Rail Enthusiasm versus The Future

J

johnnytrain

Member
A whimsical drift here, but... In the UK physical railway modelling seems to be on the decline. In the past month or two one of the big exhibitions has been cancelled and a major retailer of railway models has run down the curtain and is singin' with the choir -invisible. I will be visiting the annual ModelRail Exhibition in Glasgow in a couple of weeks' time, but I have certainly noticed in past years the trend towards it being the preserve of older men (very few older women). On railtours the same demographic is manifest... the Greybeards and Pensioners' express, next stop Pearly Gate Central. All of which begs the question - is the station clock ticking down the demise of railway (railroad if you prefer) enthusiasm? Will the crossing gates swing shut as the last lantern splutters into darkness? Or is virtual modelling (as per TRAINZ) defying the trend and carrying the paraffin lamp of modelling, and the concomitant love of the iron road, to the next generation?
 
I don't know but from anecdotal evidence, the demise of model railways has been predicted for as long as I remember and from stories my father told, even before that. I think the waxing and waning of interest is normal for this hobby as well as many others. Now except for the simple starter sets and Christmas loops, building a decent layout takes some serious coin as well as space, something that young people rarely have. Back in the day, there were physical layouts or nothing so that's were those with an interest went. Not today - with the current generation almost born with cellphone in hand. All of which gives virtual types like Trainz a foot in the door and a chance to get them early before they get hooked on the physical versions
 
martinvk said:
I don't know but from anecdotal evidence, the demise of model railways has been predicted for as long as I remember and from stories my father told, even before that. I think the waxing and waning of interest is normal for this hobby as well as many others. Now except for the simple starter sets and Christmas loops, building a decent layout takes some serious coin as well as space, something that young people rarely have. Back in the day, there were physical layouts or nothing so that's were those with an interest went. Not today - with the current generation almost born with cellphone in hand. All of which gives virtual types like Trainz a foot in the door and a chance to get them early before they get hooked on the physical versions
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I hope that's the case. The cost of physical layouts is an issue certainly; there is no way under the sun that I could have a real-life layout and even if I could afford it, the wife would object and derail my consists with her rolling pin. But (and I speak purely from a UK perspective) I sense a generational change: something on the wind as per the end of Dirty Dancing. But as I say - maybe virtual rail modelling is the guy in the white hat.
 
It's said that what you do in your first childhood you repeat in your second and while I hate to admit it, now well in to my 70's its certainly becoming true. As children we didn't just have a model railway, in the 50's we enjoyed the real thing, getting close to the locomotives, playing in the goods sidings and going home dirty from soot. Today's DMU's just don't have the same appeal and the model shop we spent so many hours looking in the window of, dreaming of our next purchase like the real trains we enjoyed have long gone. Not that I have the space or finance these days to rebuild what I parted with when I left home as a 16 year old to start work. But would I really want to? Sick of listening to stories of my childhood my daughter purchased my first copy of Trainz in 2004, and I guess the rest is history. Modelling with cardboard, sticky tape and so forth has moved on to the computer and the Internet, the forums have replaced the club house but the challenges, frustrations, enjoyment and company are all till there. Today my 5 year old granddaughter is as keen driving Trainz as I was an OO gauge clockwork train when I was her age. I hear its called progress. Peter
 
johnnytrain said:
I hope that's the case. The cost of physical layouts is an issue certainly; there is no way under the sun that I could have a real-life layout and even if I could afford it, the wife would object and derail my consists with her rolling pin. But (and I speak purely from a UK perspective) I sense a generational change: something on the wind as per the end of Dirty Dancing. But as I say - maybe virtual rail modelling is the guy in the white hat.
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There will always be people who like to physically have stuff in their hands, whether it be model trains, woodworking, gardening, etc. The question is will there be enough paying folks to keep the 'industry' going.
 
As for the demise/decline of interest in railroading as a hobby, and that it is a (shrinking) preserve of the "Senior Set" I offer the following anecdote that I observed on a steam train rail fan trip some years ago.

We arrived at a regional station for a short break and many of us took the opportunity to stretch our legs and take in the station ambience. While standing on the platform next to one of the historic wooden rail cars that made up the consist a young man (late teens) who was not one of the passengers arrived on the platform carrying a tape measure and a notebook. He proceeded to measure and record the dimensions of the windows and doorway on the carriage immediately in front of where I and a group of other "Senior Set" members from the tour were standing. On seeing our bemusement he remarked that he was creating a computer model of this particular rail car and needed to get the dimensions right.
 
This part of why I (as an armchair CEO) think N3V should lean into their legacy of being a model railroad(way) simulator. Or perhaps MRSplus given that one need no longer be constrained by the perimeter of ones basement or attic or garage.

Not to say realistic things should be shunned, I used to love getting down to eye level with real models on the go and when cameras first appeared in model trains I thought that was fun, so having the freedoms to ride inside, to have trees and grass that rustle and wave without a Rube Goldberg machine under the plywood is an additional advantage to my mind.

Still I feel all decisions to pursue "realism" should be viewed thru the lens of making a model, not simulating.

Just my 2(insert the smallest denomiation of local currency here).
 
As I have said elsewhere, @frogpipe, the two reasons that I like Trainz so bleeping much are (1) that it /extremely/ programable with gamescript and (2) that it is the only model railroad simulator that I have ever encountered. As much as realism is desirable, it is the realism of a /model/ railroad that attracts me; /real/ railroad simulators just don`t.
 
Part of the reason for the slow demise is cost.

About 5 years ago, Steamboateng, my brother and I attended the famous Amherst Model Railroad Show at the Big-E convention center. There were sales but not at the volume we'd expect. One of the dealers had Thomas layouts for sale. These looked nice but the smallest set cost $100 and was obviously meant for a collector and not a child to play with.

Trains and other models today are made in limited edition runs that bring a premium price. What used to be prices everyone could afford were not in that realm any longer. An N-scale diesel used to go for a mere $35. Today, they start in the hundreds. A single passenger car of some famous-named railroad used to be $7.95. Today, they go for $25.00 or more for a single passenger car.

The modeler today isn't a family with a dad who is interested in modeling trains and builds a layout in the basement and gets his son or sons involved with the hobby. Today, the modeler is a wealthy retiree living his second childhood spending his retirement money, usually a substantial amount coming on from his stock portfolio and 401K investments on his hobbies. For this crowd, the models are yet another investment that stays packaged up and sits on shelves to mature for another time when they can be sold and will never see track under the wheels, or children smiling ear to ear as they see the models move through a nicely landscaped model layout.
 
I cannot "Like" your post, @JCitron, because I do not /like/ it. On the other hand, I find it entirely too plausible. Depressingly so, which is never good for someone with any amount of clinical depression.
 
Sadly true. I was looking in a model railroading magazine the other day. My best memories are from the Northern Pacific North Coast Limited in two-tone green, and I found some coaches for sale HO scale for $35 each. So, to collect a ten-car consist would run $350 without the A and B engines. Ouch. Because the engines are probably close to $100 each. N-gauge might be less if I could find them, but even those engines are expensive. Not something for the shelf in the den.
 
Don’t forget inflation, people.

Yes, prices went up, but a doubling in price every 10-20 years (even in the western world) is caused by inflation.

That $100 Thomas train set is “normal” for (some) kids now.
I try not to spoil my kids and get shocked by what toys costs these days but the comparison to “what I used to pay” goes completely wrong if you don’t at least consider a serious part of it is inflation.

That and homes getting smaller (and also “our kids and wife take up more space”). I have a rather decent size home compared to the national average and the only way I could put down my old Marklin train is if I store one of my kids or my wife in the garden.
 
frogpipe said:
This part of why I (as an armchair CEO) think N3V should lean into their legacy of being a model railroad(way) simulator. Or perhaps MRSplus given that one need no longer be constrained by the perimeter of ones basement or attic or garage.

Not to say realistic things should be shunned, I used to love getting down to eye level with real models on the go and when cameras first appeared in model trains I thought that was fun, so having the freedoms to ride inside, to have trees and grass that rustle and wave without a Rube Goldberg machine under the plywood is an additional advantage to my mind.

Still I feel all decisions to pursue "realism" should be viewed thru the lens of making a model, not simulating.

Just my 2(insert the smallest denomiation of local currency here).
Click to expand...

Up until now I hadn't got to grips with the differentiation between VR Model Layouts vs VR 'Real' layouts and was flummoxed by TRAINZ offering both: after all - isn't the objective of traditional modelling to create reality on a tabletop? BUT you make a very persuasive point. I suppose it boils down to rail simulating being different things to different people: (iron) horses for courses. I'll be making a point of speaking to the modellers at the ModelRail in Glasgow in a couple of weeks and distilling what they tell me. Then I'll feel guilty for supping with the VR De'il and regret not being one of them and doing more to support them and the loving care they have for the smallest atom of the physical product they sculpt and glue and research and paint and painstakingly put in place. They do unbelievable things with varnish and bits of old carpet. Sadly I swear there are less of them every year and it'll be a grievous loss when they've collapsed the trestles for the last time and gone home to dwell on happier times and sip cocoa in front of the fire. I think there's more to the demise than just the cost of physical modelling - it's a generational thing and youngsters just aren't invested in the romance of railways any more; in fact modern railways just don't have that romance. Buggleskelly and Brief Encounters and Titfield Thunderbolts have been pushed into the shadows cast by the glare of fluorescent strip lighting and sidelined by bottom lines and budgets and the quest for efficiency and so on... I'm rambling but you get my gist. Anyway, thank you to N3V for TRAINZ whereby the spirit lives on (when do we get the headset version?).
 
I'm from the younger generations and this is my views/takes on the digital and physical trains:

physical:
* its expensive - toss in just the prices of model themselves and already there is like half of a paycheck in todays world. Several already mentioned the prices of rolling stock and engines so I won't repeat it.
* space - if you have the space then that's good but most people don't have the space.
* usually the upper age people and wealthy - this is what majority of the younger people see when there are model trains setup. I hardly ever see younger people operating trains at train shows in my area but I do see young people usually with their families. Back in 2018/19 (forgot the year) at the Trainfest show there was a buy that bought in a Raildriver unit and TRS2006 on a modified session for Marias Pass Plus for people to drive trains on. When I drove the train there where a lot of younger people gathered around watching. I'd say if I where to do the same thing at a train show with either a Trainz route or Run8 then I would have a some younger people gathered around. okay got a bit sidetracked here...
* time - some younger people have the time and others don't and when they do they don't want to work on a grid.

For me personally, I have too much invested in my N scale collection but have no layout due to space limitations so I've joined an N scale club to run my trains on there when time permits. Personally I want to build in N scale a Chicago themed route in the far future when lumbe becomes cheaper than what it is now and when I have more space (which is really the showstopper).

digital:
* cheap - sure the base game is $70 but that's pretty much it. You can then go wild with whatever you want without worrying about having to buy additional rolling stock, engines, scenery, etc. Additiional payware engines are what? Usually $15 and majority of rolling stock free?
* space - an average prototype route is about 500MB and can be built 1:1 if you want without space restrictions. The same can be said for virtual model train routes where spaec isn't an issue. Need more? Just add more wall assets and baseboards and that's it (wish it was this easy in the real world).
* you can share your layout if you want if the train game permits (other train games besides Trainz)
I know there are other things that I'm listing.


A real life example: when Cov19 hit, as we all know it everything closed up and went out of business. I've been part of a few guys that went to a physical train club layout but since they weren't open anymore majority of us went over to Run8 and used the southern California route as our new layout to have Friday night operating sessions on. I haven't been attending them since 2020 but from what I've been hearing they been continuing to do so today with a few going back to the physical layouts and others doing both when their clubs where allowed to reopen.

My two cents on this.

Cheers
 
Model railroading is an affordable hobby even in today's world. A person can start cheap if they look for used track and trains. Train shows is where to look instead of the brick-and-mortar store. You can pick up new and used items for as much as 50% off or more. Size is not really an issue because one can always build a shelf layout if they don't have the room for regular layout. N, Z, and TT Scale are options also if room is a problem. Also, one can build a briefcase layout. Take in a train show and see how affordable model railroading can be.
Alco_P-A
bigboytrainsandhobbies.com
 
I don't think the demise is coming, however I think that the different demographics are into different aspects of railroading. Trainspotting is quite popular with the younger generation of railfans around here (although they're taking pictures/videos more than writing down numbers). The model train club I'm on the board of has had quite the influx of younger members in the last few years & we're seeing more and more younger people express interest in joining. The train shows/swap meets around here see quite a wide range of demographics; even in the sellers which up until recently was primarily the older generation. I think 3D printing has changed that, as a lot of the younger vendors are selling 3D printed stuff for your layouts.

As for more of the "traditional" train ride activities I do think that those are less common in the younger generation. I think a big part of it is cost; us Gen-Y, Millennials, & Gen-z don't have as much extra spending money to splurge on expensive "railfan" train rides. A local steam railroad's Christmas trips... which is less than an hour on the train tickets started at about USD 100 for basic coach! I personally would rather spend that on model trains rather than riding.

peter
 
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