Reversing train direction and automatic grade crossings

[Approach_Medium]

Hi;
I recall that, if one is using the ATLS system to control a grade (level) crossing, and a train is reversed on or near the crossing - once the first trigger has been hit - it will foul up the crossing automation.
I don't know what happens if the native system is used (without any triggers), but that system is unacceptable to me because it is anything but prototypical.

I have in the past made a couple minor attempts to read the code that controlls the ATLS triggers, slaves, and controllers so that I might modify it to work under all situations, but I never got very far.

Has anyone taken a look at this, and perhaps come up with a more prototypical system (one that will work bi-directionally under all conditions)?
If not, perhaps I might take another look at this.

CP

 

[rgcx]

This game is all about choices. There isn't a perfect set up. Most people choose ATLS because you can have a grade x-ing at any angle with preferred warning device; otherwise you have to use limited choices of rigid x-ing angles and warning devices.

 

[scratchy]

After Mike showed me the TRC crossing system I've used that and never gone back, its got some really cool features and once you figure it out its easier to install. You do have to use the TRC gates and lights for it to work though.

 

[RHKluckhohn]

Try Atilabarut's "My Level Crossings"

An alternative to ATLS is atilabarut's My Level Crossings-3. It's a rule that goes in the session setup. The one rule handles any number of crossings. Complete instructions are provided in the rule itself. The "physical" assets are an invisible train and your choice of crossings or crossing devices, including the ATLS Traffic Stopper. It needs only one trigger per track, a named trackmark and some invisible track. Physical setup is similar to ATLS but without a controller.

I find it easier to set up than either ATLS or TRC and it provides much more prototypical crossing response than ATLS. [FONT=&quot]I've only looked [/FONT][FONT=&quot]at the promo for TRC but even from that it looks far more complicated than ATLS or the Atilacrossing.[/FONT]

I modified the rule slightly for really tight quarters and that's on the DLC at My Level Crossings-3a, with a minimum release distance of 10 meters. (The original has a minimum release distance of 25 meters.) With either version, if you set the closing speed to 0, the crossing stays closed even if you stop a train on it. You can reverse in the active zone ad lib with no repercussions. The zone can extend to as much as a mile, 1600 meters, if memory serves.

You can use either a conventional trigger or, as I have, use a named Sound Horn Bi-directional to trigger the crossing.

I started out using the ATLS but many of the crossings on my Fond Du Lac Branch route are close to sidings, spurs and yards -- one major crossing is in the middle of a yard -- and as you've found, it just doesn't deal with that. Wish I'd started with the Atilacrossings; they are gradually being replaced.

:B~)

 

[stagecoach]

ATLS triggers can be set to train priority so untick 3 and all priority 3 trains will be ignored. So use the priority command to set priority to 3 and set triggers to not except 3 and trains can move around as prototypical. In yards I don't use triggers but use the ATLS commands to control the gates. My Advanced ATLS demo shows a train stop at a level crossing at the end of a platform without the gates being activated and a siding with ATLS commands being used.

 

[KenRuof]

An alternative to ATLS is atilabarut's My Level Crossings-3. It's a rule that goes in the session setup. The one rule handles any number of crossings. Complete instructions are provided in the rule itself. The "physical" assets are an invisible train and your choice of crossings or crossing devices, including the ATLS Traffic Stopper. It needs only one trigger per track, a named trackmark and some invisible track. Physical setup is similar to ATLS but without a controller.

I find it easier to set up than either ATLS or TRC and it provides much more prototypical crossing response than ATLS. I've only looked at the promo for TRC but even from that it looks far more complicated than ATLS or the Atilacrossing.

I modified the rule slightly for really tight quarters and that's on the DLC at My Level Crossings-3a, with a minimum release distance of 10 meters. (The original has a minimum release distance of 25 meters.) With either version, if you set the closing speed to 0, the crossing stays closed even if you stop a train on it. You can reverse in the active zone ad lib with no repercussions. The zone can extend to as much as a mile, 1600 meters, if memory serves.

You can use either a conventional trigger or, as I have, use a named Sound Horn Bi-directional to trigger the crossing.

I started out using the ATLS but many of the crossings on my Fond Du Lac Branch route are close to sidings, spurs and yards -- one major crossing is in the middle of a yard -- and as you've found, it just doesn't deal with that. Wish I'd started with the Atilacrossings; they are gradually being replaced.

:B~)

I like the "My level crossing" system but I have one problem with it. It does not function from a saved session. Have you gotten it to work?

I do like the TRC system but I get bugs when shifting a yard or industry near the crossing. I have problem if I stop the train and change directions. Vincentrh does have some nice crossing gates to go with it.

 

[Approach_Medium]

Thanks guys; I'll try both alternatives to see which I like best.

 

[RHKluckhohn]

I like the "My level crossing" system but I have one problem with it. It does not function from a saved session. Have you gotten it to work?

I have not tested that exhaustively and usually run a session straight through, but on the one or two occasions I have continued a saved session, I have not noticed any such issue. I'll keep my eyes open.

I've had no problems with cutting and pasting the rule, with settings, from one session to another. I'd think that would be more disruptive, but.. <shrug>

What version of Trainz are you running in? I've only tried it in 12 so far.

:B~)

 

[KenRuof]

I have not tested that exhaustively and usually run a session straight through, but on the one or two occasions I have continued a saved session, I have not noticed any such issue. I'll keep my eyes open.

I've had no problems with cutting and pasting the rule, with settings, from one session to another. I'd think that would be more disruptive, but.. <shrug>

What version of Trainz are you running in? I've only tried it in 12 so far.

:B~)

I am using TANE with SP1, I have also noticed this issue with other rules like the ordered list, schedule at track mark to name a few.

 

[RHKluckhohn]

I am using TANE with SP1, I have also noticed this issue with other rules like the ordered list, schedule at track mark to name a few.

I know there are Trainzers running my Fond Du Lac Branch route in T:ANE but I know nothing of their experiences with it. I'm still working in 12 to create sessions and route improvements. That's where all my experience is with custom crossing systems.

From what you say, I'd suspect this is something more general that should be addressed with a trouble ticket. Have you researched the T:ANE development posts to see if anyone else has cited this problem? Have you ported your sessions up from an earlier version?

:B~)

 

[epa]

Or you could do it the easy way, connect the components with invisible track of your choice, extend it a little ways beyond the crossing and place a switch. Put an invisible loco on one leg of the switch, and set the default switch position opposite the invisiloco. When your train approaches the crossing, go to the crossing in freeview mode (or from the map view) and flip the switch. The crossing will activate. Of course, you need to be there to deactivate the crossing afterwards. It's not the best system ever, but it's good for people like me who are far too lazy to set up proper ATLS, or if you get confused with umpteen ATLS setups on your route.

Matt

 

[KenRuof]

I know there are Trainzers running my Fond Du Lac Branch route in T:ANE but I know nothing of their experiences with it. I'm still working in 12 to create sessions and route improvements. That's where all my experience is with custom crossing systems.

From what you say, I'd suspect this is something more general that should be addressed with a trouble ticket. Have you researched the T:ANE development posts to see if anyone else has cited this problem? Have you ported your sessions up from an earlier version?

:B~)

I have not done a search, I'm to tired to bother. If it don't work I stop using it. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[RHKluckhohn]

I have not done a search, I'm to tired to bother. If it don't work I stop using it. Thanks for the suggestions.

I can relate to that! But you might try updating to SP2. They fixed a bunch of stuff. Again, I can't speak from experience with this particular issue.

:B~)

 

[MTH_ELECTRIC_TRAINS]

I actually tested the ATLS crossing system again the other day to see how well it really works in switching situations. I figured out you NEED to pull 1 or 2 cars or locos past the activation trigger then reverse. Doing this will turn off the crossing instead of it staying on and essentially braking.

Approach Medium: I actually have suggested a ATLS control box already in the "Suggestions" section along with a one way traffic stopper. I think ATLS crossings could really use a control box of some sort so we, the players, can actually turn the crossing on and off when needed. I love ATLS crossings for their simplicity and versatility. However, there are times they just don't work properly and that of course is usually when you are switching.

 

[boat]

Hi MTH,

I just posted in your 'suggestions section'. The gist of it is as follows....

If you are having problems with shunting/switching trains in the area, the easiest method is to give that train a different ‘Priority’ number. Trains in Trainz default to Priority 2. This can be changed in Surveyor using the ‘?’ button and clicking on the train. Change it to (say) Priority 3. Then go into the ATLS Triggers used for the crossing, press ‘?’, click on the trigger and switch off the triggers for that crossing to (in this case) Priority 3. (Third line down on the Trigger instructions). The triggers and thus the crossing will now ignore that train and you can cross them as many time as you like. If you need to activate that crossing with that train later, you can always use an ATLS driver command.

The only problem there may be is if you do a lot of coupling and un coupling, as each time you do that it becomes a different train. Trainz may re-allocate each ‘new’ train to Priority 2. (not checked). So maybe it’s best to give all your through trains Priority 1 or 3 and turn the Triggers off for Priority 2 ???

Hope that helps,

Boat

PS – Trainz calls this function ‘Priority’. I think ‘Category’ might be a clearer label!

 

[MTH_ELECTRIC_TRAINS]

Hi MTH,

I just posted in your 'suggestions section'. The gist of it is as follows....

If you are having problems with shunting/switching trains in the area, the easiest method is to give that train a different ‘Priority’ number. Trains in Trainz default to Priority 2. This can be changed in Surveyor using the ‘?’ button and clicking on the train. Change it to (say) Priority 3. Then go into the ATLS Triggers used for the crossing, press ‘?’, click on the trigger and switch off the triggers for that crossing to (in this case) Priority 3. (Third line down on the Trigger instructions). The triggers and thus the crossing will now ignore that train and you can cross them as many time as you like. If you need to activate that crossing with that train later, you can always use an ATLS driver command.

The only problem there may be is if you do a lot of coupling and un coupling, as each time you do that it becomes a different train. Trainz may re-allocate each ‘new’ train to Priority 2. (not checked). So maybe it’s best to give all your through trains Priority 1 or 3 and turn the Triggers off for Priority 2 ???

Hope that helps,

Boat

PS – Trainz calls this function ‘Priority’. I think ‘Category’ might be a clearer label!

It seems like it is very complex to setup an ATLS crossing that uses the command instead of the triggers.

 

[boat]

It seems like it is very complex to setup an ATLS crossing that uses the command instead of the triggers.

Not really. An ATLS Driver Command in the schedule has exactly the same effect as the train running over a Trigger. You could take the train to the Trigger you have de-activated for that train and possibly add an ATLS Driver Command on the fly. Depends what else you have in your Schedule. Just treat the Driver Command as a Trigger. One Driver Command and running across 3 activated Triggers is the same as running across 4 triggers.

 

[stagecoach]

MTH_ELECTRIC_TRAINS
This could go on for ages as there are different ways to set up dependant on the layout and what you want to happen. A diagram or screenshot of the area around the crossing would be the best way to see what could be done. My ATLS Advanced Demo has a crossing in a yard also at the end of a platform. The train passes via a TM on its way to the yard and is followed by the set priority driver command 3. An ATLS 2 mode set trigger into the yard will only activate for priority 3 trains. An ATLS Leave trigger set to priority 3 inside the yard. This will close the gate but allow trains to cross in the yard without activating the gate. To leave the yard use an ATLS driver command to open the gate, the gate will close after it passes the outside trigger.

Driver commands to enter and leave a yard.

Drive via TM A or after any other command that is used before the train reaches the yard.
Set priority 3
Train enters the yard
Train leaves the yard
ATLS 2 Trigger mode
Drive via TM B or after the first driver command once left the yard.
Set priority 2

 

[MTH_ELECTRIC_TRAINS]

MTH_ELECTRIC_TRAINS
This could go on for ages as there are different ways to set up dependant on the layout and what you want to happen. A diagram or screenshot of the area around the crossing would be the best way to see what could be done. My ATLS Advanced Demo has a crossing in a yard also at the end of a platform. The train passes via a TM on its way to the yard and is followed by the set priority driver command 3. An ATLS 2 mode set trigger into the yard will only activate for priority 3 trains. An ATLS Leave trigger set to priority 3 inside the yard. This will close the gate but allow trains to cross in the yard without activating the gate. To leave the yard use an ATLS driver command to open the gate, the gate will close after it passes the outside trigger.

Driver commands to enter and leave a yard.

Drive via TM A or after any other command that is used before the train reaches the yard.
Set priority 3
Train enters the yard
Train leaves the yard
ATLS 2 Trigger mode
Drive via TM B or after the first driver command once left the yard.
Set priority 2

I don't actually have a route, I am just speculating a switching scenario with a crossing that is right in the middle of switching operations. By the way, if you CTRL Right Click on a train in Driver, you CAN change the priority from 2 to 1 or 3. So how does the command work exactly? From looking at the description of it is sounds like you need to know coding or something because the command needs the KUID input table or do you just need to quickly add the triggers to the KUID table? In short, is it coding you need to do or just a "add ATLS trigger" kind of system?

 

[maruffijd]

I don't actually have a route, I am just speculating a switching scenario with a crossing that is right in the middle of switching operations. By the way, if you CTRL Right Click on a train in Driver, you CAN change the priority from 2 to 1 or 3. So how does the command work exactly? From looking at the description of it is sounds like you need to know coding or something because the command needs the KUID input table or do you just need to quickly add the triggers to the KUID table? In short, is it coding you need to do or just a "add ATLS trigger" kind of system?

Not that complex, The priority command is simply a single driver command that when "activated" does exactly the same as the CTL+R-click>manual set priority thing. It is faster to set, fire, and forget then to manually change the priority. No need to play with codes, or KUID tables.