question, as per the info-url tag or it can be a function of the asset itself.

chris

Click to expand...

Chris
I appreciate the reply and I understand what you're talking about, but I'm not looking for something 'in-game'. As I'm setting up a session, I like to have a printed map of the route in front of me to help me in my planning and it would certainly help me set up sessions for a route that I'm not really familiar with. I've tried .bmp, .tga and jpg's and none of them will give me what I'm looking for. Maybe it's just that I don't know how to do it and I'll look into that. I generally create my route maps in a CAD program that I use and print them to a pdf file that give me a really nice looking map. I haven't been able to get the same resolution quality with other file formats, but as I said, maybe I haven't experimented enough. My real point is that I'd like to be able to include a map of the route that is not necessarily for use 'in-game'. Readme files are used in-game, so I'm not sure what the harm is in having additional files that also aren't used in-game.

Mike

leeferr said:

..but I'm not looking for something 'in-game'. As I'm setting up a session, I like to have a printed map of the route in front of me to help me in my planning and it would certainly help me set up sessions for a route that I'm not really familiar with.

Click to expand...

Then do what you will, but keep that separate from the game assets.

My real point is that I'd like to be able to include a map of the route that is not necessarily for use 'in-game'. Readme files are used in-game, so I'm not sure what the harm is in having additional files that also aren't used in-game.

Click to expand...

My point is that the CDP archives consist only of in-game files. If you want to create additional content for out-of-game consumption and place it online somewhere (your website, our wiki, somewhere else..) then that's fine. But don't put it into the CDP files.

"Hiding" a file within a CDP, then expecting the end-user of your content to (1) know to look there, (2) know how to edit your content, (3) know what to do with it once they find it, and (4) not mess things up in the process, is a bit much.

To me, it's a bit like shipping a computer with the instruction manuals screwed inside the case. Written in Braille. With nothing telling the user that they should open the computer up and look inside. I get that some people have done this in the past, and I get that for a small handful of people, it's been beneficial, but most people are missing out when this approach is used and it's those people that we care about.

There are other solutions that don't involve these problems. It's up to you which one best suits your needs.

chris

Hi every one;

I too feel that one of the things missing in Trainz is a easy way for the route creator to add information.
Many of the routes would be much more interesting with a short history or other information.

I create fictional routes and make up a history for them. My big route has a text file of 28KB/an4800 words describing it. In TRS2004 I attempted to get it into the route using TRS's excuse for HTML but was never able to get it working to my satisfaction.

What I would like to see is an option in the surveyor menu,

Add information file

When you select the option a file select box opens showing the allowed file types.

On the route selection screens have a button alongside the route's name labelled 'Info', when the user clicks that button Windows opens the default program that can display that file type ( No need for Trainz to have the ability to open the file ).

What I am trying to say is to keep it simple enough so that the average user with no experience in programming or scripting can add information to their route.

Lindsay

Put your information in a full page HTML and set it to open at the commencement of the session or as a result of the train passing a trigger. If you have Northbay County, the sessions on that use that principle.

On the DHR, we show several successive information screens while the route is loading and also many information screens triggered by the train during the session.

Peter

Twodorgs said:

Hi every one;

I too feel that one of the things missing in Trainz is a easy way for the route creator to add information.
Many of the routes would be much more interesting with a short history or other information.

I create fictional routes and make up a history for them. My big route has a text file of 28KB/an4800 words describing it. In TRS2004 I attempted to get it into the route using TRS's excuse for HTML but was never able to get it working to my satisfaction.

What I would like to see is an option in the surveyor menu,

Add information file

When you select the option a file select box opens showing the allowed file types.

On the route selection screens have a button alongside the route's name labelled 'Info', when the user clicks that button Windows opens the default program that can display that file type ( No need for Trainz to have the ability to open the file ).

What I am trying to say is to keep it simple enough so that the average user with no experience in programming or scripting can add information to their route.

Lindsay

Click to expand...

This would be useful for instructions for building certain "kits", such as those by Ben Dorsey, that have multiple parts and require assembly before they're useful on a route. Perhaps this tool could also be used to display the description information for assets while in Surveyor so that we don't have to memorize what's displayed about them while viewing them in Content Manager.

Auran almost got this right with the useless RailYard module.

John

So using the rename-.zip-to-.txt trick to include source files of my assets in the assets' CDPs is not a good idea then.

What would be a good free web hosting service, with the ability to host files like ZIP archives on the site, plus a decent file size limit, file storage capacity, bandwith, etc., for me to make a website to host source files on? MediaFire is out of the question.

Regards,

Retro.

JCitron said:

Perhaps this tool could also be used to display the description information for assets while in Surveyor so that we don't have to memorize what's displayed about them while viewing them in Content Manager.

Click to expand...

Exactly. I'd suggest checking out the 'info-url' tag, as linked above. It's a starting point.

chris

I seem to have triggered a discussion which ranged more broadly than my original request for advice.

My previous way of giving information about a group of assets which can be or should be used together has been to include a 'read me' file in the original folder which is used to create the CDP for upload. I used this method as it had been used successfully by other creators, most recently for the excellent UK 'bus kits which include easy-to-follow instructions for amending the textures and destination signs, etc.

Although I agree that information on a route should be displayed when the route or session is first loaded 'in-game', this does not apply to half-a-dozen or so individual assets and I feel that, provided the user is informed in the DLS description of an asset that additional information is included in a 'read me' file, it is an easy task to open the asset for editing in CM and copy the 'read me' to be saved elsewhere for easy reference. (This is what I do, anyway - or if complicated it can be printed.)

I shall therefore continue to use 'read me' files with a copy on my website, and refer to this in each asset's description.

Thabks to all for an interesting discussion.

Ray

ray_whiley said:

..provided the user is informed in the DLS description of an asset that additional information is included in a 'read me' file, it is an easy task to open the asset for editing in CM and copy the 'read me' to be saved elsewhere for easy reference.

Click to expand...

I hear what you're saying, but I think that's too complicated for a lot of people. Some people won't read the description. Some of the people who do, won't be game to edit the content, or will break it in the process.

I shall therefore continue to use 'read me' files with a copy on my website, and refer to this in each asset's description.

Click to expand...

Sounds like a sensible starting point, although I think we can do much better than this as a community.

cheers,

chris

WindWalkr said:

..although I think we can do much better.....
chris

Click to expand...

Hello WindWalkr
I apologize, I do understand that you don't wish to talk with me, but problem how to placed the informations in the session is very obvious and has a very high priority for me.
In the past i opened this thread
HTML pages
but I didn't get the answer.
Two questions in TS12 are:
-how to resize (expand) the width of the page for the table, when we use 'Display HTML Pages' and 'Set HTML Pages'
-how to recall page later in the session, if we use rules 'Display HTML', 'Display HTML Resizable' or 'Timed limited display HTML'. ( old 'info button' and new 'Toggle session instruction' don't work in TS12 for this rules).
If it is possible, please, be so kind and explain a little more, how to do this.

regards
celje

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwhelan
Occasionally to support a tutorial I have been known to include the .blend source file. How would you suggest this could be done?

WindWalkr said:

I assume by "tutorial" you mean "content creation tutorial" rather than "in-game tutorial."

If that's the case, then my suggestion is that you should host the tutorial on an appropriate site (you're welcome to use our wiki, but it's certainly not the only choice) and provide the support files from there.

It's worth considering whether the tutorial asset should be on the DLS to start with if it's intended only as a tutorial and not as a serious asset. If you're not uploading to the DLS then you can simply use zip format and keep any related content, PDFs, tutorial text, etc. separate from the asset folder. First poster appears to be referring to the DLS specifically.

chris

Click to expand...

If you'd like to remove all my content from the DLS as previously requested I'm more than happy to go through it to ensure it meets your DLS content guidelines and upload only appropriate content.

The problem with using N3V wiki as a host is more how stable will it be? You do have a history of deleting content creation information from time to time.

Mind you I really ought to have a dig in there sometime and see if I can find anything these days. I got a bit lost last time.

Cheerio John