amigacooke
Well-known member
No, don't remember that ever happening. Replies just seemed to generate more questions ad infinitum.
Does Trainz have a future?
- Thread starter Thierry_St_Malo
- Start date
I've been wondering, too, about the idea of a 'new' DLS - we know the existing one is extensively corrupted with old assets that are full of errors that cause problems for later versions of Trainz from TRS06 onwards.
As Auran have never bothered to clean up the existing DLS, couldn't we just draw a line under it and move on? A new, parallel, DLS only accessible to registered owners of TS09/10 with new and corrected content that is fully compatible with native mode? Auran could then invite asset creators to migrate their content over, or indeed the Auran team could do it themselves for the 'best' content leaving behind the 'legacy' content for those with older versions of the game.
At the moment, asking a new user with TS10 to go onto the DLS is like asking them to enter a minefield, without a guide or detector. We need something better.
Paul
As Auran have never bothered to clean up the existing DLS, couldn't we just draw a line under it and move on? A new, parallel, DLS only accessible to registered owners of TS09/10 with new and corrected content that is fully compatible with native mode? Auran could then invite asset creators to migrate their content over, or indeed the Auran team could do it themselves for the 'best' content leaving behind the 'legacy' content for those with older versions of the game.
At the moment, asking a new user with TS10 to go onto the DLS is like asking them to enter a minefield, without a guide or detector. We need something better.
Paul
I just had a rant over in the 2009 forums about the constant need to fix older content. Its not an issue of fixing the DLS, its more of an issue of fixing each version of Trainz.
You can't tell me the programers didn't run into problems adding all the older content into 09/10. Raising the bar for error checking may be a good idea, but not practical from a lot of end users positions. Incorporating something like PEV's software into CMP so it automatically fixes errors on import would be a huge step. Something invisible and seamless so that the person downloading doesn't even know it happened.
Trainz relies heavily on third party content to sell their product. It still amazes me that they would not take into account how all the new error checking would affect their biggest asset, the DLS. Imagine a kid loading the program up only to find a lot of what's available useless until he learns how to fix all the new goodies he downloaded, if he can. My young nephew loves Trainz but 2009 wouldn't last long with him.
Asking Auran and all the great content providers to "fix" everything on the DLS would be pretty unfair. But, it was Auran who raised the error checking bar to make a lot of content useless for most. If they want to keep sales going, attract more users and keep the third party creators going (who are actually selling their product for them) they need to incorporate the "fixing" part into each version of Trainz and CMP they sell. Its the only feasable way to clean up all this.
Dave........
Dave.......
You can't tell me the programers didn't run into problems adding all the older content into 09/10. Raising the bar for error checking may be a good idea, but not practical from a lot of end users positions. Incorporating something like PEV's software into CMP so it automatically fixes errors on import would be a huge step. Something invisible and seamless so that the person downloading doesn't even know it happened.
Trainz relies heavily on third party content to sell their product. It still amazes me that they would not take into account how all the new error checking would affect their biggest asset, the DLS. Imagine a kid loading the program up only to find a lot of what's available useless until he learns how to fix all the new goodies he downloaded, if he can. My young nephew loves Trainz but 2009 wouldn't last long with him.
Asking Auran and all the great content providers to "fix" everything on the DLS would be pretty unfair. But, it was Auran who raised the error checking bar to make a lot of content useless for most. If they want to keep sales going, attract more users and keep the third party creators going (who are actually selling their product for them) they need to incorporate the "fixing" part into each version of Trainz and CMP they sell. Its the only feasable way to clean up all this.
Dave........
Dave.......
American_Connections
AC MonkeyWrench Models
Wake up call!
I think if you only click the version you are using, assets for earlier versions will not show. That is how it is supposed to work anyway.
I totally agree with you on this, I would also like to see a new DLS but instead of a site with stacks of dependencies, that take up a lot of server space, how about a site with just one CDP for each item of rolling stock or an engine or whatever you want.
All you do is sign in, go to search, type what you want, this gives you a picture of what you want, and it gives you save CDP, the CDP contains the completed item, bogies, bodywork, couplers everything, click on CDP and you get the whole item quickly and error free. And you can get the item whether you have Trainz 2009/2010 installed on your pc or not, as long as you have a serial number, that will enable you to get the item...
The site would be exactly like this below...
Name: BR HTV LP01 KUID: 92263:13101
Trainz Version: 2009 and 2010
Links: CDP
Notes: Low poly version of HTV hopper
Name: BR HTV LP02 KUID: 92263:13102
Trainz Version: 2009 and 2010
Links: CDP
Notes: Low poly version of HTV hopper
IMAGES TAKEN FROM LTSV TRAINZ, visit site here... http://www.ltsv.com/t_proj_13.php
This would create easier access to CDP's along with a faster download speed. You just go to the DLS site, get your CDP and go. But just to add, for those with First Class Tickets, you have access to content up to two months in advance before being released on the DLS, this way Auran still makes money and the product is also tested before it goes on the DLS for use to all...
Hope this helps
Joe Airtime
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johnwhelan
Well-known member
The simplest method would be to go through the DLS and correct the content dropping in a new version number at the same time. The community has the resources to do this, Auran could let us do it.
Cheerio John
You've already got it.
You can only select the TS2010/TS2009 items if you have registered those versions' serial numbers.
I have been with TRAINZ since before the first release and have spent 1000's of hours with the progam.
I have to say that, in my opininion TS2010 is the best release of TRAINZ since TRAINZ itself .... and this is, in part, due to the inclusion of Speedtrees which I find brings TRAINZ alive.
cheers
Michael
I have to say that, in my opininion TS2010 is the best release of TRAINZ since TRAINZ itself .... and this is, in part, due to the inclusion of Speedtrees which I find brings TRAINZ alive.
cheers
Michael
John,
That would be ideal but I wonder how many problems it could possibly create. After an item is fixed and renumbered, do you keep the two versions? If not a downloaded item like a route would never find all the needed dependencies it needs. Now you need to fix every config file to reflect the new numbers. And, what happens when the next version of Trainz obsoletes what you just fixed?
Also, what about all the great content not on the DLS. PEV has already proved most faulty items can be repaired with little or no knowledge by a user of the inner workings of the content itself. Instead of forcing some people to adopt the new standards or while waiting for everyone to relearn how to create for Trainz, correcting it on download would be a great stop gap. Also a "second check" later on.
The DLS isn't such a mess as much as outdated, but only because the game standards have changed.
Dave.......
That would be ideal but I wonder how many problems it could possibly create. After an item is fixed and renumbered, do you keep the two versions? If not a downloaded item like a route would never find all the needed dependencies it needs. Now you need to fix every config file to reflect the new numbers. And, what happens when the next version of Trainz obsoletes what you just fixed?
Also, what about all the great content not on the DLS. PEV has already proved most faulty items can be repaired with little or no knowledge by a user of the inner workings of the content itself. Instead of forcing some people to adopt the new standards or while waiting for everyone to relearn how to create for Trainz, correcting it on download would be a great stop gap. Also a "second check" later on.
The DLS isn't such a mess as much as outdated, but only because the game standards have changed.
Dave.......
This has been raised a thousand times. It would increase bandwidth and slow the DLS to a crawl. If every asset is packed as one with every dependency then if you download say twenty similar freight cars all using the same bogie, enginespec, loading effects script, and ten products you are going to d/l all those dependencies twenty times instead of once.
The quick efficient system is the present one. You download twenty freight cars but you download all the associated baggage just once.
And please explain why non-TRS09/10 owners should be denied access to corrected DLS content which will run better in all versions of Trainz...
Andy
And please explain why non-TRS09/10 owners should be denied access to corrected DLS content which will run better in all versions of Trainz...
Andy
Any one not helping to pay for the coal should maybe hop off the train .. Given the expections of some users I read on these forums , those that buy 1 or at best 2 versions and then expect to get a free ride all the way , it might be best if Auran dropped support for old versions .
Auran might then get some funding for continued development .
Of course some people don't care whether Auran fail or not ... their only interest is the DLS .
.
I have uninstalled TS2010 and frankly, apart from the ECML, think I pretty much wasted my money. My main gripe(s) as previously documented are that underneath all the pretty new gloss it is still essentially Trainz CE ticking away. Nothing brings that home more profoundly than running the solitary session supplied with the ECML. Here we are, on a four track Inter-City main line in real life controlled from a remote Panel signalbox and I have to manually switch the points in order to access the correct track departing Doncaster?
I mean come on, that approach might have been okay on the original tail chaser model railway style Trainz layouts in the early days but if you have aspirations to be a prototype simulator, then you need to do things as the prototype does?
That also goes for timetable operation and monitoring. Yes I know there are some scripts about that if you know what you're doing can help, but this basic functionality needs to be in the core.
I found Speedtree to be laughable. Without leaves, they stick up in the air like a row of oversized rude body parts. As already discussed in another thread, the much vaunted 5m terrain grid (admittedly introduced in TS2009) creates such a performance hit it is pretty much unuseable on anything but the highest spec computer.
In short there's nothing for me in TS2010 that TRS2006 or at a pinch TS2009 doesn't already offer. I sincerely doubt I'll be buying another one unless there are substantive improvements and changes in the core and I honestly wish there was some way of getting my £25 back.
I mean come on, that approach might have been okay on the original tail chaser model railway style Trainz layouts in the early days but if you have aspirations to be a prototype simulator, then you need to do things as the prototype does?
That also goes for timetable operation and monitoring. Yes I know there are some scripts about that if you know what you're doing can help, but this basic functionality needs to be in the core.
I found Speedtree to be laughable. Without leaves, they stick up in the air like a row of oversized rude body parts. As already discussed in another thread, the much vaunted 5m terrain grid (admittedly introduced in TS2009) creates such a performance hit it is pretty much unuseable on anything but the highest spec computer.
In short there's nothing for me in TS2010 that TRS2006 or at a pinch TS2009 doesn't already offer. I sincerely doubt I'll be buying another one unless there are substantive improvements and changes in the core and I honestly wish there was some way of getting my £25 back.
American_Connections
AC MonkeyWrench Models
Laws of business
You really think they should set a standard to stop supposting older products just because something new comes out! logic will tell people that it is not a good idea to spend money for something that will be worthless in one year, so bye bye birdie!
Support = customers. Customers = sales. Sales = money!
You really think they should set a standard to stop supposting older products just because something new comes out! logic will tell people that it is not a good idea to spend money for something that will be worthless in one year, so bye bye birdie!
TRS2004 scenarios can definitely change junctions under program control and I suspect there's probably a Rule to do it in a driver session, in which case the fault lies with the session design, not with the fundamentals of TS2010. However, one might argue that a built-in item should have been subjected to tighter quality control in that respect.
John
<p>
<p> </p>
Untold Amounts Complaints About Lack Of Support = Bad Press , Bad Press = Lack Of Sales , Lack Of Sales = No Money!
Catch 22
Or are you not reading any of these forums ?? ... See Verns post above as an example .
<p>
For clarity
And yes I do ... something else you've apparently not read .
Try it again mate
</p>
<p> </p>
Untold Amounts Complaints About Lack Of Support = Bad Press , Bad Press = Lack Of Sales , Lack Of Sales = No Money!
Catch 22
Or are you not reading any of these forums ?? ... See Verns post above as an example .
<p>
</p>
For clarity
And yes I do ... something else you've apparently not read .
Try it again mate
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American_Connections
AC MonkeyWrench Models
yes or no?
Even we do not speak the same language, you are, in the first part saying exactly the same thing as I, only in the nevative. The, in the second part, you want to disagree with your own statement. Make up your mind!<p></p>
<p> </p>
Untold Amounts Complaints About Lack Of Support = Bad Press , Bad Press = Lack Of Sales , Lack Of Sales = No Money!
Catch 22
Or are you not reading any of these forums ?? ... See Verns post above as an example .
For clarity
And yes I do ... something else you've apparently not read .
Could you please tell me where to get support for Win95/98/ME/NT4/2000, you can't, and soon XP will lose support, Vista was a flop, yet when Win7 came out people rushed out to buy it, kinda tears holes in your statement doesn't it.
Bill got rich by forcing upgrades due to stopping support for the older O/S's, give me his form of logic over yours any day
Cheers David
Glad you understand ... see we do speak the same language
I've fixed the quote .. it was in the right place but there's now a lot garbage characters in the post .. something went wrong there
But to reiterate ... Yes I think they should drop support . Continuing support is not a good thing .. imo
American_Connections
AC MonkeyWrench Models
?
and
"Support = customers. Customers = sales. Sales = money!"
Now, drop the support and you drop the money, right!
Keep the support and you keep your customers and even get more through them.
So more customers means more money, right! How can you feel dropping support will benefit anyone?
"Untold Amounts Complaints About Lack Of Support = Bad Press , Bad Press = Lack Of Sales , Lack Of Sales = No Money!"Glad you understand ... see we do speak the same language
I've fixed the quote .. it was in the right place but there's now a lot garbage characters in the post .. something went wrong there
But to reiterate ... Yes I think they should drop support . Continuing support is not a good thing .. imo
and
"Support = customers. Customers = sales. Sales = money!"
Now, drop the support and you drop the money, right!
Keep the support and you keep your customers and even get more through them.
So more customers means more money, right! How can you feel dropping support will benefit anyone?
What support are you talking about ?? ... the only versions of the software that Auran are actively patching are TS2009 and TS2010 .. so you must be talking about that 2000lb DLS anchor hanging around their neck . The very same DLS that most complaints are about ... thread topic on this page >> " Is the DLS some-ones Laptop " ..rofl . This is the same anchor i'm talking about ... ditch it and start over .. less complaints about faulty content and better PR for Auran.
What money and customers are you talking about ?? I've read the names of most of the posters in the 2010 and 2009 forums , not a lot of names there at all and far fewer in the 2010 forum than I was expecting , so it seems to that there's not a lot of money floating in Aurans direction. You and I will only guess at figures .. only Auran know the real story , but my guess is that sales did not go well , and that the complaints about 2010 will hinder further sales .