Need a good name for a fictional railroad

I sort of came up with one for the DL-109s and then adapted it for the other first generation diesels. It's the New Haven orange and green scheme, but the orange is replaced with blue, the stripes are silver, and the roof is back. It's easy to adopt that kind of three color scheme to first gen diesels. Road switchers are painted black with warning stripes and yard switchers are painted black. If you want, you could come up with a simplified scheme for the second generation diesels. Here is the roster sans amount of units owned.

Motive Power Roster (1970):
Alco C424 (20)
Alco C425 (25)
Alco C630 (27)
Alco C628 (45)
Alco RS-2 (30)
Alco RS-3 (37)
Alco RS-27 (39)
Alco FA/FB
EMD F3
EMD F7
EMD E7
EMD GP9
EMD GP30
EMD GP40
EMD SD9
EMD SD45
EMD SDP45
EMD NW2
EMD SW7
GE U23b
 
How about extending the electrification from the mountains of Pennsylvania east to the end of the line, along with eventually the entire railroad being electrified by the end of the 20th century? You could then have high speed trains like the TGV or Eurostar hauling passengers across the Midwest, with electrics such as the Milwaukee Road's Little Joes hauling freight, Electric Multiple Units (EMU) hauling commuters in the Northeast and the Midwest, and high speed trains such as Virgin Rail's Pendolino hauling passengers across the mountainous areas of Pennsylvania. The electricity would be 12 kilovolts (KV) AC at 25 hertz (HZ) into New York City, while 25 kilovolts AC at 60 hertz into Boston. The electricity on AMTRAK's Northeast Corridor (NEC) is 12KV AC at 25HZ between New York and Washington, D.C., which would allow your railroads high speed trains to run from Chicago to New York and/or Washington, D.C. The NEC is 25KV AC at 60HZ between Boston and New Haven, Connecticut, so the High Speed trains can run over the majority of the NEC.
 
Nah, I'm more into the idea of electrifying one district, and only with helpers at that, because I like steam locomotives and first generation cab units. With electrifying one district, I can run some of Pweiser's electrics and get to run steam locomotives at the same time.
There's also the practical side of things. A railroad this size would never be profitable in the 50's and 60's in the northeast, especially with the saturated markets that it serves. Copper was too expensive, and a mass-electrification project would be extremely expensive, and almost impossible for a railroad to complete. Then there's a financial view which, for my railroad doesn't look to good after the mid 50's. The main thing from then on would be improving the bottom line and getting the railroad in the black again.
I've never really been one for the Eurostar, the Pendolino, and the TGV. I personally think they look ugly.
The Little Joes were DC powered, although that can be changed by simply saying that they are repowered. I think that they would look out of place on my railroad though.
I already have high speed trains! Across the western divisions of my railroad, the passenger trackspeed (in 1939 before the ICC mandated the use of special signaling for trains exceeding 79mph after the Naperville train disaster) is 90mph in some areas!

All the same, thanks for the suggestions!

Another thing about my railroad:
The LE&E operated many unnamed passenger trains, but starting in 1923, the railroad started operating trains from Cleveland to Boston and New York that coincided with transatlantic steamship traffic. The railroad's station in New York City, located on the Hudson, doubled as a ship dock for certain steamship lines, hence the relationship between the railroad and the steamship lines. In the mid-40's, with the first regular scheduling of transatlantic flights by Pan Am, the steamship trains fell out of favor. The last one would depart Cleveland in 1949.

Yet another train, the South American Clipper was introduced in in 1939 to as a nonstop service between Cincinnati/Chicago and Boston. From South Station, passengers were bussed to Jeffery Field (later known as Boston Logan International Airport), where they would board Pan Am's Clipper aircraft bound for South America. Alas, with the coming of the Jet Airliner, these trains met the same fate as the Steamship and Zeppelin trains, as Pan Am began serving many more cities than it had previously. All of the sudden, other modes of transportation didn't need railroads to funnel passengers to them.



One last note. There's a modeler's saying out there:
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anachronisms, detail discrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!

Everyone with fictional railroads should live by this. Remember, it's your way of doing things, and while suggestions are nice, in fact, for me, they are encouraged, it's always the "owner" of the fictional railroad that makes the call in the end. :)
 
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I like Jackson's idea of running a sub-section of electrified railroad. This isn't much different then what the New Haven, Milwaukee Road, or even the Boston and Maine did. The B&M, did this for a tiny portion through the Hoosac Tunnel to North Adams. They used big box motors designed in conjunction with the New Haven. In fact they were based on the NH's box motor electric locomotives. This service only lasted a bit more than 40 years, and was discontinued once diesels became dominant on the system. It existed due to the horrid smoke conditions in the Hoosac Tunnel.

In the US the only company to electrify a large section of its route was the Pennsylvania, and then that wasn't really that long compared to what the Milwaukee Railroad had on the Pacific Extension with its two electrified divisions. As has been pointed out electrification was very, very expensive and still is today due to the copper and other components needed during construction. The MILW's electric division didn't even last that long due to the aging components and cost of maintenance that the MILW was not interested in performing. This is a whole other sad story about management sucking what they can out of a company, but we can discuss that in another thread at another time...

Anyway... Jackson, any reason why there are no Baldwin diesels or Fairbanks Morse units on your system? Many Midwestern and Northeastern railroads had at least a smattering of them even if they weren't the dominant units on the road. From what I read the Baldwin switchers were known for their pulling power compared to the early Alco and EMD equivalents. Besides, there's that cool factor that goes along with them too. :)

John
 
I would have loved to put more, but the later time-frame (around when the railroad re-equipped their passenger trains postwar, so 1948) is too early for the C liners and trainmasters. I have the baldwin babyface cabs and passenger units on the roster, along with FM Erie builts and H-10-44s. I would have loved to put some Lima units on there as well, but they started turning them out in 1950! Pretty late in the game if you ask me, no wonder they went under so quickly. I need to get some Baldwin switchers on the roster though, thanks for reminding me!

John, did you ever notice that the Milwaukee Road, the B&M, and the New Haven (also the PRR for that matter) went through stretches of bad management in crucial times in their financial histories in the 50's and 60's. If they didn't screw things up so much, maybe we would have a more successful and coherent system of railroads now, or at least those companies could have postponed the inevitable for a while longer.
 
Ok, I've been working with what you gave me and this is what I got for F units so far, I have another scheme in mind so don't think this is my final scheme, I'm not to sure about the loop at the top behind the horn but it can be easily removed.
9nf330h.png


Note that it is a W.I.P. and changes can still be made, with that in mind, what do you think?
 
Good, I'm thinking maybe a Lowey curve at the base with notches going all the way to the back of the loco, kinda like a reversed Southern Pacific nose.

EDIT: Like this:
GfZUgc3.png
 
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I like that a lot! The only suggestion that I could make would be to space the stripes out a bit more so the top one underlines the name. One more thing would be to turn the larger stripe into an arrow and have the black portion only come up to the cab. The cab would be black and then the nose could have some other design.
I'l take a look at some of the other designs that LaGrange came up with for F unit paint schemes.

http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/data/OWMac/200772916397_501coaldock.jpg
That's the type of arrow I'm talking about.
 
I think a taper will work better with the bigger grey line, I think the pin striped Lowey curve could use some more work though, it doesn't look right when it extends out as long as the smaller one but it feels weird with the pin stripes being so big...
80omvwN.png


Don't worry, the freight/standard cab scheme will be much simpler.
 
I would have loved to put more, but the later time-frame (around when the railroad re-equipped their passenger trains postwar, so 1948) is too early for the C liners and trainmasters. I have the baldwin babyface cabs and passenger units on the roster, along with FM Erie builts and H-10-44s. I would have loved to put some Lima units on there as well, but they started turning them out in 1950! Pretty late in the game if you ask me, no wonder they went under so quickly. I need to get some Baldwin switchers on the roster though, thanks for reminding me!

John, did you ever notice that the Milwaukee Road, the B&M, and the New Haven (also the PRR for that matter) went through stretches of bad management in crucial times in their financial histories in the 50's and 60's. If they didn't screw things up so much, maybe we would have a more successful and coherent system of railroads now, or at least those companies could have postponed the inevitable for a while longer.

I noticed that too regarding those companies. The greedy stockholder manipulators got their hands on the company and sucked the life out of them. For the B&M and the NH, it was Patrick McGuiness. He ended up going to jail in the end, but by then it was too late. Under him the NH lost its edge as they started to experiment with equipment along with poor maintenance. Sure like many rail companies at the time the NH was looking to change its image and modernize, but at the same time he and his cohorts were doing their best to undermine the company by cutting service, cutting back maintenance, and other crucial operations in the company in favor of fat back pockets.

Once he damaged the NH, he moved on to the B&M and did the same thing. The Pennsy management lived on their laurels. That company was too big to get out of its own way, and sadly I'd say like many big companies rotted out from the inside just like Polaroid and Kodak did - too big to handle changes in their environment, and by the time they got a handle on what was happening, it was too late. In the end they got suckered, or rather due to a desperate last ditch effort to cash out, sold out to their largest competitor the New York Central.

The old Milwaukee Road (sounds like a beer or Cowboy song), was a sad story of greedy management and poor management decisions rather than a company that was completely failing due to conditions. The Pacific Extension was thought to have been their Achilles Heel, however, some people in the rail industry think otherwise. The route is actually faster to the Pacific Northwest than the competing BNSF, formerly Great Northern line that runs the same way. It runs due west to Miles City, MT and then straight up at an angle towards the Cascades and Rocky Mountains. The route was also a newer design and had wide, broad curves and wide roadbeds. It's sad to see this segment in the state it is today. Also contrary to what people said about the line going through the middle of nowhere with few customers. For the MILW, this was the most profitable section of the line due to being the best constructed.

In the 1970s there was a change in management and the new guy in charge was clueless on how to run a railroad. They had been saddled by the debt from expansion for years as well as other debt due to other reasons, and worked out deals with the banks to lease back their equipment. On paper this sounds like a great idea as companies do this kind of thing all the time to save cash. They use their assets, such as buildings and offices as collateral for loans then make payments for their use. The other way is to sell off the equipment and the make payments on it. Polaroid did this in the end. They sold their buildings and leased offices in them rather than own them outright. This also puts badly needed operating cash in their hands as well. In the case of the MILW, they leased equipment as they needed it, but the payments were unrealistically too high, and due to poor maintenance on the tracks there was a rash of derailments. The cars became bad ordered and couldn't be used so they sat there not making money to meet the payments. They ended up bringing older cars out of storage, which broke down more often and caused more delays that cost the company money. With the electric system getting old, General Electric offered to build them new locomotives that could be leased out, and offered to rebuild their whole power system for free as well as connect the two separate systems. But sadly the plan was already set to sell off the copper and purchase new diesels instead. The amount of money they got for their copper didn't amount to as much as they thought they would get, and to add insult to injury there was that energy crisis in the mid-1970s that caused the fuel costs to rise on the fuel-guzzling new SDs they purchased from EMD.

Anyway, your decision to include some of the FM units, Lima and the later Baldwin diesels makes sense. They sadly came a long a bit too late to truly make a dent in the diesel locomotive business.

Hey I like that blue and white paint scheme. This is a little bit like the old Boston and Maine except it doesn't have the crisscrossed B&M.

John
 
I agree, the pinstripes should be smaller. I feel like the nose should be changed a bit, but I still can't put my finger on how.

John, the thing about the big railroads is that, especially in the northeast, there was no way for them all to be profitable if they didn't start merging out of their own territory. With the PC merger, they systematically ruined the EL, L&HR, and the BAR (in 1969 with they let all of Maine's potato harvest rot in Selkirk yard). Then, after they did all of the unrepairable damage, they too declared bankruptcy themselves in 1970. It was the largest bankruptcy in history until 2001's Enron collapse. To say that it just didn't work out is an understatement. It was a combination of all of the wrong choices at all of the wrong times. For instance, had the New Haven not been included into PC, maybe it could have been better fro everyone. The L&HR still would have had the NH connection at Maybrook to funnel traffic over their line, and in turn, the EL may have had some bridge traffic as well. The original merger in 1968 between the NYC and PC came out in the black, but the NH had a larger amount of debt than the NYC and PRR combined! PC is also somewhat responsible for Cleveland's anti-rail attitude in the 70's and 80's. They expected PC to bring more traffic through and refurbish Terminal Tower, because they were viewed as a profitable company in their first two years. When PC failed to act, Cleveland stated to distrust the railroads, and it was all downhill from there.

With the MILW, don't overlook the fact that they got double-taxed on the Pacific extension the year they ripped it up. They thought all of their deficit was coming from that line when, in reality their deficit was coming from the railroad's trunk where their granger branch lines were losing them tons of money. They ripped up the only profitable part of the company only to have the government come back and tell them that it was profitable. It could have been even more profitable if they hadn't deferred maintenance so much to prop up their bottom line for the merger with the Rock Island that never happened anyway. The PE was plagued with slow orders, taking away all of the benefits that a more direct routing had to offer.
 
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I agree, the pinstripes should be smaller. I feel like the nose should be changed a bit, but I still can't put my finger on how.

John, the thing about the big railroads is that, especially in the northeast, there was no way for them all to be profitable if they didn't start merging out of their own territory. With the PC merger, they systematically ruined the EL, L&HR, and the BAR (in 1969 with they let all of Maine's potato harvest rot in Selkirk yard). Then, after they did all of the unrepairable damage, they too declared bankruptcy themselves in 1970. It was the largest bankruptcy in history until 2001's Enron collapse. To say that it just didn't work out is an understatement. It was a combination of all of the wrong choices at all of the wrong times. For instance, had the New Haven not been included into PC, maybe it could have been better fro everyone. The L&HR still would have had the NH connection at Maybrook to funnel traffic over their line, and in turn, the EL may have had some bridge traffic as well. The original merger in 1968 between the NYC and PC came out in the black, but the NH had a larger amount of debt than the NYC and PRR combined! PC is also somewhat responsible for Cleveland's anti-rail attitude in the 70's and 80's. They expected PC to bring more traffic through and refurbish Terminal Tower, because they were viewed as a profitable company in their first two years. When PC failed to act, Cleveland stated to distrust the railroads, and it was all downhill from there.

With the MILW, don't overlook the fact that they got double-taxed on the Pacific extension the year they ripped it up. They thought all of their deficit was coming from that line when, in reality their deficit was coming from the railroad's trunk where their granger branch lines were losing them tons of money. They ripped up the only profitable part of the company only to have the government come back and tell them that it was profitable. It could have been even more profitable if they hadn't deferred maintenance so much to prop up their bottom line for the merger with the Rock Island that never happened anyway. The PE was plagued with slow orders, taking away all of the benefits that a more direct routing had to offer.

Well sure there is sometimes no other way to keep growing a business once you've saturated your market and abilities within an area. For computer companies it's new technology and then mergers and acquisitions; for railroads it's mergers and acquisition of partners and of course building within its own region. Mergers I've noticed occur usually at the mature end of a business' growth and this is especially true of the railroads. They've already matured and now are merging.

I agree with what you said. The PennCentral didn't know how to get out of its own way. This was a lot to do with management in-fighting and disparate systems. They would have been better off having a parent company, however, operating as two distinct companies. The New York Central, I believe was in better shape than the Pennsylvania at the same time. They had already started rebuilding and streamlining their system long before the PC merger. The Pennsylvania was less keen on that and kept running business as usual as their customer base moved away. This is very much like Kodak and Polaroid in the end as they kept going, business as usual with film, while the world was moving to digital technology. Oh, they dabbled in the new technology, but not enough and too little and too late to do any good.

Yes, the PC sucking up the poorer New Haven is what did them in. The New Haven too was facing increased tax penalties with dropping off revenues, and increased operational costs brought on with its unsubsidized transit operations. They not only had commuter services in and out of New York, but also Springfield, Boston, Hartford, Providence, and Worcester, among other areas. This too was long before the state transit authorities, under UMTA, pitched in any help. As I said the taxes too were pretty high. They paid through their nose, like the other companies did for their property and infrastructure while the highways and airports were getting a free ride. We have to remember too that the NH management, which was put in place by McGuiness was sucking any profits out and saddling the company with big debt. For some reason the poor B&M and New Haven were always victims of this kind of operation. JP Morgan did this to the New Haven back in the early 1900s, and when the big panic occurred, it put both companies into bankruptcy as he pulled out the cash.

I too feel that if the PC hadn't gotten a hold of the New Haven, things would have been different. I feel they used this as a way to do in a small competitor who took a business away from both companies as they fed freight to their largest competitors in the regions - the Lehigh Valley and the EL. With the burning of the Poughkeepsie bridge, this killed off their competitors right there and then. In addition because the PC was so inept and very disorganized, it killed the BAR, and MEC, as well as the Boston and Maine which relied on them for all kinds of traffic. As a kid I remember the BAR potato trains coming through Haverhill. They would run one after another, sometimes with engines in the middle of long strings of boxcars. By 1969 I had moved away, and no longer lived near the tracks, but noticed big changes in the railroads when we would pick my dad up at the Bradford depot. As a young kid all of 8 years old, I had no idea what had happened except that there were fewer freights and no more passenger trains on the B&M.

I had forgotten about that aspect of the MILW. The accounting error is what pushed them to rip up the line. It's sad when you think about it. If they had put more into that portion we would still have that end in operation, and probably more so today with the container, oil, and coal destined to the Pacific Northwest. In July 2012 I had the opportunity to take a trip out that way, and we traveled along the route on parallel US12. I didn't realize what it was at the time, otherwise I would have taken pictures of it. The bigger bridges, all concrete, along with telegraph poles, are still in place, however, the smaller wooden bridges and the track is long gone. Everything else is ripped out, and I mean ripped out completely with no trace at all that there was even a railroad there in some places other than those bridges and telegraph poles indicating where the ROW was.
 
The fall of many eastern roads may also be attributed to the collapse of the Rust Belt, which occurred around the same time, and under many of the same mistakes in management that the railroads made. The steel mills fell like dominoes, and with it, coal, ore, and steel traffic diminished. The 70's were filled with extremely untimely events, such as the real-estate crash which rendered PC's land-assets worth almost nothing, the oil crisis, which drove up fuel costs, the collapse of most manufacturing industry in the US occurred around the same time, and it created massive problems in an industry which hadn't been able to respond to obvious changes in the business-world.

I'm toying with the idea of adding turbine boosters to the roster in the mid-50's. Many mountain railroads had these, and I was lucky enough to get Anl's coal turbine before he left RRmods. The B unit in the three unit set would be perfect for a mid-train helper. Maybe once we get the freight scheme down, I'l experiment a little bit with it.

Speaking of the freight scheme, I'm thinking about starting off with a black version of the scheme we have now. A later phase II scheme could be simplified from that: either a dip job with basic lettering, or something that is more bare-bones and less complicated. First thing's first: I have to make a logo and finish up the Phase I freight scheme, as well as the prewar and postwar passenger car paint schemes. Lots of work to do!
 
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Better, now I'm thinking we should do a pennsy type thing though, have one version in blue and another version in a different base color with identical accents though. I assume you know that the pennsy had a maroon scheme and a brunswick green scheme.
 
They had similar paint schemes, except the freight DGLE scheme had only one stripe. There were also lots of variations in passenger schemes. I personally like the black with white stripes for the freight scheme. Maybe the larger stripes and lowey curve would look better on Geeps and second generation units?

I've got designs down for the passenger cars, the early passenger units (PAs and DL109s). Does anybody know of any good FM Erie Builts out there for Trainz?

Something interesting to think up would be a "new era" design for the late 60's and 70's. Lots of railroads tried to introduce new paint schemes to try to revive their company's image, some examples being the Rock Island and their blue/white scheme, the WP Pearlman scheme, and the McGuiness schemes (New Haven and B&M).
 
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