Jointed Rail Smart signal questions...

Dear Jointedrail,
It has been a long and head pounding process to figure out why your smart signals will only give me medium clears and approaches. There is either something wrong with them or I just dont know how to set them up. This probably being the reason... So Jointedrail will you ever release that manual to show how to setup your very detailed, prototypical, and complicated signals? I know plenty of people who would also like to have this manual finished.
Thankyou,
Amtrakid17

welllll, the only one who can make the manuals i guess is me, and i have been very busy making other important things (like cabs). maybe you can show me an example of where you are having issues.


edit: i cant think of any real set-up they require other than guarding multiple junctions, otherwise they should be used like a normal trainz signal.

norfolksouthern37 said:

welllll, the only one who can make the manuals i guess is me, and i have been very busy making other important things (like cabs). maybe you can show me an example of where you are having issues.

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Hmmmm... Cabs or Manual... Cabs or Manual...:hehe:

Rough and ready guide.

Use an 08 before 3 junctions, 06 before 2, (derrmy's rule).(to set the switches)
Use 05's on open lines. Set these to show aspect, do this in surveyor.
04's before merging junctions.
Another reason for no clear signals is the way you set the switches in surveyor.

I understand that cabs seem like the more important objective at the time, but the signal problem is more important because it deals with the functionality with the whole route.

This is my question what is the setup for this?


This is what i mean by having a medium clear on a clear track. Keep in mind there is a double crossover interlocking after it another 06 gantry then a two to one track switch.

fran1 said:

Use an 08 before 3 junctions, 06 before 2, (derrmy's rule).(to set the switches)
Use 05's on open lines. Set these to show aspect, do this in surveyor.
04's before merging junctions.
Another reason for no clear signals is the way you set the switches in surveyor.

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This rule is awesome. Works all the time for me.

John

fran1 said:

Use an 08 before 3 junctions, 06 before 2, (derrmy's rule).(to set the switches)
Use 05's on open lines. Set these to show aspect, do this in surveyor.
04's before merging junctions.
Another reason for no clear signals is the way you set the switches in surveyor.

Click to expand...

Hmmm... After reading this post I have become very confused. First, i have only used jointed rails signals and nothing else. Heres a noob question: What exactly do you mean by 3 junctions and 2 junctions? And when you say open line i asume u mean a no junctions before the next signal? Thanks!

And one other thing. In the picture above where the properties for the signal is open, what does it mean by nearest to farthest? Thanks again.

i cant see whats down the line there but i think i have an idea of what you are doing.

just placing the L or R signals gives you either L or R paths by default, what the setup means though, is that you can define the path through multiple junctions, something a default signal cannot do because it stops looking at the first junction.

Trainz junctions have 3 directions, Left, Right, and Forward. in your screenshot you have it set for F, which is forward, and really can only apply to a 3 way junction. also, the direction of a junction is from its original vertex (the points) towards the frog or diverging section of track.



in this screenshot you can see where i have set the far right signal to have a straight path of L, which in this case really doesnt matter because when the path is not L its going to be closed, but the next path is R, meaning the arrows are to be pointed right when the path is set normal. the first entry simply gets the signal to read past that turnout (junction 230) in this case, since it is facing the signal. and places the final reading on the second turnout (junction 36). we dont need to worry about junction 38 because it is on the diverging path and not part of the main ("straight") path.

the 3 head signals offer some more functionality here, because the aspects degrade depending on how many turnouts you set the path through.

Gameboy900 said:

...What exactly do you mean by 3 junctions and 2 junctions?...

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That's a slight misquote of my 'rule'. It isn't a 'rule' and it isn't necessarily proto and I think when I posted originally I called it 'Dermmy's rough-and-ready-rule-of-thumb', but whatever you call it, it works most of the time to get an acceptable aspect on signals protecting an interlocking:

If the shortest path through the interlocking passes over three or more levers use 08s, if it only passes over two levers use 06's...



Andy

Dermmy said:

That's a slight misquote of my 'rule'. It isn't a 'rule' and it isn't necessarily proto and I think when I posted originally I called it 'Dermmy's rough-and-ready-rule-of-thumb', but whatever you call it, it works most of the time to get an acceptable aspect on signals protecting an interlocking:

If the shortest path through the interlocking passes over three or more levers use 08s, if it only passes over two levers use 06's...



Andy

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So what do you mean by the shortest path? (i hate having you have to dumb it down even more.

Wandering off topic

edit to save myself I can't shortly and concisely explain what I mean without simply repeating myself. My original post (now deleted) rambled on for ages and still didn't get it right. Which is probably exactly why there isn't a manual! So I'm bailing before I drag this thread way off topic...

Andy

What I sort of figured out is that a medium clear means hit the switch at half speed for saftey then proceed at limited speed. The RD (right diverging) and LD (left diverging) helped me realize why it was giving me a medium with the Ld and a clear with the RD. If that makes any sense. Im still confused out of my mind though.

This is what the whole thing looks like now how would i set this up?

that one you said you had problems with should be a simple 06RD with nothing specific set in the details.

the 05s on the gantry in both the first image and the third seem out of place. putting a permissive signal in that location is dangerous. in the first image, the gantry signals should probably be 06 types, because of the crossover that is up ahead. they should both be LD types.

Well the gantry in the first one is just comming out of the yard. So i didnt really think they would need 06's and yea i kinda figured they didnt fit in the third one either but they were the only signals giving me a clear. In the first picture is there any way to make it so that no mater if it crosses over to main 1 or stays on main 2 that it would be a clear?

The picture of the signals on the gantry is set up wrong. The signal coming off the diverging route should be a two headed signal. You should get a Medium Clear, Restricting, or a Stop Signal on that track.

Actually, all signals at an interlocking( junction ) should have at least two heads, possibly three heads.

Yea I understand now. How would i set up a gauntlet switch?

Amtrakid17 said:

Well the gantry in the first one is just comming out of the yard. So i didnt really think they would need 06's and yea i kinda figured they didnt fit in the third one either but they were the only signals giving me a clear. In the first picture is there any way to make it so that no mater if it crosses over to main 1 or stays on main 2 that it would be a clear?

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yes, while it doesnt make sense, using an 04 signal. the purpose of the 2 head signals is to show information about the diverging routes, if you dont want that, use 04s.

Justin will you ever make tri light signals because the safetrans really dont go with what railroad im making this route for.

First of...why are there 05s on the gantry at the control point to the single track? Numberboards indicate stop and proceed when there is a red shown. Those should be 04s (non-permissive) going into that single line.

The 06s being used on the other hand, well I'd like to see a picture where it displays the direction of the switches, so that way I can tell if the correct signal is being used.

Everything you need to learn about CTC...
http://www.lundsten.dk/us_signaling/movement.html#CTC

And ABS...
http://www.lundsten.dk/us_signaling/movement.html#ABS