Another look at the GE Hybrid locomotive

Tokkyu40

Active member
I'm sure there was an earlier thread on this, but it's interesting, so here it is: The General Electric GE 2021 Hybrid locomotive...

Pulling into LA Union Station as the Surfliner pulls out...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vj5WoQ3fvU&NR=1

The factory simulator...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqAeB4tqkJs&feature=related

And whispering along the tracks in electric mode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuhmUuzN6jI&NR=1

And this is what they're trying to replace. Some testing may be a liitle overboard... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSJw8AhtdrA&feature=related

:cool: Claude
 
Excellent idea considering the amount of energy that is wasted by conventional diesel/electrics. Considering that if every locomotive in America was made hybrid, the savings in fuel cost to top $400 million, and nitogren oxide emissions would drop by 15-20 percent.
 
HOLY CRAP someone needs to make an SP loco that does that...that was FUNNY!

SPORBUST has re-uploaded his locos to his site. He has been banned from the DLS...and many of his previously upcoming locos require files from there that he no longer has on his comp due to a recent reformat and rebuild. Fortunately for us all, everything he has released to date is still available, including the BNSF ES44AC.
 
Hybrid? Bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh, I'd like to see one of these machines converted to run on biodiesel. Looks good though:hehe:

WileeCoyote:D
 
Now THAT is an idea. Biodiesel locomotives!

I live just up the hill from the main northern Seattle yard, Balmer (Interbay to the locals) Yard. I could put the idea to them and they could send it on to GE.
 
Better run on alcohol then, or methanol.

Figures of 2002;

Railroads in USA carried 27.8% of the ton-miles of freight using 220,000 barrels of diesel/day.

Heavy trucks carried 32.1% of the ton-miles using 2,070,000 barrels of diesel/day

This means Railroads are 8 times more fuel-efficient than heavy trucks, and going from trucks to electic powered Railroads would mean 20:1. Electrifying all Railroads in USA would only tax the electrical grid with another 1,4%. However, no one has spoken about the cost of a complete electrification...
 
Better run on alcohol then, or methanol.

Figures of 2002;

Railroads in USA carried 27.8% of the ton-miles of freight using 220,000 barrels of diesel/day.

Heavy trucks carried 32.1% of the ton-miles using 2,070,000 barrels of diesel/day

This means Railroads are 8 times more fuel-efficient than heavy trucks, and going from trucks to electic powered Railroads would mean 20:1. Electrifying all Railroads in USA would only tax the electrical grid with another 1,4%. However, no one has spoken about the cost of a complete electrification...

The purpose of this hybrid is recycling the energy produced by braking and storing them in batteries to provide electric power.
 
Correct.
Dynamic braking, in case you aren't aware, is when the DC/AC traction motors normally used to DRIVE a locomotive are used in reverse (not rotation just purpose) to slow down a locomotive. This actually produces electricity, which while usually exhausted as heat, can be used for something.

Unfortunately there's just not any way to be truely fuel efficient. Read the scientific articles around. Nothing is as efficient as petroleum based fuels.
Hydrogen power: Great only exhausts drinkable water. Only one problem the energy needed to produce the hydrogen in a given situation is somewhere in the ballpark of 10 (TEN) times that of what it takes to produce the same amount of petroleum. So to burn hydrogen I need to burn 10 times the amount of petroleum (and I'm not keen on riding around in what basically amounts to a Hydrogen bomb).
Bio-Diesel: Great stuff, really it is. BUT here's the problem with it. Bio-diesel needs to be kept at a high temperature to function. The only way to do this (say with a car) is to warm it up with, you guessed it petroleum based diesel. So that's 2 fuel tanks, twice as much weight, 1/2 the storage space. Do the math, but it's pretty obvious.
E-85 (aka Corn). Good clean stuff, but two problems arise with ethanol. First, it's not that efficient, it's cheaper but doesn't burn that well in terms of power, in the end it ends up being less efficient (to a degree). The second problem comes from availability. Corn is readily available (at least now), but two more problems have appeared in that area. First the price for corn has gone up considerably because of supply and demand. Second there's less corn for any number of other products (including as a food source). So at the end of the day it's not worth the hassle. And in terms of a car, except for recent cars, older ones will require a complete rebuild or a brand new engine.

In the end, it's more efficient and cheaper to burn petroleum based fuels, it's a fact. What can be done though, is cleaning up those emissions, not vain searching for an un-obtainable replacement.

As for complete electrification, so where's the power for those lines going to come from? If a coal burning plant is built to supply those needs, we're right back to square one. On the other hand a nuclear plant would be great, except there's no chance of that happening, so still stuck at square one.

Cookiemae: No SPORBUST is making the ES44AC GEVO, don't know if he's planning on the ES44HAC or ES44DC GEVO's
 
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Correct.
Dynamic braking, in case you aren't aware, is when the DC/AC traction motors normally used to DRIVE a locomotive are used in reverse (not rotation just purpose) to slow down a locomotive. This actually produces electricity, which while usually exhausted as heat, can be used for something.

Unfortunately there's just not any way to be truely fuel efficient. Read the scientific articles around. Nothing is as efficient as petroleum based fuels.
Hydrogen power: Great only exhausts drinkable water. Only one problem the energy needed to produce the hydrogen in a given situation is somewhere in the ballpark of 10 (TEN) times that of what it takes to produce the same amount of petroleum. So to burn hydrogen I need to burn 10 times the amount of petroleum (and I'm not keen on riding around in what basically amounts to a Hydrogen bomb).
Bio-Diesel: Great stuff, really it is. BUT here's the problem with it. Bio-diesel needs to be kept at a high temperature to function. The only way to do this (say with a car) is to warm it up with, you guessed it petroleum based diesel. So that's 2 fuel tanks, twice as much weight, 1/2 the storage space. Do the math, but it's pretty obvious.
E-85 (aka Corn). Good clean stuff, but two problems arise with ethanol. First, it's not that efficient, it's cheaper but doesn't burn that well in terms of power, in the end it ends up being less efficient (to a degree). The second problem comes from availability. Corn is readily available (at least now), but two more problems have appeared in that area. First the price for corn has gone up considerably because of supply and demand. Second there's less corn for any number of other products (including as a food source). So at the end of the day it's not worth the hassle. And in terms of a car, except for recent cars, older ones will require a complete rebuild or a brand new engine.

In the end, it's more efficient and cheaper to burn petroleum based fuels, it's a fact. What can be done though, is cleaning up those emissions, not vain searching for an un-obtainable replacement.

As for complete electrification, so where's the power for those lines going to come from? If a coal burning plant is built to supply those needs, we're right back to square one. On the other hand a nuclear plant would be great, except there's no chance of that happening, so still stuck at square one.

Cookiemae: No SPORBUST is making the ES44AC GEVO, don't know if he's planning on the ES44HAC or ES44DC GEVO's

Well said. For environmentalism in Trainz disable the smoke on the loco.:hehe:
 
...the obvious solution...

8) Yes, the move toward corn, is fast becoming apparently the way of "Hee-Haw."

The outset of this topic, is that the current usage of petroleum as fuel, is undergoing high technology fuel consumption conservation...meaning the roads using petroleum based fuels, will squeeze every bit of power from every drop of fuel used, and dynamic electric braking, generating power to save via battery is one of those technologies.

Diesel technology, has long recognized that power is lost to heat buildup. Diesel engines tend to heat, rather than load, wasting power.

Ambient air temps, brought the usage of after-cooling of the air between the turbo, and the air manifold. GE, has a patent history of after-cooler usage, with the FDL engine(remembering that the FDL, is a four cycle Diesel engine).

As for the locomotive fuel consumption, it all depends on the operator/engineer/driver.

The basic factors of fleet purchasing, are cost, with GE as cheapest, EMD as higher priced, but longer service life.

Good thread...
 
The purpose of this hybrid is recycling the energy produced by braking and storing them in batteries to provide electric power.
They alter the current to the field windings to use the motor as a generator. Dynamic brakes use massive resistors to burn of the electricity as heat, hybrids feed it back into batteries. Also, they can runn a smaller engine at higher speeds to pump up the batteries, then run on battery power alone for a while. This lets them only run the engine at it's peak efficient speed, rather than matching engine speed to load. This lets them do more work with less fuel.
On the other hand, hybrid cars don't run big over-revved v-8 engines, so they're less fun to some people.

:cool: Claude
 
The big problem with hybrids which nobody has ever taken notice of is the batteries. Batteries, rechargables included, don't last forever. Eventually they lose their charge capacity and they need to be replaced, anyone who has owned a laptop for a few years knows this. Sadly, those poor saps buying Prius's by the dozen don't seem to comprehend that. Within 15 years the battery will need to be replaced, which means paying a hefty disposal fee and paying even more to buy a new battery since the warranty will be long gone by then. It is a much more feasable option to go diesel, biodiesel, or waste veggie oil (the latter option being the cheapest as your local McD's will be all too glad to give it to you).

WileeCoyote:D
 
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