My feelings about TS2009

JCitron

Trainzing since 12-2003
Well where do I begin...

Before I state my conclusion, let me list below the things that are annoying to me right now, but hopefully will be addressed in the future. They're all small thing considering the complextity of the product an this is the initialy release in the first place.

I have to say that the install went smooth as silk. The new version installed like a dream and then the SP1 went in right on top of it without a problem. I did this before I imported my content because I knew I had a lot and didn't want to slow down the SP1 install too much. I allowed CM2 to immediately repair the database before I did anything else.

At no time did I start Trainz at all other than to run CM2. After the SP1 and repair, my machine spent close 36 hours importing my 2004/2006 content in. This was nearly 20GB worth (I couldn't believe how much it was myself until the process started!) My computer cranked Friday late afternoon until Sunday morning (early sometime) crunching away. Periodically I'd turn on my display and take a look at the progress. Once the process completed, I gave my machine some fresh brains before I ran the program. There were no warnings or errors on the data import process.

After the import checked out okay, I then fixed a few errors with some content. There were more, but they were stupid things like extra quotes in the config files, etc. that I was tired of chasing. This probably came back to bite me, but I'll deal with them more when I have more time. I had some issues where CM2 didn't recognize my changes, but a full DB Repair fixed that. Once that was done, I actually opened TRS2009.

In TRS2009, I went directly into Surveyor and opened up my veneralble route that I've worked on since the beginning of 2004. To my horror, TS2009 replaced the rusty track I was using with the new Auran track. Now if this had happened to my mainline track it wouldn't have been so bad, but this replaced my rusty sidings and old scrappy yard track that I have all over the place. At this time, I'm replacing the track a section at a time. I'm also using the oppoprtunity to rebuild some sections I didn't like so in reality this is no big deal for me. It was more of a shock to see bright shiny rails where the old dirt and rust were before.

The Alpha-channel issues with trees and telegraph wires. This is something that still exists from BETA1 I know it was mentioned to be fixed, maybe sooner than not, because it is annoying.

The continuous jumping back to the top of the list of tracks and other objects no matter what is picked. This is a carryover from TRS2006 and I was hoping this could have been resolved with this version. This is probably harder to explain than to observe... I found a relacement track for my sidings and yards. This is the old HU Trainz dark grey ballast track. This is low-poly track and has a nice profile to it. I would choose the track place some, go in and find my signals and speed signs, etc. Go back to the track list, and the list defaulted back to the top with Auran track as the first choice. This became a pain because I kept selecting the wrong track. The same thing happened in the trackside objects. Instead of staying with the last switchstand that I chose, the list jumped right up to the top on concrete abutments. Spline object, buildings and industries do this as well. Very annoying and very time consuming.

The textures changed to weird blocks when updating the mesh from 10x grid to 5x grid. There are areas now that look like I have different colored parking lots all over the place. These textures were originally spun around and needed to be brushed out again. Now I'm not sure how this looks in compatability mode because I didn't try it.

Missing buildings and other objects. They appear fine in CM2 and without errors, but do not appear in Surveyor on the route. They are listed in red on the list which probably means they're kaput.

Some of my rolling stock did this too with the red listing and are dead. These items had no errors in them and worked fine in TRS2006. A lot of these were older progressive meshed Paintshed items. This also happened in the BETA 1 as well, but being BETA I expected it. Maybe the handling of older content such as this can be taken care of in a future release if not, I'll move these to thes scrap yard.

My overall feelings and conclusion so far:

So after poking around so far, I've come to the conclusion that TS2009 is a fairly decent product that has a lot of potential to go places. All that is needed is some fixes for the different bugs as they've been showing up. I have probably not even come close to finding many of the bugs in the program. What I've listed are the ones that were blatently obvious to me. All in all it deserves a 4/5 stars.

When I get a chance, I'll give Driver a try. This won't be with a single train over the route, but multiple AI drivers, active portals, etc. to test my signal setup. In Beta 1, my signaling worked fine so this will be an interesting test to see if they continue to work like before.

The small annoyances are something I can live with for now with the hopes of them being fixed in future versions. For the newcomer, this program is quite the bargain because of all of the installed content. A lot of the items that I had downloaded over the nearly 5 years since I've used Trainz, are now built in. This alone is worth the package as it is because of the amount of time and FCTs saved.

Anyway, I'm open for feedback of course and I'm sure there's will be plenty.

John
 
John,

Thanks for putting your experiences down, it makes interesting reading.

I hope your so far good impressions remain after a session in Driver. Unfortunately for me this is the point where I fall out with 2009. I have been extremely disappointed with frame rates post SP1 installation in Driver. It seems to me that the patch has been rushed out to fix the alpha sorting problem amongst other things, but the process of fixing this issue has seriously impacted frame rates, such that it is unusable on my machine.

Together with all the content fixing, the automatic changing of assets over in old routes to something I don't want, and various crashes has made me throw in the towel, for now at least.

I agree 2009 has a lot of potential and is a complex piece of software, but in it's present form it is not stable or mature enough for me to want to use it.

I'm familiar with how software development works, and I've done my bit for the Auran cause, but the current version of 2009 does not deliver on it's promises for me. I can't see 2009 uniting Trainzers on one platform yet awhile; there is next to no new content and the pre 2009 content has too many problems with it. I want to play the game not fix assets my whole life. If I was a content creator I might feel exited about the possibilties, but for a driver and route tinkerer like me, 2009 aint a lot of fun.

I will take another look when SP3 comes out, TS2009 might be getting close to a worthwhile product by then.

Good luck

SP
 
I just swapped my Local folder from 06 to 09 tonight it has taken me about 4 hrs to let Content manager do its stuff. I have not downloaded or installed SP1 yet either.

John

I have the same problem as you have with the Auran 2009 track replacing some of my track,But which has annoyed me the most is that most of my splines are also 2009 track Walls,fences,platforms roads and lots of other things.

My main terminal building had 2 weeks solid put into it to get it right in 2006 but all the splines there now are Again Auran 2009 track.

Quite a few objects and buildings are missing now and other objects seem to of lost textures.

I read somewhere that Auran stated that Trs2009 was 99.9 backward compatable it does not seem the case on my game.

Dont get me wrong I am not totally dissapointed as the game seems to run a little better, At the moment my route is installed on a haff decent pc and a 8500 Gt gfx card which does struggle, When i get more time i will do the same with my other high spec pc which should max everything out fingers crossed.

Maybee i have done something wrong to get the above results Someone will probably comment on our posts.

Oh the 5000 draw distance makes hell of a differenace by the way.

Thanks

Leigh
 
Bigbird76

Your splines get replaced because the splines called for are not available. Close the map without saving it when you see these wholesale replacements, make sure that all the dependencies are visible in CM2 and have no errors and then try again.

Cheers

Narrowgauge
 
I already see one thing that will help with a fair few problems. Running non TS2009 native content in TS2009 native mode will not give you the 99% backwards compatibility. Especially in terms of items with 'errors'. If an item has errors, it won't work in native mode. Same as alpha blended objects will have problems in native mode.

In compatibility mode, many of these items will work, and the alpha blended problem will lessen.

As Peter has said, the spline replacement is caused by having missing splines (or having a 'faulty' spline in native mode).

Unfortunately, compatibility mode (and faulty assets) will cause performance to drop.

Zec
 
TS 2009

Good Morning All,

I've spent the last few weeks messing around with errors and being thrown back to the desktop but I'm pleased to say that a last I've found a first class solution to my TS 2009 problems.

Its called TC3!!! and no - I don't mean TC3 running in 2009 I mean TC3 as a stand alone product. I'm happy to recommend it to anyone who enjoys driving trains and would like a trouble free life.

If you like tinkering with problems and the frustrations of finding that things don't work or do work for a while and then create fatal errors TS 2009 is for you.

From today I'm putting the enjoyment factor back into trainz and TS 2009 back in the cupboard.

Happy Trainzing

Paul:)
 
I already see one thing that will help with a fair few problems. Running non TS2009 native content in TS2009 native mode will not give you the 99% backwards compatibility. Especially in terms of items with 'errors'. If an item has errors, it won't work in native mode. Same as alpha blended objects will have problems in native mode.

In compatibility mode, many of these items will work, and the alpha blended problem will lessen.

As Peter has said, the spline replacement is caused by having missing splines (or having a 'faulty' spline in native mode).

Unfortunately, compatibility mode (and faulty assets) will cause performance to drop.

Zec

That's interesting, Zec. I have gone back to compatilbility mode and the telephone wires are "fixed", but there's a great delay when the objects load which concerns me with performance and that's worse with Directx, which I tried out of curiosity.

Another not so spiffy thing I found is splits in the terrain. There is white stuff underneath that looks like it's trying to come up but can't. These seems to show up between baseboards wheather I've changed the grid resolution or not.

My track so far was replaced only in one section? Why I don't know but it's okay over the rest of the route. Going over the route hasn't been a bad thing because I've used the opportunity to replace some bridges and relay som junctions that didn't work the way they should.


@Paul - me switching to TC3 is out of the question. I would be in the same boat with content errors. Luckily I have only a handful with TS2009.

My feelings now are around 3.7/5 and dwindling for Surveyor. Maybe my feelings about Driver will be better. I feel that this product was rushed out the door again. Sorry Auran for being blunt about this. Rushing a product to market will hurt in the long run. I know because I worked for a company that did. I understand the need for revenue, but if you sell crap to customers the revenue will be less in the long run because the reputation will get out.

John
 
First off let me say, I was a TRS2004 diehard and considered that the best version ever released. I also own Trainz, TRS06 and TC3 and all of these versions to some degree never came close to TRS04 for me.

However, after installing TRS09 and SP1 for it, I also installed all my own created content plus all the content I had in my TRS04 (some 10 GB of data). I had created in TRS04 a monster route of some 694 base boards with countless objects in it as I always had a high specced PC for playing games.

After transfering this route and its content into TRS09, I was very pleasantly surprised starting it up for the first time. Only a few of the monster route's content was not visible (faulty), easily getting replaced with working objects. Even my own created objects, most released and some still in the process of getting ready for TRS09 were showing up (in compatibility mode) as they all still had the version 2.0 prefix. Even some of these objects with the old way of Alpha masking/blending did show correctly as did some scripted (V2.4) DMUs I am still working on with opening doors and passengers enabled.

Even my created trusty AN class diesels showed up, albeit with some ditch light faults. These being extra ditch light attachment points left in the mesh without any lights attached to them. The new "headlights on" button does indeed enable these but as these are not in the right position, they look odd :) This is easy to fix with a new version of these AN class locomotives getting uploaded in due course.

Loading times of routes are really improved, colours seem to me being crisper and cleared than in the old versions, possibly the way its 8800 GTS video card displays these compared to one of my other PCs with an ATI 850XT video card.

The only gripe (major!) I have is with CM2, the way one has to find first and then filter its content now and the way John Citron on top describes its behaviour when replacing stuff. Why the hell do we as content creators insert region codes, category classes, era codes etc., CM2 should filter these automatically and show one where these are in separate tags as say, TRS04 did display these. Why break the wheel to reinvent it then being more complicated?

Anyway, I guess in due course these things will get addressed and I have to say, overall looking at and judging TRS09, this will be the best version ever.

Well done brew crew :Y:

Cheers

VinnyBarb
 
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