Hoosac Tunnel Route

[steamboateng]

I have taken on a new route which includes the Hoosac Tunnel in the northeast corner of Massachusetts. I have generated DEM maps and put the whole thing into TS12. I've started laying track and have the tunnel installed. But I'm still doing research and need a few answers. The tunnel was electrified in 1911, and used electrics to pull steam trains thru the tunnel. With the advent of B&M dieselization, the electrics were retired in 1946. I know the route was electrified from North Adams, on the west side thru to the east side at least as far as Hoosac Station. Does anyone know how far east of the tunnel the catenary ran? My fully exercised 'Google finger' seems not able to dowse this information.

 

[bendorsey]

When I made the hoosac tunnel parts some of the photos I had showed the catenary but I decided it was too complex and left it off since it was eventually removed.

Are you aware of an inhierent problem with the tunnel? The real one changed linings part way through the bore (from brick to raw rock). This can't be done in a single tunnel spline so I made two - one lined with brick - one lined with raw rock. Surprisingly (to me anyway, lol) they can be connected in the middle and the portals there dissappear so the linings connect and do change. The problem occurs at one end or the other. The dighole no longer "digs a hole". No idea why. Hopefully you can solve it otherwise your sort of stuck with an odd looking entrance or exit.

Good luck making the route.

Ben

 

[steamboateng]

Ben, I've got the tunnel installed, choosing the one with the brickwork (there was a real brick works on site to build the original). I'm satisfied; looking for overal visual effect rather than highlight minutia! True, you would save me a lot of work if you hung the catenary (on 4 meter centers), but i'll some how overcome that (assuming you dont want to conjure up a another with the catenary in place; but it would be nice if you did.....).
I drove a triple mu'd set of electrics thru it this a.m. (sans cat) and all went well........if somewhat boring, navigating the 4.75 miles at a prototype 30 mph!
Only one issue with the tunnel...........the portal exits are over 10 meters high, exceeding the 'dighole' size; this allows a surface edge to show on the upper center where the mountain contour pierces the portal roof. Any cure for this.
Overall it's a fine tunnel, Ben, and I thank you for making it available.
I'm still working on getting a few textures together for the (Pratt?) deck truss bridges I need. I will send photos and textures to you soon.
Regards
Mike

 

[bendorsey]

Let me take a peek at the portals and see if there is anything I can do.

EDIT: I just looked at all 4 in Surveyor (2004) and don't see any dighole blue peeking thru anywhere. Perhaps put real rocks up there to hide it (not a rock texture)?

I've never done catenary so I'll pass if you don't mind.

Ben

 

[steamboateng]

It's been a bad day for the Hoosac all around;
I played with the tunnel and surface, but no luck, the surface edge still penetrtes the roof; seems to be an issue with TS12 and the 5 meter surface grid.
I tried to put tunnel catenary in, but along 4.75 miles the tunnel is somewhat bendy and doesn't respond to the 'straighten' command in surveyor, resulting in the cat being out of alignment with the tunnel.

 

[bendorsey]

Oops - I didn't think of the 5 meter grid.

Tell me which one your using and I'll send you the original Gmax mesh (assuming you Gmax that is, lol).

If your interested PM me your e-mail address.

Ben

 

[JCitron]

Hi Mike,

Is this site helpful?

http://hoosactunnel.com/index.php

There is also a museum in North Adams, I think, dedicated to the tunnel. Perhaps they would have the information you need.

John

 

[steamboateng]

Hi John! I went thru that site,; ate up every word and photo. It is the most informative of all the Hoosac sites I could find; but emphasis is on the tunnel, not so much the electrificatin. However, on another site I dug this up; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHS7pklI9IQ ; somethin' you grayhairs might appreciate.
This new route is an interesting one: we got the Hoosac Tunnel; the beautiful Berkshires with windy B&M trackage following the valley of the Deerfeild River down to the Connecticut River; the Deerfeild yards and facilities (still in operation under Pan Am); and operational interest via interchanges with the Boston and Albany, Vermont Central, New Haven, and New York Central. And the route just begs for steam power; the old Pacifics, the Berkshires, and Moutain types. A guy can have a lot of fun with all the options the route offers.
Five or six years ago the Cheif Mate and I used to vacation a bit in the Mt Greylock area, but we never did make it over to the tunnel, just few miles away; and although we went into North Adams for dinner and drink, I never could get her to the Heritage museum. (Heck, it took 18 years to get her into Steamtown without the kids!)
But I do thank you for the pointers.
Regards

 

[JCitron]

That video is awesome, Mike! The catenary looks like the same as used on the BRB&L and the New Haven. The motors look like the Baldwin/Westinghouse motors. I think PWeiser made some for Trainz. He lettered them for the New Haven, but that's easily changed. It's interesting to note too that the New Haven owned the B&M around that time that the motors were first used. I wonder if their intention was to electrify the whole line from the Berkshires to Boston. It would have made for some interesting operations now if they had. Your route sounds really interesting and I'll have to see it some day. I'm not sure if I'd want to make it present day with PAR/PAS running the line, well maybe Norfolk Southern only along with the NYC, New Haven, and B&M. Hehe, get rid of the Guilford/PAR mess we have now.

It's too bad many of the old-timers are gone now - the ones that would truly remember where the cat ended. My former piano teacher's dad worked for the B&M and originally came from that area. He would have definitely have remember this. The same with my late neighbor who just passed away a few years ago. He too was a passenger train conductor and worked the long distance trains to Troy then later the commuter service.

I've been out to Mt. Greylock myself a long time ago. In fact I some of my early driving experience while heading out there. My dad took over before we got to the hairpin turn on Route 2 and climbed the mountain. I got to drive the other parts including to and from the Berkshires. For me it was the longest distance I had driven up to that point!

John

 

[steamboateng]

There are, indeed, Hoosac electrics on the DLS for TS10-12. And yes they are Balwin-Westinghouse built. The original motors were built specifically for the Hoosac Tunnel service, and several New Haven EP-1's were later added to the roster.
Yes, the New Haven had control of the B&M at that time; though evidence suggests there never was any serious consideration of electrifying all the way to Boston. The tunnel was electrified simply to alleviate the asphixiating effects of smoke on crews and passengers.
This route was one of the busiest in New England at one time. The tunnel was a bottleneck to east-west traffic and ran 'round the clock. The trackage in the area is only a fraction of what it once was.
Just wandering about the completed DEM map in Trainz, one can appreciate the enormous effort in construction, and the capitol invested in track and service facilities (I'm using USGS mid to late 1940's overlays).
I would love to go back out to the North Adams area when The Cheif Mate gets her week off in April, but we're already commited to North Conway for the week. Maybe I can sneek sumthin' in during the summer. Last time we were out that way, about 5 years ago, I let her drive. She took that hairpin turn and decent into North Adams about 10 mph more than a rational person ought to able too. I nearly pee'd my drawers. I certainly let her know how I felt about her driving!
I'm beginning to suspect the electrification ended (somewhere?) around Hoosac Station. It's another windy 22 miles or so eastbound to any facilities at Deerfeild. From what I could gather so far, maintenance on the electrics was performed at North Adams.
mike

 

[JCitron]

That's really cool history, thank you for that. This is my favorite part of railroads.

What's interesting is how the electric current was changed from 66kv 60hz down to the 11kv 25 hz just like the NH used on the rest of their system. I wasn't aware of the B&M electrics on the DLS. I know that the EP-1s were similar. Are they a little bit shorter due to the original height of the tunnel and catenary? They seem a bit shorter, unless that's just my perception from the film.

I'm going to poke around Google Earth and Bing and see what I can find for evidence, if any of cat poles. You've piqued my interest in this! You should send a video of the final project (if a Trainz project ever becomes close to final) to the museum. I'm sure they'd surely appreciate your work and the accuracy that you've put into it. It beats some of the plastic models these people used for their representation of the tunnel. I saw this on the other documentary by the same people who got the historic video of the electrics.

The area is something I have to visit when I get a chance. Sadly, I'm not allowed to drive long distances anymore otherwise I'd go out there myself and visit. If I can get a ride, I'm fine. It's the driving that's an issue. I've looked at the older topo maps of the area, sadly we've lost a lot of rail lines including the HT&W which became part of a reservoir on the Deerfield River, I think.

John

 

[steamboateng]

I've been checking out some of the USRA steamers on the DLS, suitable for TS10-12. Certainly the major roads traversing that area had a few. Changing a few roadnames in the texture files, hopefully won't be too much of a chore.
There's lots of pix on internet, showing the tunnel area, east and west, and it's still an attraction for trains watchers. But little remains of the old electric facilities. All the cat and pylons are gone. Some building foundations remain.
I'll have a small section of the HT&W on the route as well as a descent showing of the B&A/NYC running east/west and New Haven running north/south. The Central Vermont ran north/south into Springfeild, Ma. As a matter of fact, they all went into Springfeild. (The maps are pretty much WWII vintage and Springfeild as well as Winchester had considerable facilities in that city.)
A future project, I already have georeferencd maps and TransDEM routes pegged as well as the USGS DEM data. That came with those huge 1x1 deg dem data downloads. Heck, I could get 3 or 4 different routes from a single download!

 

[JCitron]

It sounds like you'll have some fun ahead with the DEMs in the area. That's what is so great about the big slices. I too have gotten quite a few routes out of the eastern parts I've downloaded.

I've been looking at Google Earth. I have a feeling that the cat ended at the yard in Florida, MA. which is on the eastern end. There was a fairly big yard and what appears to have been a servicing facility. The only way to find out is to walk the ROW and look for rusty-concrete footings. This isn't such a great idea though since walking the ROW can get one in trouble! The other place to inquire about this would be Railroad.net. I may post of there and ask. I'm sure someone will have the answer.

Springfield was the place for all the railroads to head in those days. It was one of the biggest industrial centers in Western MA and was on the crossing of two main railroads and it was on the Connecticut River. Springfield was also the home of railroad manufacturing as there were a few freight car and parts manufacturers in the city. Sadly, like every big city in MA, all of this is gone and Springfield is a derelict mess. Be careful if you're planning on doing any exploring around there. I heard it's like Lawrence!

John

 

[steamboateng]

From old photos I've determined that electrification certainly extended as far east as Hoosac Station, which was located in Rowe. This station was in the area of the Mill Road bridge, a wood decked Warren truss auto bridge, that crossed the Deerfield R. and which shows up quite clearly on the Google Earth views. Triple track continued to extend just east of Beaver Is. where the main line shortened up to double track all the way to Deerfeild.
The 'yard', starting just east of the Deefeild R. deck truss bridge, appears to be a collection point for trains traversing the tunnel. Service appears to limited to water and sand and a change of engines. There was a tower in the area also.
The Springfeil route I plan as a separate route, connectd via Trainz portals.

 

[steamboateng]

Well, I guess I'll answer my own question then!
Grabbing up a 'Google shovel', I started to dig.....and dig......and I finally came up with some old publications, some ancient (i.e. 1911) almost, and found out everything I ever wanted to know about Hoosac electricity!
Hoosac Electricity is alot like the electricity we have today..............except, of course it's older.........and shorter; 7.9 miles short, to be precise. The cat was supplied with single phase 11kv @25hz for the box motors. It ran from the west end of the North Adams yard to just past Hoosac Station (my lucky guess). It covered 22 miles of track.
There is little on the DLS that resembes the original except perhaps the yard pylons. There is nothing resembling the 2 and 3 track cat bridges. I'm going to make those.
Adventure in science over....back to 'Surveyor'.
Thanks Ben and John for your commentary.............at least it made the thread a bit more interesting.
Regards

 

[JCitron]

There are some New Haven type cat splines on USLW. George Fisher made them ages ago. They may work for you if you're interested.

Good call on the east side.

John

 

[steamboateng]

I will check them out.