amigacooke
Well-known member
I think maybe TOCs that use old stock and are involved in accidents should be banned.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-35954361
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-35954361
West Coast Railways Banned Again from UK Rail Network.
- Thread starter wholbr
- Start date
johnwhelan
Well-known member
Hi everybody.
Yep, well I think it is time that all this railway nonsense was scrapped. These train thingies never stop when you want them to, so I believe we would be safer and far better off all driving our cars. We could tear up all these unsafe railway lines and relay them as lovely tarmac roads which would also ease road congestion throughout the UK. More roads=== less congestion ---NO? :hehe:
Seriously though, the above was put forward as a genuine policy in the mid 1960s. It had the support of a considerable number of MPs in the House of Commons along with a number of newspapers which included the Daily Mail and Daily Telegraph. Luckily for us all today the policy was never implemented. Anyone can only wonder just what the traffic situation would be today if it had been.
However, the recent failures of Network Rail have been mentioned a number of times in this thread, and things seem to be getting no better. When the electrification of the Great Western mainline was began between London and Bristol/Cardiff nearly two years ago, commuters were informed that there would be no disruption to services as all the work would be carried out at night inconveniencing no one.
Well, the above has certainly not proved to be true as there have been no end of disruption through overrunning night work with the project running now two years behind schedule and almost double its 2.5 Billion pound original budget. This week brings the largest disruption so far with the closure of the entire line between Bristol Temple Meads station and the city of Bath which has come about with very little prior announcement by Network Rail. This morning being the first day of the closure has brought traffic chaos to the Eastern side of the city of Bristol and on the Western side of Bath.
I am due to travel up to London tomorrow from my local station in North Somerset. The rail diversion via Bristol Parkway will add over 20 minutes to my journey time In both directions. So, the 6:40 am London Paddington train which normally gets me there at 8:45 will now not get me there until 9:10. As I have to get through the London Underground and into Holborn by 10 am my schedule now looks distinctly “dodgy” to say the least,many thanks Network Rail.
All the above “services” are costing me a mere £204.00 (298 US dollars) plus underground which fortunately I will be able to claim back from the company eventually. Therefore, is it any wonder that so many regular rail users are becoming “fed up to the back teeth“ with the cost of travel verses the standard of service they are receiving from the train operating companies and Network Rail.
Best part about the above is, I would not have known anything about the mainline closure and disruption but for one of our legal secretaries happening to mention it here in the office this morning. So much for the Network Rails claimed “pre advertising” of the situation. when I booked my ticket online not a word was stated in regard to the closure. Therfore----V---to Network Rail.
Come on amigacooke, John, BLACKWATCH, even you lot must have some sympathy with me on this one?.
Bill
Yep, well I think it is time that all this railway nonsense was scrapped. These train thingies never stop when you want them to, so I believe we would be safer and far better off all driving our cars. We could tear up all these unsafe railway lines and relay them as lovely tarmac roads which would also ease road congestion throughout the UK. More roads=== less congestion ---NO? :hehe:
Seriously though, the above was put forward as a genuine policy in the mid 1960s. It had the support of a considerable number of MPs in the House of Commons along with a number of newspapers which included the Daily Mail and Daily Telegraph. Luckily for us all today the policy was never implemented. Anyone can only wonder just what the traffic situation would be today if it had been.
However, the recent failures of Network Rail have been mentioned a number of times in this thread, and things seem to be getting no better. When the electrification of the Great Western mainline was began between London and Bristol/Cardiff nearly two years ago, commuters were informed that there would be no disruption to services as all the work would be carried out at night inconveniencing no one.
Well, the above has certainly not proved to be true as there have been no end of disruption through overrunning night work with the project running now two years behind schedule and almost double its 2.5 Billion pound original budget. This week brings the largest disruption so far with the closure of the entire line between Bristol Temple Meads station and the city of Bath which has come about with very little prior announcement by Network Rail. This morning being the first day of the closure has brought traffic chaos to the Eastern side of the city of Bristol and on the Western side of Bath.
I am due to travel up to London tomorrow from my local station in North Somerset. The rail diversion via Bristol Parkway will add over 20 minutes to my journey time In both directions. So, the 6:40 am London Paddington train which normally gets me there at 8:45 will now not get me there until 9:10. As I have to get through the London Underground and into Holborn by 10 am my schedule now looks distinctly “dodgy” to say the least,many thanks Network Rail.
All the above “services” are costing me a mere £204.00 (298 US dollars) plus underground which fortunately I will be able to claim back from the company eventually. Therefore, is it any wonder that so many regular rail users are becoming “fed up to the back teeth“ with the cost of travel verses the standard of service they are receiving from the train operating companies and Network Rail.
Best part about the above is, I would not have known anything about the mainline closure and disruption but for one of our legal secretaries happening to mention it here in the office this morning. So much for the Network Rails claimed “pre advertising” of the situation. when I booked my ticket online not a word was stated in regard to the closure. Therfore----V---to Network Rail.
Come on amigacooke, John, BLACKWATCH, even you lot must have some sympathy with me on this one?.
Bill
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amigacooke
Well-known member
Come on amigacooke, John, BLACKWATCH, even you lot must have some sympathy with me on this one?.
Bill
Always have sympathy with you Bill, just not your anti-kettle, pro-Man United tendencies
Come on Leicester!
BLACKWATCH
Mechanical Engineer
Come on amigacooke, John, BLACKWATCH, even you lot must have some sympathy with me on this one?.
Bill
No sympathy at all, you should buy yourself a helicopter & give your business to London City Airport.
Bill,
At least you can read, poke around on your Chromebook, or nap during your commute via rail as bad as you say it is. Just think you could be driving and stuck in commuter traffic.
What used to be a 35 mile commute for me to the office could take me anywhere between 37 -40 minutes to 130 minutes. God forbid there was a holiday weekend, snow, or even a rain shower during commuter hours. On some days I would be so exhausted and frazzled, I didn't even want to work when I got there. I was too tired and drained to think.
And... over here I would give anything to have mainline steam running again. In my area there are no tours allowed. Period. on our local rail line. The local company, Pan Am Railways, forbids them and even calls the police on rail fans taking pictures.
John
At least you can read, poke around on your Chromebook, or nap during your commute via rail as bad as you say it is. Just think you could be driving and stuck in commuter traffic.
What used to be a 35 mile commute for me to the office could take me anywhere between 37 -40 minutes to 130 minutes. God forbid there was a holiday weekend, snow, or even a rain shower during commuter hours. On some days I would be so exhausted and frazzled, I didn't even want to work when I got there. I was too tired and drained to think.
And... over here I would give anything to have mainline steam running again. In my area there are no tours allowed. Period. on our local rail line. The local company, Pan Am Railways, forbids them and even calls the police on rail fans taking pictures.
John
BLACKWATCH
Mechanical Engineer
Sorry, but when I need people to work out weights, crate sizes, sort out proform papers, customs documents, arrange shipping to the other side of the globe
via a mixture of road air & sea ....................
............ arriving half asleep after a 2 hour drive/train journey is out of the question.
MOVE CLOSER TO THE OFFICE.
amigacooke
Well-known member
Bill, I saw this today and thought of you. Health and safety eh.
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Hi everybody.
John (Citron), nice to see you join the thread as I was only wondering where you had got to a few days back as you did not seem to be around much on the forum.
Anyway, I think that BLACKWATCH is correct when he advises that here in the UK people should certainly live much nearer to their places of work. However, the big problem is for many that property prices in big cities are most certainly out of the price range of the average earner and therefore there is little alternative to commuting for the vast majority of wage/ salary earners.
For business commuters BLACKWATCH is again correct as many of us work extraordinarily long hours due to the amount of time spent travelling. By example, While posting this to the forum I am travelling back from London on the 7 pm London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads HST service. I left home at 6:30 am this morning to catch the 7am HST service from my local station in North Somerset which got me into London at 9:15am. There was then a 35 minute journey through the London Underground to Holborn which is where the working day really started more than three hours after I left home.
The Homeward Bound HST service I am on now is due into Bristol Temple Meads at 8:45 p.m Where there should be an immediate connecting District service on the adjoining platform for North Somerset which should get me there by 9:10pm, and then the wife “ hopefully” will pick me up in her car from the station at 9:30pm for a quick pint in the pub ( or perhaps two) and then home. However my arrival at my local station will be almost sixteen hours after i left home.
The above is very much the average for business persons who have to commute the country in the course of their work. Approximately 10 years ago with the advent of Skype and Google Hangouts etc it was thought that video conferencing would dramatically reduce commercial commuting. The foregoing certainly has not happened as many seem to feel ( including myself) that nothing can replace a person(s) to person(s) meeting when commercial/working matters are involved. Anyone who has ever been involved in a “Soleless” video conference will know exactly what I mean.
I do believe there is one way in which commuting in the UK and perhaps other countries could be dramatically reduced. With the advent of Cloud technology in computing I certainly feel that many jobs currently done in company offices could be carried out by people working at home. Company personnel could access all the company data and information they require via the cloud and continually save their work back to there for other personnel in the company to access. The foregoing is only really what goes on in offices at present. There would be some security issues to overcome but I certainly feel it is worth consideration by employers.
Anyway, it has just been announced that we will be arriving into Bristol Temple Meads in the next 7 minutes, so I had better prepare to leave this train service for the connection.
Bill
John (Citron), nice to see you join the thread as I was only wondering where you had got to a few days back as you did not seem to be around much on the forum.
Anyway, I think that BLACKWATCH is correct when he advises that here in the UK people should certainly live much nearer to their places of work. However, the big problem is for many that property prices in big cities are most certainly out of the price range of the average earner and therefore there is little alternative to commuting for the vast majority of wage/ salary earners.
For business commuters BLACKWATCH is again correct as many of us work extraordinarily long hours due to the amount of time spent travelling. By example, While posting this to the forum I am travelling back from London on the 7 pm London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads HST service. I left home at 6:30 am this morning to catch the 7am HST service from my local station in North Somerset which got me into London at 9:15am. There was then a 35 minute journey through the London Underground to Holborn which is where the working day really started more than three hours after I left home.
The Homeward Bound HST service I am on now is due into Bristol Temple Meads at 8:45 p.m Where there should be an immediate connecting District service on the adjoining platform for North Somerset which should get me there by 9:10pm, and then the wife “ hopefully” will pick me up in her car from the station at 9:30pm for a quick pint in the pub ( or perhaps two) and then home. However my arrival at my local station will be almost sixteen hours after i left home.
The above is very much the average for business persons who have to commute the country in the course of their work. Approximately 10 years ago with the advent of Skype and Google Hangouts etc it was thought that video conferencing would dramatically reduce commercial commuting. The foregoing certainly has not happened as many seem to feel ( including myself) that nothing can replace a person(s) to person(s) meeting when commercial/working matters are involved. Anyone who has ever been involved in a “Soleless” video conference will know exactly what I mean.
I do believe there is one way in which commuting in the UK and perhaps other countries could be dramatically reduced. With the advent of Cloud technology in computing I certainly feel that many jobs currently done in company offices could be carried out by people working at home. Company personnel could access all the company data and information they require via the cloud and continually save their work back to there for other personnel in the company to access. The foregoing is only really what goes on in offices at present. There would be some security issues to overcome but I certainly feel it is worth consideration by employers.
Anyway, it has just been announced that we will be arriving into Bristol Temple Meads in the next 7 minutes, so I had better prepare to leave this train service for the connection.
Bill
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I agree, however, as Bill says living where I worked was too expensive. My house cost me $170K 18 years ago and I could sell it today for 3 times that. The same house where I used to work would cost twice that again, and way out of my budget. This is typical of the great Boston Massachusetts area, which is one of the most expensive in the US.
Speaking of the job you mentioned, I used to do the same about 7 years ago. I was responsible for shipping electronics equipment and printing supplies worldwide for the manufacturer I worked with. I received multiple awards from my freight forwarders for having the proper harmonized tariff codes, SEDs, Pro-forma invoices, and other customs documents, completed in the proper manner.
John
johnwhelan
Well-known member
I've set up teleworking for an organisation years ago. "But why would we need it? Still its not that expensive." I think it was the next summer the building was on 97% reduced power one of the very big Quebec hydro lines went down and it took nearly two weeks to repair but they had permission to run the servers and the modem pool so that will give you an idea of how long ago it was. Strangely enough the mixture of greater productivity without interuptions meant the department functioned just about normally. You don't need the cloud for this sort of stuff.
Cheerio John
BLACKWATCH
Mechanical Engineer
Logistics in my case were a bit more on the heavy side, I was shipping marine diesel engine parts worldwide, anything from a set of gaskets to crankshafts that measured up to 18/20ft in length or cylinder heads that could each weigh a tonne when built up with valve gear.
We also supplied BR with parts for the EE 12 CSVT, EE 16SVT, Mirrlees MB 275T & the Ruston RK series
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Logistics in my case were a bit more on the heavy side, I was shipping marine diesel engine parts worldwide, anything from a set of gaskets to crankshafts that measured up to 18/20ft in length or cylinder heads that could each weigh a tonne when built up with valve gear.
We also supplied BR with parts for the EE 12 CSVT, EE 16SVT, Mirrlees MB 275T & the Ruston RK series
Much bigger indeed.
My stuff were 22x30 proofing equipment with pallets of ink sheets and paper. The totally weight was probably that for a large imager and the pallet of supplies.
John
Hi Everybody
Amigacooke, I ran the video link from your posting at #48 in our office this morning and it had everybody fascinated and laughing at the conditions Fred was working in. I did tell them that to see builders working in those situations and safety conditions was not unusual during the 1960s and in fact it was the norm.
Staff that had seen the video were showing it to others who had not throughout the day in regard to the shots of them working on the chimney, and I was thanked before I left the office for providing the link. Therefore, I thought I would pass on those thanks to you
Fred Dibnah, a great British larger than life character who lived out that life doing exactly what he wished to do in the way that he wished to do it. He was a wonderful example to all others especially today's younger generation who as demonstrated in our office today are intrigued by his work when they see it and his ability to achieve what he wished without any great education or reliance on others.
So,many thanks again amigacooke, although I am not so sure the general office manager was so thankful in regards to you and me causing a considerable drop in productivity down in that office today. :hehe:
Bill
Sorry I cannot re-post amigacooks link in this posting everybody but for some reason it will not post correctly
Amigacooke, I ran the video link from your posting at #48 in our office this morning and it had everybody fascinated and laughing at the conditions Fred was working in. I did tell them that to see builders working in those situations and safety conditions was not unusual during the 1960s and in fact it was the norm.
Staff that had seen the video were showing it to others who had not throughout the day in regard to the shots of them working on the chimney, and I was thanked before I left the office for providing the link. Therefore, I thought I would pass on those thanks to you
Fred Dibnah, a great British larger than life character who lived out that life doing exactly what he wished to do in the way that he wished to do it. He was a wonderful example to all others especially today's younger generation who as demonstrated in our office today are intrigued by his work when they see it and his ability to achieve what he wished without any great education or reliance on others.
So,many thanks again amigacooke, although I am not so sure the general office manager was so thankful in regards to you and me causing a considerable drop in productivity down in that office today. :hehe:
Bill
Sorry I cannot re-post amigacooks link in this posting everybody but for some reason it will not post correctly
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Hi everybody.
Just an update to the forum on the crown court status in regard to West Coast Railways and the driver of the heritage steam locomotive “Tangmere” involved in the Wotton Bassett spad. Following a year-long investigation charges have been laid against both the above parties and preliminary magistrates hearings have been held.
The above follows The office of Road and Rail investigation(s) into the incident involving a steam locomotive operated by WCRC, which passed a signal at danger which controlled the Wootton Bassett junction in Wiltshire. This extremely serious incident resulted in the train coming to a stop 550 metres after the signal, across the busy junction on the Great Western main line, directly in the path of high speed trains.
The train’s driver (Melvyn Cox) is facing charges under section 7 and 8 of the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 (HSWA). This relates to his alleged intentional misuse of the Train Protection and Warning System (TPWS) equipment.
The office of road and rail investigation has brought forward allegations that the driver directed a colleague fireman to turn off the essential safety system designed to apply an emergency brake if the driver makes an error. If found guilty of the above charges, Mr Cox could face a possible custodial sentence as well as a heavy financial court fine and costs
West Coast Railways are separately facing charges under sections 3 and 2 of the Health and Safety at Work Act. This is on the basis of its alleged failure to implement managerial controls, procedures, training and monitoring to prevent staff turning off the TPWS equipment. If found guilty on the above charges west Coast Railways could face very heavy financial penalties together with having to pay the costs of the court and the office of road and rail investigation cost
It has been reported that in its last financial statement to Companies House, West Coast Railways declared its total asset and cash value as being less than £800,000.
Bill
Just an update to the forum on the crown court status in regard to West Coast Railways and the driver of the heritage steam locomotive “Tangmere” involved in the Wotton Bassett spad. Following a year-long investigation charges have been laid against both the above parties and preliminary magistrates hearings have been held.
The above follows The office of Road and Rail investigation(s) into the incident involving a steam locomotive operated by WCRC, which passed a signal at danger which controlled the Wootton Bassett junction in Wiltshire. This extremely serious incident resulted in the train coming to a stop 550 metres after the signal, across the busy junction on the Great Western main line, directly in the path of high speed trains.
The train’s driver (Melvyn Cox) is facing charges under section 7 and 8 of the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 (HSWA). This relates to his alleged intentional misuse of the Train Protection and Warning System (TPWS) equipment.
The office of road and rail investigation has brought forward allegations that the driver directed a colleague fireman to turn off the essential safety system designed to apply an emergency brake if the driver makes an error. If found guilty of the above charges, Mr Cox could face a possible custodial sentence as well as a heavy financial court fine and costs
West Coast Railways are separately facing charges under sections 3 and 2 of the Health and Safety at Work Act. This is on the basis of its alleged failure to implement managerial controls, procedures, training and monitoring to prevent staff turning off the TPWS equipment. If found guilty on the above charges west Coast Railways could face very heavy financial penalties together with having to pay the costs of the court and the office of road and rail investigation cost
It has been reported that in its last financial statement to Companies House, West Coast Railways declared its total asset and cash value as being less than £800,000.
Bill
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Hi everybody
It is being reported on the BBC News website this evening (Friday 22nd April 2016) that West Coast Railways are again being investigated by Network Rail in regards to a further safety incident. The foregoing occurrence took place at Bath Spa Station on the 13th of April and involved a steam heritage service moving suddenly forward along the platform while the doors of the train where open and passengers were boarding and exiting the service.
Network Rail are refusing to confirm or deny that they are investigating such an incident, but documents leaked to the BBC from within the department definitely confirm that such an investigation is taking place.
Reports from those to witnessed the incident advise that the train pulled up “short” of the destination with several carriages still not situated alongside the designated platform. However, doors were opened on the coaches situated adjacent to the platform and passengers started to board and leave the service. It was then (according to reports) that the train suddenly moved forward without any prior warning.
The above has taken place within just over two weeks of a second ban being lifted in regards to UK network operations by West Coast Railways. A similar incident had taken place previously at another station, which among other matters had led to the second ban restriction of the company from the network.
In all the above it must be obvious to anyone who takes seriously Britain's rail safety, that this company and its employees have no regard what so ever for the safety of the person they are transporting, or anyone else who may be using Britain's rail infrastructure while they are carrying out their operations.
West Coast Railways had already lost all credibility in many rail users eyes due to It's history of previous safety incidents. However, allowing this company to continue mainline services draws into question the whole credibility of the management and operation of the UK rail network especially in terms of its safety requirements.
In regards to all the above, Is it not time for the UK Health and safety Executive as the body who holds overall responsibility for workplace safety in Britain to launch a full investigation into the running and handling of this company's operations on the mainline network. I for one also feel that such an investigation should be carried out by an independent body of persons not attached to or employed in the rail industry.
Let us all find out what is really going on in this “stinking” matter.
Bill
It is being reported on the BBC News website this evening (Friday 22nd April 2016) that West Coast Railways are again being investigated by Network Rail in regards to a further safety incident. The foregoing occurrence took place at Bath Spa Station on the 13th of April and involved a steam heritage service moving suddenly forward along the platform while the doors of the train where open and passengers were boarding and exiting the service.
Network Rail are refusing to confirm or deny that they are investigating such an incident, but documents leaked to the BBC from within the department definitely confirm that such an investigation is taking place.
Reports from those to witnessed the incident advise that the train pulled up “short” of the destination with several carriages still not situated alongside the designated platform. However, doors were opened on the coaches situated adjacent to the platform and passengers started to board and leave the service. It was then (according to reports) that the train suddenly moved forward without any prior warning.
The above has taken place within just over two weeks of a second ban being lifted in regards to UK network operations by West Coast Railways. A similar incident had taken place previously at another station, which among other matters had led to the second ban restriction of the company from the network.
In all the above it must be obvious to anyone who takes seriously Britain's rail safety, that this company and its employees have no regard what so ever for the safety of the person they are transporting, or anyone else who may be using Britain's rail infrastructure while they are carrying out their operations.
West Coast Railways had already lost all credibility in many rail users eyes due to It's history of previous safety incidents. However, allowing this company to continue mainline services draws into question the whole credibility of the management and operation of the UK rail network especially in terms of its safety requirements.
In regards to all the above, Is it not time for the UK Health and safety Executive as the body who holds overall responsibility for workplace safety in Britain to launch a full investigation into the running and handling of this company's operations on the mainline network. I for one also feel that such an investigation should be carried out by an independent body of persons not attached to or employed in the rail industry.
Let us all find out what is really going on in this “stinking” matter.
Bill
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Old news - Copy of NR incident log here http://www.national-preservation.com/members/buseng.146/
Driver was apparently a GWR employee and it wasn't a Steam Rail tour either, class 47's don't run very well on coal. However a few questions arise from reading that log!
Lets put this in perspective and compare it to the 8 incidents under investigation this year that are nothing to do with Heritage Rail tours.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...current-investigations#current-investigations.
Driver was apparently a GWR employee and it wasn't a Steam Rail tour either, class 47's don't run very well on coal. However a few questions arise from reading that log!
Lets put this in perspective and compare it to the 8 incidents under investigation this year that are nothing to do with Heritage Rail tours.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...current-investigations#current-investigations.
Clam1952, many thanks for pointing out in your above posting that the heritage service in question was being hauled by a diesel locomotive rather than steam. That stated, I fail to see how the driver could have been a GWR employee as that company has not existed since 1948 and therefore allowing for the driver being at least 20 years old at the time of the GWR demise he would be at least 88 years old now (LOL).
Also clam1952 with the greatest respect to your above posting, there are as you point out there are eight current incident investigations being carried out by the Rail Accident Investigation board in conjunction with network rail. However, those 8 investigations are spread over the 28 different train operating companies which are currently operating within the UK with many running thousands of miles each day.
So, to put the above into perspective as you asked in your posting, you have in the last twelve months eight investigations created by the 27 other train operators, against the seven investigations in total which have been created by one single company ( notably West Coast Railways heritage operations) on the mainline.
Again with every respect clam1952, I feel the above very much puts into perspective the excellent safety records of other major train operating companies as opposed to the disgusting and continuing safety record of West Coast Railways.
The incident at Bath again brings into question whether the mark one coaches can in any respect be safely operated on the UK mainline due to the lack of a central door locking system which can be operated by the train manager. The foregoing it seems very much contributed to the incident at Bath Spa, which I am sure will be part of the investigation.
Bill
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Hi everybody
I am afraid I have to disagree with the above teddyfoot. The full official name of the TOC is First Great Western. They are a subsidiary of First Group a large British public transport company involved in bus, coach and rail operations. First Great Western is the name you will find on any restriction ticket (other than an open ticket). I am aware of this as I travel many miles on their services each week by way of living in North Somerset.
Therefore GWR does not exist but the name of the mainline from London to the West Country is the Great Western Mainline which First Group advertise.
Bill
I am afraid I have to disagree with the above teddyfoot. The full official name of the TOC is First Great Western. They are a subsidiary of First Group a large British public transport company involved in bus, coach and rail operations. First Great Western is the name you will find on any restriction ticket (other than an open ticket). I am aware of this as I travel many miles on their services each week by way of living in North Somerset.
Therefore GWR does not exist but the name of the mainline from London to the West Country is the Great Western Mainline which First Group advertise.
Bill
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