What is important to you in a prototypical route?

paulzmay

There's not enough room i
I'm starting to do some preparatory work on a prototypical route, and I was just wondering what folks on here consider important. The route I'm looking at has some fairly distinctive buildings alongside, which could make content creation take even longer than route building.

So, what 'makes' a prototypical route for you? How much does this change if someone is charging for it?

Paul
 
Unless you are prepared to create your own scenery assets you will never get the line side scenery as accurate as you would want. Using scenery assets from the same or a similar region, period and hopefully style as the original is the best you will probably achieve. Signalling is usually a similar story - I make do with what is available on the DLS.

My efforts in prototypical routes go firstly into getting the track layouts as accurate as possible - for this I use track diagrams and route maps.

Next I concentrate on the shape of the landforms - Google Earth has until now been my sole source of data here but now that I have TranzDEM (but not yet learnt how to use it) I hope this will improve.

Ground textures are always an issue - seasonal changes in the vegetation will always be a problem. Google Earth often combines images taken at different times of the year so cannot be completely relied upon and again you are limited to the textures available in the program and on the DLS.

Like most things in life - it will be a compromise.

Peter Ware
 
For me it’s the scenery that nails it:

Topograpy
The topography has to be correct, particularly for hilly areas. If it’s not, anything placed on it, however accurately it might be modelled and textured, just looks wrong.

Buildings
You’re right about buildings being distinctive. Most of us recognise where we are on a familiar train journey by seeing what’s around us though the window. These buildings can include not just the local trackside stuff, but perhaps a church spire or buildings on a distant hill.

Vegetation
This is often underestimated but, IMHO, a very necessary addition to complete the illusion of reality. Trees, set at the right height, and some weedy trackside areas, are all needed to a lesser or greater degree. Even the bleakest industrial landscape has some greenery dotted around.

Some foliage items can be as recognisable as landmarks just as much as buildings.If you’re one of the fortunates who have mastered gmax, or equivalent, there is always the option of getting a photograph of that strikingly distorted tree that might be a big feature of an area being modelled, and making your own billboard. (The Speedtree option might be rather more difficult though!)

I’ve not get been able to model my own trees, but there are so many great ones around so finding a good match for type, shape and height is usually not too difficult. As with the buildings, I have found that a perfect match is not always necessary.

A reasonable mix of these three scenery categories usually provides an end result which is greater than the sum of all the parts.

All IMHO of course


Cheers
Casper
 
For those not familiar with the Kano model of customer satisfaction, I think really you can split the different elements of a route into 4 distinct categories. (Sorry to go all technical, but this is how I see it ;) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kano_model )

Level 1 - Basic Features - These are things a route must have otherwise it's not a good route:

Under this category, for a prototypical route, I'd expect the landscape and scale to be done accurately. Especially if paying for a route, I wouldn't accept not using TransDEM to make the landscape, considering it's only £15 - 20 or so and DEM data is usually free. This makes economic sense anyway as if you're charging for a route, you should easily recoup the TransDEM money. In this category I'd also consider realistic scenery placement and trackwork. This isn't to say necessarily accurate placement and trackwork, that's in the next section, but it being realistic is a must. Vegetation and stuff comes under this part, because although it doesn't necessarily have to be accurate, there is lots of ground brush and loads of trees everywhere.

Summary: Make it look real.

Level 2 - Performance Features - These are things that the better they are done, the better the route.

Accuracy of Trackwork, Scenery and Signalling placement. Effectively, the more accurate these are, the better the route becomes. Good sources for these are Google Earth/Street View, although be warned about how Google Earth has a tendency not to update everything at the same time, so you might get some bits years apart. For the UK, a good source of signalling data is from simsig (google it) and the network rail website has a bit on speed limits. (I think nexusdj knows where it is).

Summary: The more accurate it is, the better it is.

Level 3 - Delighters - These are things which are not expected to be done in the route at all and as such, their inclusion "makes" the route.

Custom content is the best thing for here. By which I mean content specifically made for the route. The best example I can think of is angelah's WCL route, which had Reading station made especially for the route, which isn't something that you'd expect from a route (esp. not a freeware one). It's all great being clever with splines and things, but it shows that you've put that bit more effort in if you actually have custom content for your route.

Another thing to put here is an intuitive way of running AI along the route. If I want to use the route a lot, I generally want more than one train running on it at a time and it becomes a huge hassle when I have to create my own route map with platform numbers written on. It's not that hard to put compass directions or "Up/Down" on trackmarks and makes setting up AI much easier than figuring it out for yourself. An included route map wouldn't go amiss either.

Summary: Custom content and good AI capabilities.

Level -1 - Reversers - These are things which although done with good intentions, make the route worse.

These mostly don't apply to me anymore, as my computer's quite powerful these days, but anything that although makes a small graphical improvement, but could be done with fewer polygons etc. to alleviate the strain on the computer tend to mean that I don't use the route. There are levels of detail that just aren't required to make a route good and there's no point in excluding people with slightly slower machines. This is also a less prevalent problem with TS2010 onwards, but sometimes it's still possible to come across things which don't work very well because there's just too much detail.

I reckon I've given a pretty comprehensive opinion. Hope it helps.
 
I'm a simple man with simple desires. My key wants in a route are detailed lineside infrastructure, well planned and laid trackwork and variety.
 
G'day Paul,

This Payware route - is it Australian, or, from another area please, you haven't really stated this in your OP, neither have you informed us what version of Trainz you are going to build it in.
I would agree with most of the comments already, definitive track laying, topography, a wide variety of different ground textures and the most appropriate buildings and other scenery items for your particular location are the most important to me personally, but, it also depends on what is available on the DLS for the area you are creating, and don't forget, Speedtreez will be automatically installed onto your map as soon as we install it into our game, unless you do it for TRS2004/6.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.
 
Hmmm, if you do want to create a proto route, you will need some characteristics that look the part. The trackwork, obviously, but also the tracks as well, meaning if I were creating a proto/real life Adelaide station, I would need tracks that look like the tracks in Adelaide Station, and the trackwork obviously.

Scenery-wise, I think unique, important buildings and well-known buildings would be needed. If I were to create a Melbourne Suburban Line, I would need Flinders St Station as it is as everyone knows what it looks like. Or at least most people

Topography-wise, accurate, or semi-accurate, meaning that you would need to at least have some similarities to the grades and hills of Mt Lofty, if I were creating Mt Lofty. Which I'm not. Or use a DEM.

HTH Paul

Jamie
 
I agree with PFX and ex-railwayman , Track work needs to be laid correctly and signalling installed as per the prototype .

I've downloaded far too many routes where the scenery was superb only to find pointwork and curves with radii as sharp as what is found in a train set and signals placed at every set of points !

I've yet to find a country who's signalling system is not described in great length on a website so there no excuses (unless that countries signalling system isn't available in trainz) and most countries are now covered in great detail on Google earth so pointwork lengths can be measured .

Get those basics right and the scenery will enhance what is already a great route .
good luck with your route Paul :)
 
I would like a very long route. I just want to sit in my loco and drive for hours, turn around, drive back and then do it again.
 
I am working on a prototypical route right now along the Monongahela River south of Pittsburgh, PA. As has been said before, you will never have it block by block to the last building, and there are going to be substitutions for what is available to you.

For example, I have a Kroger in the place of what was a Foodland at the time (and is a Save-a-Lot now), and a CVS in place of a Rite-Aid. I've taken liberties with my steel mills by using Maddy25's mills because (a) there is just too much mill to get all of the details exact, and (b) a great deal of them have been torn down now and it is nearly impossible to get pictures of exactly how it was when they were still there.

With that said, I do believe that there are important "hero" features that you will probably want to make/have made for you. An odd circular building that always gets your attention, or a certain restaurant that everyone knows and has to eat at when they are in that part of town. On my route, there are several dozens of river crossings with some plain-jane bridges and some very distinctive bridges, and I was very fortunate to have Ben Dorsey make a pair of amazing bridges for one such place for me. Hell, Ben may never make another bridge again for me with as much back-and-forth "this isn't quite right- can you do that instead?" that went on! (Seriously, Ben, I can't thank you enough!!) Dave Snow is making a lot of great new content now and Euphod is taking it and churning out a lot of great reskins. I even reskinned a gas station myself, just to try my own hand at it. When I get to somewhere that I think I need something else distinctive, I might try my luck at making a building or two of my own in gMax. I've seen that you have reskinned quite a few things yourself too.......
 
I have to agree with everyone.
But there is on most routes to many switches with junction XXXX and it would be nice to have switches with names of where they take you when you change them.( not default )
Another thing is in yards that the radis of switches be set smaller so when shunning you don't have to drive 3 to 4 cars pass the switch to change it.
( on my route i set mine to 00.05 as soon as you pass the switch you can change it.)
 
I have built a prototypical route of a whole city and now one for a country. Scenery has a lot to do with it as well as the normal things like track, signalling, etc. In my present build of the N.I.R, I have essentially put in roads, villages, streets as they are on a map although I accept the buildings and stations will have to be perceptions as getting something looking like the actual isn't possible. One visitor to my website did say that he recognised some places in my city build which was encouraging. So putting in a reasonable background scene is important as the build of the routes to give a goodly picture and idea.
 
Thanks for the input everyone. A lot of that is very much along the lines I was thinking.

I don't want to be acused of vapourware, so I won't announce the project I'm looking at, but I will say that it's urban and UK based, and will probably not be free (I certainly want to acheive a standard that folks would pay for). I have bought TransDEM, and will upgrade to the commercial licence if I choose to charge for the route. I'm also using Google Earth to give me good views of trackwork and building location. Streetview helps in places too.

The route will be built in TS2010 (or TS12 when I get round to buying it), so I have all the features available that those versions entail. It does potentially give me a dilemma: there are relatively few assets available that use LOD, normal mapping, stitched mesh track etc, so I may have a choice between prtotypical and realistic in places.

I do expect to have to create quite a few new buildings, but as it's a UK route, I don't have access to the location in question, so I don't want to go overboard. As it's an urban route, most of its length is surrounded by buildings, many of which are reasonably unique. The track itself is not quite like anything available in places, so that's more work, plus the overhead for about half the route isn't available as far as I know. And then there's rolling stock...

I intend to include a number of sessions with realistic AI traffic (services are frequent in real life), so hopefully operations should be taken care of.

Of course, I might have bitten off more than I can chew...

Paul
 
Speedtreez will be automatically installed onto your map as soon as we install it into our game, unless you do it for TRS2004/6.

I'm not sure that is totally correct. I've imported routes into TS210 with the billboard trees still intact. I believe there are some very old billboard trees that have the same kuid as some new auran speedtreez but these are few.

Tundra's billboard trees for example will be fine.

Oh and to answer your question topography has to be correct first of all or nothing else really matters after that.
 
Every blade of grass... every pebble and stone... :eek:

No, not really. Certainly track work should be accurate, topology as far as Trainz can reproduce, and the occasional landmark or building would do it for me.
 
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Our prototypical route, the Darjeeling Himalayan Railway, pretty much forced us to create all our assets from scratch. There simply were no Indian assets on the DLS. That is the main reason, however, the route looks to lifelike - all those assets created by our talented group.

I would be very hard pressed indeed to put a finger on just what makes a prototypical route 'talk' to you. In retrospect, I'd have to say "everything" contributed to the 'look and feel' of a mountainous narrowgauge steam line.

Bill
 
for me, it's trackwork and operations. Personally, i'd be happy (and am happy) with running a route with bare baseboards with accurate trackwork and lineside industries (see my WB&NW...freelance, but built to prototype practices). Topography is major, but i don't sweat those details like the first two. same with accurate buildings. I understand the limitations of available assets. I'm not going to do a tume and build hundreds of custom assets to make a route absolutely 100% true to life.

and for the record, I am building a prototype route, the route of the movie the titfield thunderbolt. It's evolved (due to a yank building a british route) into a more prototype freelance theme, since there's just so much i don't know. My number 1 suggestion is don't take it too seriously and try to rivet-count everything. it kills your creative drive...i know it did to me.

I'll take shameless self-promotion for 300 alex :eek: :hehe:
 
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So, what 'makes' a prototypical route for you?



You could use this route still in development as an example of what’s involved in creating a prototypical route –

http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?302161-3DTrains-CSX-Selkirk-Branch



It’s been created using DEM and actual railroad track profile data (gradient) and is highly accurate as far as track and signal configuration (control point layout) is concerned. Data from the TT/SI has also been used.

The visual characteristics of the sub division are also modeled from data taken right from the actual area.
 
What is important to me is exact prototypical curve radius (@ 250m R), and exact prototypical gradients (@ 1.75% or less) ... with turnout crossovers of at least 200', points to points.

All turnouts should have frogs, switch levers that are not default Auran type, and animated points.
 
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