How to remove -3:11061 passengers from a route

[tmz06003]

I'm working with Nawlins to update the Porthmadog- Blaenau Ffestiniog route for TS12. The session is now operating without errors, but we have one problem to overcome.

Nawlins has the intrusive Duchess passengers asset installed -3:11061. The problem with this asset is that it's obsolete-table is set to obsolete the built in passengers -3:11060 which is universal. This factor has caused no end of problems as I don't (and judging by the last release many others don't) have that passenger asset and now have no passengers showing on any of the stations or loading via the instant load command.

Does anyone have any suggestions for removing the problematic -3:11061 asset and reverting to -3:11060? I've tried changing the reference in the kuid table but that doesn't work, all it does is change what CMP will download, it doesn't actually change the assets on the route. I also attempted to change the config of -3:11060 to obsolete -3:11061 but I'm getting a message you are not authorised to alter this asset. Replace assets doesn't work as you can't select a product to my knowledge unless anyone knows better?

Trainzobjects used to work on TRS2004 as that could get into the "guts" of a route and truly replace any dependencies, does anyone have it working on TS12?

The other suggestion is for me to delete all the stations on the route and place them again but I don't have the time or inclination to do this when I've already done it once, and some were very awkward to place initially.

If anyone has any other suggestions we would be interested to hear them, once this issue is resolved we can upload the update.

Please also take note of this if you have the Duchess pack installed and are planning to release a route as it may leave the majority who download it with a missing asset headache.

 

[shaneturner12]

The best way would actually be to uninstall the Duchess pack, as this would take the offending asset with it. You may still have to rebuild stations though.

Shane

 

[tmz06003]

Chris tried disabling the -3:11061 passenger assets in CMP but that didn't work, the route still looks for that asset.

 

[mtldrm38]

if i recall correctly theyre is a post about this earlier in the year may wanna search for>
I basically opened up all stations that i use in cmp and reconfigured the passengers........

 

[clam1952]

-3:11061 was already a problem before the duchess, there are other items / routes looking for it, that's easy to solve just open 11060 for edit extract the folder to desktop change the kuid to 11061, revert the open for edit and import the now 11061. Not ideal but it works.

Just checked your route on my Install of TS12 that doesn't have any add-on stuff and no Duchess and does contain 11060 and guess what, no passengers and a script error on the AJS stations. just checked my route in that copy as well, same problem, this is bizzarre as all the configs are looking for 11060. So effectively I'm going to have the same problem.

Back in a bit, going to try something.

Edit: that didn't work, both routes were showing 11061 in the routes config, tried changing it to 11060 which didn't work on the platforms, however i did get passeners back in the carriages on my route.


As an aside, I've won the job of updating all kevmt's FR stuff for TS12, had done them but now doing them properly, Kevin suggested I go ahead and put them on Trainzone. When I finish they will be under Kevins kuid as kuid2's less confusion then, doing Engine specs for the locos that do have cab mode and bogies / or config edits to solve the sinking wheel problem on the older stock.

 

[itareus]

... passengers asset installed -3:11061. The problem with this asset is that it's obsolete-table is set to obsolete the built in passengers -3:11060 which is universal... ....Please also take note of this if you have the Duchess pack installed and are planning to release a route as it may leave the majority who download it with a missing asset headache.

Maybe the answer is for Auran to put -3:11061 on the DLS ?

...I've won the job of updating all kevmt's FR stuff for TS12, had done them but now doing them properly, Kevin suggested I go ahead and put them on Trainzone...

No small job, well done for taking it on ! Will you be posting on this forum as and when the assets are put on Trainzone ?

Chris

 

[clam1952]

DLS is the answer, unless it appears in the forthcoming service pack as a built in which is I suppose is possible. I have a feeling someone, probably Shane, may have raised this with N3V a while back. I'm trying to find what it was that caused the thing to appear in the first place as I'm sure it was definitely before the Duchess appeared. Can't seem to find the thread on here though even with Google.

Kevin's items? Yes will be making an announcement when all done and uploaded.

 

[shaneturner12]

I have indeed been raising several issues with N3V - just out of interest, has anyone mentioned it in the TS12 bugs thread (as I feel it may be a TS12-related bug).

Shane

 

[tmz06003]

-3:11061 was already a problem before the duchess, there are other items / routes looking for it, that's easy to solve just open 11060 for edit extract the folder to desktop change the kuid to 11061, revert the open for edit and import the now 11061. Not ideal but it works.

Yes that would solve it for me but I'm wanting to revert to 60 so that when I upload the route update it isn't an issue for anyone else downloading the route.

It would be interesting to know where the kuid did originate from, Chris advises me that the Duchess uses it but I'm wondering if some other older payware pack or maybe TC3 uses that kuid?

Good luck with the kevmt content, having all of that error free will be a major benefit.

 

[clam1952]

Not TC3 or S&C as just checked, have found other references though, seems to be included with all the current DLS, Aerotrain, PRR, Duchess etc. I'm suspecting I may have acquired it from a non DLS route.

Partial success on my Install without it by cloning the route and changing 11061 back to 11060 which on your route brings back the passengers, can't get the session to play ball though, cloning and changing the map file kuid in the config does nothing.

Removing the 11061 in the other install from the editing folder to desktop ( avoids the not authorised problem) and deleting the obsolete table, deleting the one open in CM and then importing gets rid of the obsolete, however no passengers on my route either in stations or carriages even after changing the reference in the route config back.
Carriages I could set up again as they had all reset to 0. Stations although physically present on both routes were not responding to the question mark for setup.
Neither does running an EDR sort anything out, only takes about 10 minutes on an SSD so worth a try.

 

[JCitron]

Not TC3 or S&C as just checked, have found other references though, seems to be included with all the current DLS, Aerotrain, PRR, Duchess etc. I'm suspecting I may have acquired it from a non DLS route.

Partial success on my Install without it by cloning the route and changing 11061 back to 11060 which on your route brings back the passengers, can't get the session to play ball though, cloning and changing the map file kuid in the config does nothing.

Removing the 11061 in the other install from the editing folder to desktop ( avoids the not authorised problem) and deleting the obsolete table, deleting the one open in CM and then importing gets rid of the obsolete, however no passengers on my route either in stations or carriages even after changing the reference in the route config back.
Carriages I could set up again as they had all reset to 0. Stations although physically present on both routes were not responding to the question mark for setup.
Neither does running an EDR sort anything out, only takes about 10 minutes on an SSD so worth a try.

Malc,

I have the same issue. Let me repeat what I've been reading. I apologize if this is redundant

Passengers,<kuid:-3:11060> comes up as obsolete and owned by Auran. Yes we know that....

Passengers,<kuid:-3:11061> comes up as Built-in for TS12 and as the replacement for the -3:11060.

Here's the Obsolete-Table for the -3:11061

obsolete-table
{
0 <kuid:-3:10060>
1 <kuid:-3:11060>
}

So 11061 has to have come from something we've gotten from N3V, or was included in something that has been dragged along. I have the following packs installed:

Pennsy T1
Murchison
SnC
Blue Comet
Duchess

I distinctly remember seeing the British passengers before installing Duchess. I'm going to do a little sleuthing here and see which one of these is the culprit by viewing the config.txt files for the passenger cars. I think this would tell me which one had done this, correct?

My other thought too is if we were to outright edit the built-in, latest one - the -3:11061, and removed the -3:11060 from the obsolete-table, would that fix the problem locally at least?

EDIT:

Based on my installed N3V-purchased Train packs, this is what I've found.

1) -3:10060 is included in Blue Comet and Duchess
2) -3:11060 is included in the Aero Train. <---- The culprit for me. This could be the same for Coronation Scott as well.

A quick look at a built-in station, Station Basic to be exact, shows -3:10060. A station, downloaded from Bloodnok website, shows -3:11060. Now with over 3600 assets referring back to either -3:11060 or -3:10060, this affects everything from railcars to stations. Asset creators are referring to the older Kuids, but are being replaced by the newest incorrect one.

The -3:11061 deprecates the above older versions, thus obsoleting them, and is the replacement for those to. I'm going to remove the obsolete table and see what happens. The worst thing that'll happen is I'll have to revert the asset.
Update here too: Edited out the Obsolete references. Older asset, which is referred to by many assets, un-obsoleted. I think I fixed the problem locally. This doesn't of course fix anything that maybe uploaded to the DLS which refers back to the deprecated assets.

John

 

[clam1952]

Removing the obsolete should in theory work, however when I tried it after changing 61 to 60 in the route config the stations were still passenger less, I have a feeling its going to be one of those it won't work unless you delete the station and re add it again, much like with changing engine specs.

 

[JCitron]

Removing the obsolete should in theory work, however when I tried it after changing 61 to 60 in the route config the stations were still passenger less, I have a feeling its going to be one of those it won't work unless you delete the station and re add it again, much like with changing engine specs.

You're sadly right about the stations. I didn't lose any passengers. Mine still have that distinctly 1960s British look about them. The Bobby policemen and the older gents with Derby hats kind of gives that away.
This change just didn't update the stations, so I'll have to do some replacing of objects. The object info must be kept somewhere in the route file. Unless going into Surveyor, and clicking on the properties of the station might fix this.

On my small Gloucester Route, this isn't bad because there's only 4 stations, but on the larger route, my Enfield, this is going to be a pain in the rear. I'm going to try an easy way first before digging into the embankment with a teaspoon.

The only way, I think, to fix this is to obsolete the bad new asset with a newer one.

John

 

[JCitron]

Well that was an exercise in futility. I still get the UK passengers no matter what, even when placing a new station. This information is buried somewhere and it's not easy to find. I'll keep digging.

John

 

[tmz06003]

Chris has tried that several times without success, whatever we do 61 just will not go away.

Maybe someone from N3V could help out here as it looks like it may be a problem for many of us, the more this rogue kuid spreads the bigger the problem.

 

[nawlins]

As an aside, I've won the job of updating all kevmt's FR stuff for TS12, had done them but now doing them properly, Kevin suggested I go ahead and put them on Trainzone. When I finish they will be under Kevins kuid as kuid2's less confusion then, doing Engine specs for the locos that do have cab mode and bogies / or config edits to solve the sinking wheel problem on the older stock.

Hi clam. I if it's any help, I have a full set of kevmt's FR stuff already error free if you like to have it. I'd be happy to send it to you. If so, send me a pm with your e-mail address.


About the Auran passengers, all I know is that I didn't have the problem before I purchased the Duchess pack. I find it difficult to believe that N3V would knowingly force people to buy an add-on pack in order to get something that is required by all passenger routes in Trainz. I like to think that it's an error on their part, but then the obsolete table seems pretty premeditated. So.....

Cheers

 

[robd]

re: asset -3:11061.

The Duchess package received an update around September/October 2011, I am fairly certain -3:11061 came with that update for the Duchess package.

 

[clam1952]

Hi clam. I if it's any help, I have a full set of kevmt's FR stuff already error free if you like to have it. I'd be happy to send it to you. If so, send me a pm with your e-mail address.


About the Auran passengers, all I know is that I didn't have the problem before I purchased the Duchess pack. I find it difficult to believe that N3V would knowingly force people to buy an add-on pack in order to get something that is required by all passenger routes in Trainz. I like to think that it's an error on their part, but then the obsolete table seems pretty premeditated. So.....

Cheers

Thanks for the offer but I already have them error free, that's why Kevin suggested I did it for him, it's just a case of mainly tidying up remaining warnings, thumbnails mainly, I have a feeling that those warnings may soon become errors, updating to kuid2's and sorting out engine specs for those loco's that can be driven in Cab mode, as the existing engine specs cause some bizarre behaviour in cab mode in TS12.

I'm hoping that the passenger thing will be resolved in the service pack, there is also that problem with AI and stations that Shane has raised a few times, that is going to need sorting out.

Routes getting closer to release just a few more buildings, re-texturing some of my earlier bridges, solving this annoying passengers problem and making some alterations to a few things that appear to have drastically changed when I was up there a couple of weeks ago, Blaenau Station car park is now a bus terminus and that Porthmadog bypass.
Also thinking of jumping the gun and adding the cob widening and new Port station layout for which the plans are out, would make sessions a heck of a lot easier.
and could always update if they do end up with something different.
Got the plans for most of the FR stock here, so intend to fill in the missing gaps after I've finished the route.

 

[shaneturner12]

~snip~

I'm hoping that the passenger thing will be resolved in the service pack, there is also that problem with AI and stations that Shane has raised a few times, that is going to need sorting out. ~snip~

Indeed - I have been working with another Trainzer with the AI/Station issues, and it's currently in N3V's hands. I do have contact available with the N3V team on it if needed.

Shane

 

[JCitron]

I thought of this last night, well in the wee hours this morning, that perhaps that even though the stations are calling the correct kuid for passengers, they'll still not load the right set because this information is hard-coded into the regions.
If you recall, my stations should have loaded the correct set because I had unobsoleted these items.

Just a thought anyway, I could be totally daft on this one which is not too unusual these days.

John