Simulation Study

Personally, I would never, ever ride a driverless train, however safe it claims to be, under any circumstances. There have been several incidents related to AI trains, even if there is a small glitch in the system there could be a major disaster. Computers, however much people want to believe it, can not replace a human's instinct.
 
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While 1 or 2 automated vehicles on the road may not be an issue, there are serious questions to be asked when the roads are full of them.
Why?
Because of the monitoring systems (most based on a radar system) where the vehicle will be inundated by signals from other vehicles. These other signals will interfere with your car's signal and reduce its accuracy and depth of field it can "see" clearly.
The current trials are too simplistic.
My town is getting a fleet of automated electric cars but they will only run on special areas away from other vehicles. Basically there are running on the pavement and will have a fixed route too. They just have to avoid running down the pedestrians so their top speed will be limited thankfully. Feel sorry for any blind person who uses these pavements as these silent 2 seater vehicles will be a pain for them.
 
While 1 or 2 automated vehicles on the road may not be an issue, there are serious questions to be asked when the roads are full of them.
Why?
Because of the monitoring systems (most based on a radar system) where the vehicle will be inundated by signals from other vehicles. These other signals will interfere with your car's signal and reduce its accuracy and depth of field it can "see" clearly.
The current trials are too simplistic.
My town is getting a fleet of automated electric cars but they will only run on special areas away from other vehicles. Basically there are running on the pavement and will have a fixed route too. They just have to avoid running down the pedestrians so their top speed will be limited thankfully. Feel sorry for any blind person who uses these pavements as these silent 2 seater vehicles will be a pain for them.

I cannot speak for the development of autonomous cars, but the development of driverless trucks I have been involved with by way of the M6 motorway trials here in the UK which over the last two years have gone well without a single safety incident. The Scania and Volvo 40 ton articulated trucks involved have eight independent systems fitted with each having four separate backups to each system.

The autonomous guidence and operating systems consist of a range of sensors including lasers, infrared, GPS, camera technology and several other newly developed technologies such as " active geometry" and building recognition technology in conjunction with Google maps street view. The forgoing controls all aspects of the vehicles progress on any set schedule.

The trials have taken the vehicles along the almost the full length of the M6 and into the cities of Manchester, Birmingham and Liverpool without problems. Of course at this stage there is always a qualified driver on board ready to override the autonomous systems instantly should the need arise. However, since the start of 2017 the need for that to happen has not been brought about.

In the above much of the technology being used is already in existence in production cars. My own car has forward collision and lane change control which on a rain soaked motorway on a dark winter's night is absolutely invaluable. If the vehicle in front has similar technology then as soon as that vehicle starts to brake my car does the same and in that informs the vehicle travelling behind if it is fitted with similar technology. Control is transferred from the drivers to the on board computers taking over the braking, speed and distance maintenance from the vehicle in front and to the rear. Should the vehicle forward not have such a system fitted then his slowing or accelerating is immediately picked up by my vehicle through its systems and my vehicle responds accordingly

Autonomous rail technology is already developing in the same areas I would imagine. In that, with both Network Rail and the Office of Road and Rail talking of trains on Britain's busiest sections of the network traveling no more than one minute apart such technology will most definitely be required.

Bill
 
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This all seems to be getting far from the original request, which was for things an engineer must monitor while operating a train.

Trackage: Sun kinks in welded rail. Washouts and subsidence. Turnout state. Intrusions on right-of-way including vehicles and livestock (including bipeds,) speed change indications.

MsRailroad is setting up a study of visual perception, yes? How connected to conditioned or reasoned response is the study, out of curiosity?

:B~)
BA Psi
 
This all seems to be getting far from the original request, which was for things an engineer must monitor while operating a train.

And the OT probably doesn't really belong in General Trainz either, maybe Prototype Talk or one of the other non-Trainz specific subs?
 
And the OT probably doesn't really belong in General Trainz either, maybe Prototype Talk or one of the other non-Trainz specific subs?

Probably true, but while it's here we might stick to the topic.

Pulling into a station? All the above while operating the controls to make the stop as smooth as possible for the passengers. And minding the train-length markers to ensure the passengers de-train where they should.

:B~)
 
Hi Dave:
Thank you for responding. So if you were an engineer operating on the main line, is there something besides the things I listed in the original post, where a radio communication may distract you? For example, we're expecting if an engineer was approaching a signal where he should see it all the way through, if a radio communication came in at the same time, he may stop looking at the signal and it could drop right before he goes through, and he/she wouldn't see it.

Any scenarios like a signals you mentioned below, where engineer should definitely take notice? How would a tunnel possibly fit into this? I'm not aware of what an engineer looks at in or around tunnels.
My apologies for the delay in answering your questions. My health has not been what I would have wanted these last few days. Considerably better now though, I'm glad to say.

My experience is of driving trains in the UK where radio chatter is considerably less than in the U.S. or Australia. In the UK, even if there is another (authorised) member of staff on the footplate with the driver (engineer), rules and ettiquette dictate that that person will fall silent and not distract the train driver if the train approaches a caution or danger signal or is enters a place where the train must be brought to a halt (stations, sidings, yards etc..) However, most British trains are single manned these days - but the principle still applies should anyone enter the cab environment. Furthermore, the driver in charge of the train would also ignore ANY and ALL radio calls until such time as his train had been brought safely to a stand or it was safe for him/her to respond to the radio away from all possible dangerous situations. Obviously, emergency situations could and would change priorities should it become necessary.

When approaching caution signals, a driver always has the signal in sight but not necessarily by looking directly at it. Peripheral vision comes into play, especially when there are various other activities going on in the immediate area. However, should that signal change aspect then the driver's full attention immediatley comes back to it and he/she will respond accordingly. Drivers place their absolute trust in signals - if they didn't they would never go above 10 mph - and as such, every signal conveys a message to a driver that he/she will do his/her utmost to never miss. No matter how many years you've been doing the job, a caution signal will make any driver "tune in" full on and be ready to respond in the appropriate manner. When approaching a danger signal, however, it is firmly fixed in the driver's vision at all times. Nothing else matters. To a train driver, a red signal is a brick wall! (And as they tell you in training here in the UK, anything on this side of it is yours. Anything on the other side of it belongs to the boss - and you don't want to be meeting the boss over this particular issue.)

When entering stations, drivers will scan the full length of the platform ahead of them for possible problems, e.g. hyperactive kids messing about and pushing each other towards the track as part of their tomfoolery, parcels, baby buggies or anything else potentially too close the platform edge to be considered safe or even potential suicidal people; as well as a multitude of other scenarios. After that quick scan, your main vison is then concentrated on roughly the area you will be bringing the train to a stop - but everything else remains in play too.

When approaching tunnels, several things come into play. Firstly, I want to know that the tunnel is still a tunnel, i.e. it hasn't suddenly become a cave. If I can normally see right through the tunnel then I'll be quickly checking to make sure that I can do on this occasion too. Instinct will also warn you if there is any unexpected change to the shape of the tunnel (sagging roof, bulging wall). Your brain has logged a picture in its memory banks over numerous visits to the area you are now approaching and it's amazing how that picture can be instantly recalled when something is "not quite right." I also want to know that the tunnel mouth/portal is still in good condition with no bits falling off or hanging down? Are there any obvious signs of a landslide/slip or large quantities of water entering or flowing out of the tunnel? These are all observations made in seconds but done everytime without even thinking about it.

Once in the tunnel, vision is obviously extremely limited - especially if the tunnel has one or more curves in it. In the darkness you are on the lookout for anyone potentially working in the tunnel or walking through the tunnel (authorised persons would normally be aware of your presence and they would know where to safely stand but their lights/torches would be visible to you. Unauthorised persons usually end up as mincemeat and you generally only know that they were there at the last second or when you hear the "bump" as you knock them over.) Apart from the visuals, a driver would also be "looking out for" potential "wet beds" that cause severe bounce or drops that cause the loco to bottom out on the suspension, or any other rail defects that might become apparent. Once the exit to the tunnel is in view, your eyes are drawn to the light and you start to take in all the same sort of things that you looked for on your approach - as well as looking out for people or livestock outside of the tunnel.

Drivers are often very good at "looking cool" or giving the impression to onlookers that what they are doing is easy. Believe me, they are ALL switched on at all times. Lives depend on it. If you make a mistake with hundreds or even thousands of tons behind you, someone is going to get hurt (or worse) and number one candidate on the list is the man at the front!

Cheers

Dave
 
An engineer should have a functional Bwain to intact wit' signals ... If you can not ..., then you are inept ... and can not operate a twian
 
This all seems to be getting far from the original request, which was for things an engineer must monitor while operating a train.

Trackage: Sun kinks in welded rail. Washouts and subsidence. Turnout state. Intrusions on right-of-way including vehicles and livestock (including bipeds,) speed change indications.

MsRailroad is setting up a study of visual perception, yes? How connected to conditioned or reasoned response is the study, out of curiosity?

:B~)
BA Psi


Thanks for the return! The study is one of distraction in the engineer. Trying to find a way to distract him/her with typical things that may be distracting (ie radio, paperwork etc), to where he/she may miss something that he/she should be visually looking at (my request was for the latter which you provided some good examples!)
 
It's called a BRAIN ...if you have no brain ... you are not an engineer qualified of operating a train ... If you are a distracted nimrod, you are not fit to be an engineer ... If you need AI (Artificial Intelligence) to fill in for your ineptness, you are a hazard to the railroad industry, and you should not drive a train
 
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Thanks for the return! The study is one of distraction in the engineer. Trying to find a way to distract him/her with typical things that may be distracting (ie radio, paperwork etc), to where he/she may miss something that he/she should be visually looking at (my request was for the latter which you provided some good examples!)

CyberDonGreen has given you a comprehensive tour, it would seem.

As a retired police dispatcher I'd observe that being called on the radio is not nearly as distracting as having to respond. One develops filters, liminal or otherwise, to pick out priority traffic. Having to frame an appropriate response can be distracting, but the officers I worked with were able to do so, drive at high speed through heavy traffic and mentally record the actions of a violator all at the same time.

On one occasion, two heavy freight trains collided and ran out over "my" highway, incidentally blocking several lanes of freeway while killing most of two train crews. If memory serves, one of the crews had been talking on a yard frequency while running on the main, and so, having only one speaker, failed to receive adequate warning of opposing traffic at a junction. The collision took place in sight of the approach signal bridge. There is a memorial marker at the location today.

Paperwork is the conductor's job, and the principle reason U.S. trains have them. However, the encroachment of unit trains with dedicated runs has reduced the number of conductors present....

:B~)
 
For pure distraction value, "There ain't nothin' like the female form." I recall many men being summoned to the bosses office in the UK summer months with regard to platform overruns or minor misdemeanours purely because the driver had been completely engrossed in the sight of a very attractive young lady revealing a whole lot more skin than one might expect to see in the winter months. Garden sunbathers too - in various states of undress from topless to totally naked - were the cause of more than a few minor "oversights." The location of such scantily clad, garden located, females very quickly became common knowledge in the messrooms and traincrews were primed and ready when in the "appropriate" district. Traffic in the area was inexplicably slowing down a little with signalmen often asking drivers, "Is there a problem at XYZ location?" before finally catching on that there was an "attraction" in the area. These ladies were fully aware of the attention too, often responding to the idiots who kept sounding the horn as they passed by waving enthusiastically and smiling broadly (yes, you get idiots working on the railway too.) Thanks to our idiot companions, it was often complaints from neighbours about the noise from the railway that brought about the curtailment of the attraction.

Call it what you want; nature, a break from the everyday comings and goings, anything you like, but the ladies will always be the biggest distraction in all forms of our lives. And it's not always the young and most obvious ones either.

Cheers

Dave
 
For pure distraction value, "There ain't nothin' like the female form." I recall many men being summoned to the bosses office in the UK summer months with regard to platform overruns or minor misdemeanours purely because the driver had been completely engrossed in the sight of a very attractive young lady revealing a whole lot more skin than one might expect to see in the winter months. Garden sunbathers too - in various states of undress from topless to totally naked - were the cause of more than a few minor "oversights." The location of such scantily clad, garden located, females very quickly became common knowledge in the messrooms and traincrews were primed and ready when in the "appropriate" district. Traffic in the area was inexplicably slowing down a little with signalmen often asking drivers, "Is there a problem at XYZ location?" before finally catching on that there was an "attraction" in the area. These ladies were fully aware of the attention too, often responding to the idiots who kept sounding the horn as they passed by waving enthusiastically and smiling broadly (yes, you get idiots working on the railway too.) Thanks to our idiot companions, it was often complaints from neighbours about the noise from the railway that brought about the curtailment of the attraction.

Call it what you want; nature, a break from the everyday comings and goings, anything you like, but the ladies will always be the biggest distraction in all forms of our lives. And it's not always the young and most obvious ones either.

Cheers

Dave



LOL!! This made my day.
 
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