How dangerous is a long-haul locomotive engineer's job in America today?

[JonMyrlennBailey]

Do more company OTR truck drivers get killed in the line of duty than railroad train crew men in America today?

I would think modern d/e engines have a supreme safety and long-haul comfort advantage over steam engines of old.

Both semi trucks and trains are potential heavy rolling death machines. But a train has a survivability advantage over an 18-wheeler at a crossing
whenever the two vehicles rudely meet. It seems that there is a much higher demand for OTR mega-carrier drivers than for train crewmen however.
A railroad freight train crew job for UP, NS or BNSF might be much harder to land than a position for an OTR driver with Swift, JB HUnt or Schneider National.

It takes many more truck drivers to move the equivalent ton-miles of freight for just one long train.

 

[1611mac]

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...es-25-most-dangerous-jobs-america/1002500001/

http://railroadworkersunited.org/railroaders-killed-on-the-job/

 

[JCitron]

There are some assumptions being made here.

OTR truck drivers are in higher demand because there are more trucking companies than railroads and lots of goods to deliver. Railroads work well in long point-to-point (P2P) and bulk commodities, containers, and food products while the trucking companies can't handle the quantity, and really very, very long distances as the railroad's can.

As far as survivability well, that's down to shear size, but many train engineers and crew are killed in road-truck accidents due to cab impact, explosions, and derailments.

Landing an engineer's job is something that every new conductor signee must plan for in their future regardless if they plan for that career path or not. This has become a mandatory requirement after two years on the job for most roads, and it's not an easy training course, and one that takes many hours of on-the-job training as well as simulations and time spent at the training center. The result of failing these requirements isn't remaining as a conductor, and sadly leads to a termination of employment.

I recommand you take a look at the forums over at www.railfan.net. There's a whole section on the ins and outs of hiring on and working for a railroad.

Believe it or not, but 10 years ago I applied for a rail job just as the Great Recession took hold. I was at the ready-to-hire status for CSX at the time and if I got hired, I would have been a freight conductor out of the then still active Boston, MA (Alston-Brighton) former B&A yards. That didn't happen of course, and today that would be a no-no for me anyway due to my balance and instability on my feet.

Other interesting websites include:

www.ntsb.gov

and

www.fra.gov

The NTSB website in particular is very interesting. Take a look at the links on accident investigations. The results and conclusions of some of these investigations is very telling of what goes on day-to-day on the "road".

 

[JonMyrlennBailey]

It sounds like getting into the freight trucking occupation as a driver is not nearly as tough as taking up railroading. Many people assume a loco operator sits in a comfortable cab pushing buttons.
Too many people want to drive trains from living and there are few railroading positions but the American freight trucking workforce is usually about 50,000 drivers short. I think a truck requires more finesse than a freight train to drive, however.

Truckers have to steer their vehicles, back in tight spaces and be proficient with the gear shifter and clutch. Trucks require much less braking distance than trains, however. I'm considering a new career as a truck driver. Truck drivers sometimes have to put on nasty tire chains out in the freezing snow. A loco engineer conveniently hits the sander for more traction without departing the warmth of his cab.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/data/Pages/Data_Stats.aspx

There were 761 total fatalities related to rail in America in 2017, 512 of those deaths were related to trespassing. 273 deaths related to grade crossings. 841 motor roadway deaths related to medium and heavy trucks on American highways.

I would like to compare the number of deaths of American RR engineers vs the number American heavy truck drivers killed in vehicular mishaps for a given recent year.

I would venture a guess that more truck drivers are killed in the cab each year than loco engineers in their respective cabs. Most truck driver deaths (the majority from rollover) are preventable and the fault of the driver. Most fatal RR mishaps are not the fault of the train operator and most the loco driver can't possibly prevent due to a train's lack of ability to swerve out the way or stop suddenly: it's mostly a person or vehicle on the tracks that shouldn't be. There have been some cases in Amtrak history where false clear signal indications or wrong switch settings lead to deaths of people on board trains including loco cab personnel.

 

[cascaderailroad]

Truck drivers are hired, with felony criminal records, several recent DUI's, with illiteracy, mental defects, and not even being a US Citizen ... Locomotive crews are essentially a Federal job, and applicants backgrounds, and physical/mental conditions, are thoroughly investigated ... and from just one infraction, and you are fired on the spot, and blackballed for life, with absolutely no chance of being re-hired.

You answered your own questions, (as you constantly/regularly do, all the time, making up multiple, obvious, threads per day/per week) It is everyday common sense, of most (other) intelligent persons, that DO read the news headlines ... that most (other) well informed persons don't even have to post an obvious thread, questioning the obvious. It is obvious, and widely known, to (other) current event, media informed persons ... That right now there are 100's of thousands of imbecilic, unfit, truck drivers on the road, at any given hour ... So yes there are many, many more, fatal truck wrecks per day, each and every day, 24/7/365 ... Than that of trains.

There are train derailments in the US alone, every 7 minutes (ranging from a slightly derailed trolley car, to a minor non-fatal derailment, to a totally catastrophic passenger/freight train derailment/wreck/fatality).

Each day there are well over 14,000 airplane flights, that on most days, never even result in a "Band-Aid" injury.

A locomotive does have sheer weight in it's favor, with crash resistant cabs, and anti-climber bumpers, that oftentimes prevent or reduce railcar collision climb-overs ... Where as a tractor trailer is fiberglass, and flimsy sheet metal, that usually self destructs to smithereens, on impact, usually fatally killing the truck driver in a fiery explosive collision.

Oftentimes when a 30,000 ton freight train/passenger consist is involved in a catastrophic wreck, it can not stop in time, and the kinetic energy shoves the loco's into a horrible, climb-over, zig-zag, accordioned, unimaginable twisted wreck, that oftentimes results in an obvious missing crewman, recovery mission from the "get go" of first responders arriving on scene ... rather than that of a rescue mission ... So when a train wrecks, it costs BILLIONS of dollars in damages alone, not to mention multiple catastrophic fatality costs, from loss of a train crew/citizens lives.

One freight train, can take 365 tractor trailers off the highways ... But trains carry highly volatile dangerous goods, not allowed on tractor trailers on the highways. So when a train wrecks, it is usually absolutely horrific. That is why train crews can earn $1700 per day, quadruple time, on a holiday.

 

[JonMyrlennBailey]

A good comparison might be number of annual accident-related deaths for locomotive engineers for every 1 million miles of travel vs the number of truck driver deaths for every one million miles of travel.

I would never want to be a trolley operator but only an d/e loco operator for freight rail service if were to be able to choose any RR position my heart desired. I would not want to take that route as a conductor

as John has stated above however. I want minimal exposure to extreme hot and cold weather and I'm no circus acrobat or Olympic athlete for strength and stamina. Brakeman and switchman can also be a

dangerous, sweat-breaking, knuckle-busting and crappy job. This is how dangerous and crappy a conductor's life can be according to these UP/NS/BNSF video, it's no white-collar desk job:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4loypZNHeY&t=82s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZdUABU2g_k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z88iPeZub1k&t=288s



Ten Reasons For Working in the Railroad Industry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8TEuE_iRHU


For years I thought a conductor was the man in charge of a passenger train. He bosses around other train crewmen, he wears a nice uniform and a hat, he enforces rules for passengers, he sports a pocket watch and a Motorola walkie talkie, he hollers ALL ABOARD!, and says "ticket please" and he gets angry as a disturbed hornet's nest whenever the train is late. In Emperor of the North, Ernest Borgnine dressed up like such conductor but he was on board a freight train, climbing over moving cars and clubbing hobos. He would holler at the steam engine crew to hurry up. It's odd that the conductor is now the lowest/rookie position on a freight train crew. The term usually suggests authority and seniority.

 

[cascaderailroad]

A good comparison might be number of annual accident-related deaths for locomotive engineers for every 1 million miles of travel vs the number of truck driver deaths for every one million miles of travel.

What on earth does "a million miles of travel" have in relation to a new crew that is on their first 15 miles of a trip, or are sitting stopped at a red signal for a full 8 hours, and they both gets seriously kilt' ?

It's odd that the conductor is now the lowest/rookie position on a freight train crew. The term usually suggests authority and seniority.

That's because there are only 2 positions of crew members on a train ... a Conductor who does all the tedious dirty work, as he gains seniority, and eventually trains for an engineers position ... and the Engineer, who is the "Boss" driver.

The rear end brakeman, the rear end fireman, rear end conductor ... head end fireman, and head end brakeman jobs were abolished, and when caboose's were outlawed ... leaving only 2 crew members per train ... sometimes now there is just only 1 lone ROCO engineer/conductor, per train

 

[JonMyrlennBailey]

According to this UP video, people work as "brakemen" and "switchmen" as they train to be a "conductor". Not sure how UP defines those terms these days. I would think the switchman throws the switches on yards and customer sidings. There is also a position called "trainmaster" on some roads. In the earlier days of diesel-electrics, the engineer's help in the cab was still called a "fireman".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4loypZNHeY

 

[JonMyrlennBailey]

What on earth does "a million miles of travel" have in relation to a new crew that is on their first 15 miles of a trip, or are sitting stopped at a red signal for a full 8 hours, and they both gets seriously kilt' ?

That's because there are only 2 positions of crew members on a train ... a Conductor who does all the tedious dirty work, as he gains seniority, and eventually trains for an engineers position ... and the Engineer, who is the "Boss" driver.

The rear end brakeman, the rear end fireman, rear end conductor ... head end fireman, and head end brakeman jobs were abolished, and when caboose's were outlawed ... leaving only 2 crew members per train ... sometimes now there is just only 1 lone ROCO engineer/conductor, per train

I just want to compare the odds of death on duty for an American locomotive engineer vs an American OTR truck driver.

Which is inherently more dangerous occupation? Train driver or truck driver? Were there more truck drivers or train drivers killed in accidents last year?

One trucking website I visited said 1,200 American truck drivers died in accidents in 2018 and the majority were vehicle rollovers which often crush the cab and the driver. The driver was often going too fast for turns in his top-heavy rig or the rig was not correctly loaded. It's the truck driver going too fast for turns, downgrades or weather conditions that most likely bites the dust.

 

[cascaderailroad]

The $50,000 question is:

Which is inherently more dangerous occupation? Train driver or truck driver? Were there more truck drivers or train drivers killed in accidents last year?

What do you surmise is the answer ? ? ? It's kind of obvious ... As there are billions of trucks on the roads per year

 

[JonMyrlennBailey]

The nice thing about a truck driver is that he can stop his vehicle much more quickly in an emergency and possibly steer clear of trouble. He, for the most part, controls his level of safety or danger.

The train engineer barreling down the track has no control if some idiot or a vehicle gets on the tracks and just stands there. A truck driver doesn't have to depend on signals to tell him if the road ahead is clear for a mile or more because at 55 mph in good weather and on a level road at 80,000 pounds gross he can stop in under 500 feet total emergency stopping distance.

 

[JCitron]

The nice thing about a truck driver is that he can stop his vehicle much more quickly in an emergency and possibly steer clear of trouble. He, for the most part, controls his level of safety or danger.

The train engineer barreling down the track has no control if some idiot or a vehicle gets on the tracks and just stands there. A truck driver doesn't have to depend on signals to tell him if the road ahead is clear for a mile or more because at 55 mph in good weather and on a level road at 80,000 pounds gross he can stop in under 500 feet total emergency stopping distance.

True barring his load hasn't shifted in the process as he swerves out of the way, rolls over, or gets impaled by the contents in his trailer coming through the wall of the trailer into the back of the cab.

Even consumer SUVs are not as quick stopping as smaller cars, which is why there are so many rollover accidents. People think of them as being just like a Toyota Camry, which they are not. Given the mass of the vehicle on less than ideal conditions and these vehicles can and will slide. All it takes is a tiny bit of oil seeping up out of the road during warm hot months when the road is hit with a sudden rainshower, and there's a lot of slick surfaces. People also tend to drive faster than the conditions allow, causing many, many accidents during poor weather due to such things as sliding and hydroplaning off the tarmac. The fact that idiots tailgate so close to each other, needs to be factored in. The trucker maybe keeping his distance, but there's the constant idiot who cuts between him and the car in front sometimes so close to both that should there be an emergency, the car in between becomes a car sandwich meat.

I'm not sure about you, but I commuted at the minimum of 45 miles each way to work daily. I saw many an accident, usually in bad or poor weather, always caused by shear stupidity. There's nothing like those idiots racing down the road at 70 mph during a blinding snowstorm and ending up facing the oncoming traffic when they hit that hidden patch of ice, or having the blasted selfish you-know-what doing paperwork in the middle lane of an expressway. Yes this happened one day. Some miserable AH had traffic tied up the ying-yang during a miserable rainstorm. It took multiple short quick passes to finally catch up and there SHE was... Hands free blue-tooth device in her ear, laptop running, and papers sitting on her steering wheel, and NOT A SOUL IN FRONT!

This happened a few times during normal commutes as well usually at night. It's the same kind of behavior with people reading their emails on the iPads, doing paperwork and spreadsheets while driving, and other stuff except driving, and all well under the speed limit. People are moving along then suddenly there's someone in the middle of an otherwise empty road doing 30 mph. This is an accident waiting to happen. A big rig doing 75 mph or faster, because they never do the posted 65 mph speed limits ever here, barreling down the highway and encountering someone like this creeping along in the middle lane. BOOM!

Then there's the idiot BW driver (Bob and Weave) in his BMW doing the slalom between lanes, and crisscrossing in front of cars... These guys cut in close to vehicles, clip other cars, and all he needs is to do this in front of a truck who can't stop as fast. BANG, Scrunch, Crunch. He's a goner. His family will sue the trucking company because the truck could have swerved out of the way at the microsecond the guy cut the truck off.

I'm not sure I would want to drive a truck for a living.

 

[cascaderailroad]

A truck driver doesn't have to depend on signals to tell him if the road ahead is clear for a mile or more

What about road traffic signals ? ? ?

 

[JonMyrlennBailey]

What about road traffic signals ? ? ?

Oh, yes, red lights at intersections, yellow lights, green lights, turner arrows, flashing red lights, yellow arrows. If the truck driver is not speeding, he should be able to deal with these.

I've driven heavy trucks in the army already for seven years and was a diesel mechanic on them. The turbo whine, the hiss of air brakes: there's something that grows on me regarding diesel

power. I drive conservatively and defensively. I don't speed. I have a perfect driving record. I don't dope, smoke or drink.

I would sure rather do OTR driver work for a mega-carrier than have to suffer like those RR conductors do in nasty weather and loose ballast to get their butts parked on that coveted cab seat

cushion bottom of a modern air-conditioned locomotive, especially for a Class 1 RR: long-haul and better pay. Commanding diesel power is commanding diesel power whether for Swift on concrete or

Union Pacific on steel.

 

[cascaderailroad]

So that this thread can be finally put to bed ... How dangerous is truck driving ... over that of driving trains ?

So what is your grande hypothesis, your theory, and philosophy ?

Oh great Carnac the Magnificent, we await your prediction ... Just which means of transportation is the most dangerous ?

 

[JCitron]

What about road traffic signals ? ? ?

Those are optional now. Don't cha know.

I'm not kidding!

And stop signs too which are meant for the under priviliged drivers who don't own a Mercedes, BMW, or Audi.